The Truth About Property, 3/3

[Monopoly]

When I lived in Germany (Munich) I was staggered at how cheap renting was. You could rent a huge 3 bed apartment for less than £400 a month which would barely get you a 1 bed maisonette back home.

In Germany you are obliged to save for things but don't forget that you also have to pay to operate a bank account :angry: You can get free ones but then you will find it hard to access your cash without a debit card etc. Also the Germans don't do credit cards and virtually no shops take them. Shop assistants are incredibly rude and at the supermarket they throw the food down the till at you. Germans also never buy rounds which is a real pain in the backside when there's a group of you with everyone paying individually. I did love living there though and would go back if I got the chance.

My brothers flat is about 1/2 hour away from Hamburg and it has 150 qm with a big garden incl. a pond and he pays about £400 it was the first time I have seen it and I was speechless, have you seen the size of the living room ?

[Guest An Bearin Bui]

When I lived in Germany (Munich) I was staggered at how cheap renting was. You could rent a huge 3 bed apartment for less than £400 a month which would barely get you a 1 bed maisonette back home.

In Germany you are obliged to save for things but don't forget that you also have to pay to operate a bank account :angry: You can get free ones but then you will find it hard to access your cash without a debit card etc. Also the Germans don't do credit cards and virtually no shops take them. Shop assistants are incredibly rude and at the supermarket they throw the food down the till at you. Germans also never buy rounds which is a real pain in the backside when there's a group of you with everyone paying individually. I did love living there though and would go back if I got the chance.

Yes, I'm fully aware of all the downsides of living in Germany - I lived there too (Berlin) but there are ups and downs with all countries e.g. paying a lot of money to the Krankenkasse but on the upside getting great healthcare by actual experts instead of vaguely trained GPs. My point was mainly that renting can be done differently and the UK govt has a vested interest in not advertising the benefits of that too widely.

[lets get it right]

If anybody could buy land and build their own little make-shift house, hundreds and thousands of folks would be off doing it. She can't expect to be treated any differently. If she wants to be a self sufficient hippy, she can get a goat and move to Ardeche.

Funny how all the lovely English villages everyone thinks are just so quaint were all built long before planners were thought of.

Do you know when the modern planning system dates from?

If anybody could buy land and build their own little make-shift house, hundreds and thousands of folks would be off doing it.

Yep, and people have been doing it since the dawn of time. We wouldn't have a housing problem. You wouldn't spend all your life working like a dog just to pay for a few thousand bricks, some roof tiles and a few lengths of timber.

Can't you see the planning laws are designed to keep the majority of the population in servitude. Hope you enjoy your yoke.

Edited November 1, 2007 by Lets' get it right

[Compounded]

1930's i think, eliminating ribbon development and to stop the expansion of London were the reasons.

[Ah-so]

No..he is from NI..do you think he has an German accent?..Maybe he is coping me

You seem to have mixed your German and British accents together to end up doing a pretty good Geordie accent.

How about changing the door to the 2nd toilet to open outwards so that you can fit in? I am sure the landlord would understand.

[Confiteor]

Well done to PricedOut and the members appearing on TV. I think I recognise one HPCer on there, I won't say who!

Yep --- apart from the one who came out with "disincentivising".

[Confiteor]

What is it about Yvette Cooper that makes me want to give her a slap. I've never hit anyone in my life and would never strike a woman but she comes very very close.

Her face says "I understand exactly what you are saying but I am choosing to ignore that entirely, look you straight in the eyes and lie through my teeth and no-one is going to stop me"

A truly awful creature.

Is that with or without adding to the equation the fact that her and her blinky w@nky prickshit of a husband take tens of thousands of pounds of our money every year to pay their mortgage?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml.../26/nmps126.xml

I solemnly swear I would punch Ed Balls if I ever met him. What a coont

Edited November 2, 2007 by Confiteor

[Bloo Loo]

Disappointing and many points laboured to the point of boredom.

Supply and demand argument was the only "reason" for HPI illustrated.

looks like they ran out of ideas and just padded the show to fill the time.

[misfit]

Maybe its just me but I just can`t see how any of this could be construed as realistic, bearish or balanced? I think Andy Verity did a good job..of pretending to be a bear when he's clearly not one..

He has brought the main issues to the masses and as such they are now being debated outside this forum. There was a discussion on Radio 4 coupled with a survey saying it has never been a worse time to be 25 in the UK (I concur with this statement and no I am not 25). John Humphries asked for the view from a 60 year old who said he was reaping the rewards of an austere childhood (I think this was my Father) but the expert said this is not true and these issues brought to light by people such as Andy, Libby Potter and Max Flint etc need to be debated as we can not afford another brain drain similar to the one in the 1960's. I would also add Adam Curtis to that list if anyone watched his previous programmes. He was one of the first to show that the gap between rich and poor was growing ever wider and we have become a much less meritocratic society under Labour.

M

PS I could not agree more with Red Kharma about Yvette Cooper

[Monopoly]

About Yvette Cooper and her job as Housing Minister....we have a saying in Germany....."Den Bock zum Gaertner machen"....means as much to make the goat the gardener...thinking about that she and her husband filling their own pockets first and have really no interested to make housing affordable..because that would bring house prices down . I was invited to a question time with her and I had no interested to go..what's the point asking a perfect good question and get all that rubbish as an answer..I ask you.

How is that going to work anyhow..on the one hand the government says it will deliver affordable houses and on the other hand don't want prices to come down.

We have to get rid of the big developer and allow more self build..in Germany most people build their own house on a plot of land.

Edited November 2, 2007 by Monopoly

[Als]

The program was quite good this week. I thought it illustrated all of the competing interests really well. Even the NIMBYs were given their voice. But the conclusion for me was depressing. Because it showed what a mess the UK is. Either I can stay here and spend my life fighting. Or I can emigrate and live in peace once again.

[Malarkey]

I missed it last night. Is it repeated anywere else ?

[Discopants]

I missed it last night. Is it repeated anywere else ?

So did I can anyone you tube it ??

[rsootarsing]

What I didn't get about the show last night was why someone who "could afford" to pay 1,200 a month mortgage had a housing association house that he only has to pay 400 a month rent on.

I have approached housing assocations and have been told I earn too much to get anything.

[Monopoly]

I missed it last night. Is it repeated anywere else ?

Have a look here

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/7027874.stm

[The Generation Game]

Edit: Monopoly beat me to it!

Edited November 2, 2007 by The Generation Game

[Disillusioned]

It was a good bit of reporting, rather than a good bit of saying exactly what we at HPC.co.uk want to hear (though I do admit that I was a bit disappointed that there was so little regarding the effects of the credit crunch). I hope it HAS sparked debate elsewhere and made the public question their property-related decisions...

[Malarkey]

Have a look here

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/7027874.stm

Thank you .

[dpg50000]

One thing I found to be interesting was the planning process being held up not by conspiracies but by various groups of well meaning individuals whether it be the blue rinse poncenby-smythes or some student with a thing for worms.

Couldn't believe that. The silly biatch spent ages rummaging in a field for a crappy looking weed / flower. Eventually she found a bit of one buried under a pile of other weeds and got all excited. When the presenter asked her what significance this unimpressive specimen had, and why it should delay housebuilding (or words to that effect), the best she could come up with was "Well, it's, er, believed to be rare in Hampshire" or some other sh1t.

My blood was boiling......

[Austin Allegro]

It's daft to knock this programme. Six months ago, a programme like that on the BBC would have been unthinkable. It only looks bullish to us because we're used to reading this site - but imagine how the 'property only goes up, get on the ladder' types must have felt when they tuned in!

Did anyone else see any significance in the fact that Mr Verity was driving a frugal 25 year old van around instead of a blinged up MEWmobile like that Stavros bloke?

[madasafrog]

The program seemed to cover a lot of the aspects of the current housing market but there was a lack of coverage on any possible housing crash.

All the program did was demonstrate the lunacy of the current housing problems in the UK.

No real program has covered this subject with any detail. The max coverage on the media seems to be 5 mins on sky with financial planner

[Orbital]

for me it also highlighted some of the missed opportunities. Take the 36yr old who had been working for 16 years and living at home. He was an engineer with a "good wage". 16 years he had lived there. Probably paying his folks some money towards the cost of the place but prob not a huge amount. At the most it would be bills split 3 ways and a small mortgage. In reality his folks prob dont ask for much.

16 years.

Where did all his money go? He should have 200k in the bank. That would buy you a small terrace in my London suburb outright.

Edited November 6, 2007 by Orbital

[Monopoly]

for me it also highlighted some of the missed opportunities. Take the 36yr old who had been working for 16 years and living at home. He was an engineer with a "good wage". 16 years he had lived there. Probably paying his folks some money towards the cost of the place but prob not a huge amount. At the most it would be bills split 3 ways and a small mortgage. In reality his folks prob dont ask for much.

16 years.

Where did all his money go? He should have 200k in the bank. That would buy you a small terrace in my London suburb outright.

What..only a small terrace? No..your area is so cheap..I'm sure he gets a 3 bed det. for it

[pig]

Enough of the Yvette Cooper sl*gging off.

She is absoloutely right - the government shouldn't directly intervene in the housing market. But bearing in mind that the entire country will go to hell in a handbasket if something doesn't change, frankly she's in an uneviable position on this.

Best consider the more subtle points in the programme.

I coudln't help thinking about the German situation - what do you think would happen if they had the same sort of rules over here ? Not I emphasise to do with influencing the housing market but purely on the grounds of ensuring the population have a decent and happily settled homelife. Surely the cornerstone of any govenment policy and defensible against any of the below 'collateral damage'.

Indirectly, would this put off the Btl brigade ? would this make renting much more attractive to otherwise home-owners ? What therefore would the collateral affect be on the house market ? On the other hand what unwanted effects might this have...

The woman on a pig-farm did not have a leg to stand on. The councilors/neighbours who pointed out that you can't have a rule for one and another for others were absolutely right. But the wonderful thing about the programme is that I supported the pig farmer 100%.

With an understanding of all their backgrounds and in the context of the programme, putting all the parties round the table was genius, and it made one thing clear. Yes credit issues are a part of this whole mess, but planning obstacles have not only helped create a sort of impregnable Noahs ark of myopic property owners but an accompanying flood to drown the rest of us.

[muggle]

Although the series could have been better, one point that did come across very well.

Those who own property outright (either because they bought their houses before the recent boom, or because they got a council house on the cheap) are sitting pretty.

If you are trying to buy a house in the UK now, you are stuffed.