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Ftb's Beware!....................................


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of........................................................Housepricecrash.co.uk

FTB's should be aware that this forum is largley populated with members who are super bears of the Housing market. In some ways they remind me of Johovahs witnesses, its always coming, but yet it never arrives. They are Hypocritical - every market commentator who makes a remotely bullish statement is attacked and shot down in flames as a 'vested interest'. "Of course he would say that, his livelihood depends upon the future of the market" bla bla bla. The truth is that most of the people who started this most ridiculous argument are infact STR's and have taken a huge gamble in selling up and waiting, and waiting, and waiting, and waiting, they too have vested interest in the future of the market.

Some of the people on this forum spend literally hundreds of hours a month discussing this topic with one another and debating the future of the market in hope of a drop in prices, they know their stuff don't get me wrong but this does not qualify them to tell FTB coming on to this site what to do with their life and their money.

So my message to FTB's is a simple one: do what is right for you. Often an article will appear in the press saying that 2005 is a great time to buy because the prices have dropped a little, its suggested by the bears that such an articles single purpose is to influence FTBs into purchasing to keep the market alive. I suggest that the purpose of the bears on HPC is exactly the same: to influence the FTB into not buying and hence contribute to a potential crash to line THEIR pockets, they have much to lose and much to gain. If you want a home which you may decorate and refurbish to your requirements, a home which you may spend many happy years without the worry of having to move because your lease has expired, a home where you can repay on a retirement investment, then my advice to you is whilst being cautious and getting the best deal you can do not let some scaremongering internet forum and its members persuade you to put YOUR life on hold.

Now don't get me wrong I'm not suggesting that the market will rise, or even stagnate but that any drop in prices will be a long long slow slow process in which you have your life on hold and await with great hope each month for some company's monthly update on 'the market'. I know because I have been there as a former Bear of this forum.

In the emortal words of Irvine Welsh: Choose Life.

oh one more thing: Expect this post to get torn to bits in no time at all, remember these people have the same circular arguments every day and have done for some time, its all well practiced spele.

Pin that moderator!!!!

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of........................................................Housepricecrash.co.uk

FTB's should be aware that this forum is largley populated with members who are super bears of the Housing market. In some ways they remind me of Johovahs witnesses, its always coming, but yet it never arrives. They are Hypocritical - every market commentator who makes a remotely bullish statement is attacked and shot down in flames as a 'vested interest'. "Of course he would say that, his livelihood depends upon the future of the market" bla bla bla. The truth is that most of the people who started this most ridiculous argument are infact STR's and have taken a huge gamble in selling up and waiting, and waiting, and waiting, and waiting, they too have vested interest in the future of the market.

Some of the people on this forum spend literally hundreds of hours a month discussing this topic with one another and debating the future of the market in hope of a drop in prices, they know their stuff don't get me wrong but this does not qualify them to tell FTB coming on to this site what to do with their life and their money.

So my message to FTB's is a simple one: do what is right for you. Often an article will appear in the press saying that 2005 is a great time to buy because the prices have dropped a little, its suggested by the bears that such an articles single purpose is to influence FTBs into purchasing to keep the market alive. I suggest that the purpose of the bears on HPC is exactly the same: to influence the FTB into not buying and hence contribute to a potential crash to line THEIR pockets, they have much to lose and much to gain. If you want a home which you may decorate and refurbish to your requirements, a home which you may spend many happy years without the worry of having to move because your lease has expired, a home where you can repay on a retirement investment, then my advice to you is whilst being cautious and getting the best deal you can do not let some scaremongering internet forum and its members persuade you to put YOUR life on hold. 

Now don't get me wrong I'm not suggesting that the market will rise, or even stagnate but that any drop in prices will be a long long slow slow process in which you have your life on hold and await with great hope each month for some company's monthly update on 'the market'. I know because I have been there as a former Bull of this forum.

In the emortal words of Irvine Welsh: Choose Life.

oh one more thing: Expect this post to get torn to bits in no time at all, remember these people have the same circular arguments every day and have done for some time, its all well practiced spele.

Pin that moderator!!!!

The advice of some of the long standing bears on this board convinced me to advise my son not to buy last Summer, despite the more common view that he should. Looking at the price falls in my area (Essex London border) since then I reckon they've saved him precious thousands. I'm going to carry on listening to both sides, but so far the Bears have reasoned arguments whereas the Bulls have said absolutely nothing to convince me (e.g. read Dogbox posts - he's selling his flat!)

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Thanks for your concern.. however in my own set of circumstances, i wouldn't be on this website in the first place if there wasn't any problem with the house market.

But there is, a huge one, namley in that i cant afford in property in the town that i live and work in. So choosing life in terms of buying a property and settling down isn't really an option.

So, this website, despite having its extreme views on both sides, is a useful point where information is collected. Believe me, i make up my own mind about stuff. This website is just giving me a chance to look before i leap.

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Thanks for your concern.. however in my own set of circumstances, i wouldn't be on this website in the first place if there wasn't any problem with the house market.

But there is, a huge one, namley in that i cant afford in property in the town that i live and work in. So choosing life in terms of buying a property and settling down isn't really an option.

So, this website, despite having its extreme views on both sides, is a useful point where information is collected. Believe me, i make up my own mind about stuff. This website is just giving me a chance to look before i leap.

And thats great!!! This isn't an anti-HPC thread its a don't be drawn in and scared into living your life and building your future thread. I appreciate that everyones circumstances are different and buying right now would not be the right move for everyone but for some IMO it would be.

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I have to ask why someone tries to debunk a forum that is the only opposing view to the mainstream "prices will always rise".

We offer the advice. We are not all STR's (For the record I did sell and now rent), there are many potential first time buyers on this site.

We are not forcing anyone not to buy.

People are big enough to make their own decisions.

So I suggest if you want to influence them then you bring some facts to the forum and not just a blatant "they are all crazy vested interests in this forum so don't bother".

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A good post Keefter and we should bear (get it) in mind that everyone has a vested interest in this market, we all need somewhere to live, unlike stock and share which we don;t have to buy or trade.

As a FTB I generally use this site to keep myself from going insane and to keep myself from making IMO a very big mistake and buying at the top of the market.

I think the problem is sometimes it gets a bit too inflamitary and a bit abusive, Bulls and Bears sometime need to just argue the points rather than slag eachother off! lets keep to grown up debate.

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I have to ask why someone tries to debunk a forum that is the only opposing view to the mainstream "prices will always rise".

We offer the advice. We are not all STR's (For the record I did sell and now rent), there are many potential first time buyers on this site.

We are not forcing anyone not to buy.

People are big enough to make their own decisions.

So I suggest if you want to influence them then you bring some facts to the forum and not just a blatant "they are all crazy vested interests in this forum so don't bother".

Read the post and understand the point of it before you respond.

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A good post Keefter and we should bear (get it) in mind that everyone has a vested interest in this market, we all need somewhere to live, unlike stock and share which we don;t have to buy or trade.

As a FTB I generally use this site to keep myself from going insane and to keep myself from making IMO a very big mistake and buying at the top of the market.

I think the problem is sometimes it gets a bit too inflamitary and a bit abusive, Bulls and Bears sometime need to just argue the points rather than slag eachother off! lets keep to grown up debate.

LOL at the pun. You are correct the two veiws are very extreme, complete opposites of the spectrum, this is part of the problem.

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Now don't get me wrong I'm not suggesting that the market will rise, or even stagnate but that any drop in prices will be a long long slow slow process in which you have your life on hold and await with great hope each month for some company's monthly update on 'the market'. I know because I have been there as a former Bear of this forum.

What a pointless post Keefter. Don't listen to the advice on this site because it is too bearish but at the same time you state 'I'm not suggesting that the market will rise, or even stagnate but that any drop in prices will be a long long slow slow process'. I'd say that's pretty bearish.

I appreciate that everyones circumstances are different and buying right now would not be the right move for everyone but for some IMO it would be.

..but you don't think the market will rise or even stagnate but fall. When is buying in a falling market the right move for anybody!!!?????

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FTBs just keep in mind the fundamentals as it is they that under - pin and steer the market;

Affordability equates to about just over 1/3 take - home income. There are loads of properties available that u can afford. Consider interest only for a few years.

Rates are low and u can fix

The economy isnt about to pop and there is no fundamental ECONOMIC JOLT to cause a crash. Bears said we would go into long - term decline thru the 1980s - 1990s as Japan mopped - up much of our manufacturing base. Buy we are a massive over - seas investor so we still control the purse regardless of out - sourcing. This floods the economy with wealth that permeattes through the UK

Demand is historically high what with immigration, B2L, singles and parents buying

Renting as most of u know is almost as expensive as a mortgage

Mortgages are easy to come by, just shop around until u get what u want

The longer u hold - off the more u will pay. Go and see if those Xmas bargains have gone - I bet they have.

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Keefter,

My advice to FTBers and particularly those FTBs who are new to this website is that house prices are so ridiculously over-priced that you need psychiatric treatment to buy into this crazy market. The market is in a speculative frenzy where greedy vendors are trying to rip people off. Don't rise to the bait. FTBers will have to wait for the crash in order for house prices to reach normal levels. Anybody who suggests that you should buy now should have their eyes drilled out.

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"a home which you may spend many happy years without the worry of having to move because your lease has expired, a home where you can repay on a retirement investment, then my advice to you is whilst being cautious and getting the best deal you can do not let some scaremongering internet forum and its members persuade you to put YOUR life on hold. "

If thats your criteria for having a life I feel a bit sad for you.

Theres a lot more out than than buying a property at completely the wrong time.

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What a pointless post Keefter. Don't listen to the advice on this site because it is too bearish but at the same time you state 'I'm not suggesting that the market will rise, or even stagnate but that any drop in prices will be a long long slow slow process'. I'd say that's pretty bearish.

..but you don't think the market will rise or even stagnate but fall. When is buying in a falling market the right move for anybody!!!?????

Whether the post is pointless or not is very much opinion, but thanks anyway.

When did I say don't listen to the advice of the bears? - I didn't.

It may have escaped your attention right honorable brainwashee but not everyone buys a property as an investment some of us actually buy as a home to live in, so your fundamental rule of investment - When is buying in a falling market the right move for anybody - really doesn't apply.

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"a home which you may spend many happy years without the worry of having to move because your lease has expired, a home where you can repay on a retirement investment, then my advice to you is whilst being cautious and getting the best deal you can do not let some scaremongering internet forum and its members persuade you to put YOUR life on hold. "

If thats your criteria for having a life I feel a bit sad for you.

Theres a lot more out than than buying a property at completely the wrong time.

In the context of this thread and the HPC forum yes that is my criteria. For a more detailed set of criteria and parameters on a having a life see keeftersguidetogettingalife.com. Honestly.

'Theres a lot more out than than buying a property at completely the wrong time'

Thats exactly my point well done for incapsulating it so well.

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For what it's worth...

...my opinions on this site are that between it and nethouseprice com it has probably saved me 10k and counting in the last 8 months.

It has certainly given me an edge over Joe Public and been instrumental in educating me about house prices, the economy and vested interests...things I knew next to nothing about before I started looking to buy.

As reference points go you could do A LOT worse than use the site as a compass bearing. The worst it encourages people to do is wait and see.

If they dont want to wait that's up to them. I will say this however, if you are reading this site and it is your sole source of info on housing then that is foolish.

Without 1st hand experience of the market you will not get a genuine picture of what is going on. Noone can do that except you. You have to look at the EAs, go to viewings and see exactly what vendors' mentality is. In the area I am looking in I can tell you that most are still in denial and are not motivated to sell in the stagnant market.

So sure, take on board what you read here and use it as a compass for your own investigations.

My only other advice to FTBs reading this is that you need to clear your debts and start saving NOW. Don't wait for the newspapers to say "we are in a houseprice crash" because a) you could be waiting forever and B) by the time those sort of headlines happen it will be too late.

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When did I say don't listen to the advice of the bears? - I didn't.

It may have escaped your attention right honorable brainwashee but not everyone buys a property as an investment some of us actually buy as a home to live in, so your fundamental rule of investment - When is buying in a falling market the right move for anybody - really doesn't apply.

The title of your post was 'don't listen to the bears' in all but words.

Agree - we all need a roof over our head but if you believe that houses are overpriced and are going to fall is the desire to have your own home enough of a reason to buy one??

The implications of buying now (if prices do fall a lot) are huge. You will be paying far more in interest and payments for the mortgage for the rest of your life. Money otherwise saved for retirement or used to pay off the mortgage sooner so you aren't caught out in the future if you lose your job (likely to happen to most of us in our lifetimes).

Also what about NE. Buy now and as soon as you've moved in you're in NE - you can't move and you can't switch mortgages thus will be paying bank SVRs after your initial introductory period.

Your viewpoint is expressed by the thousands of financially uneducated that continue to buy property, anyone using this site has a chance to be shown another side of the VI crap - you'd be wise to listen to some of these Super Bears!

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So you think prices are still rising? Why are you selling your investment flat  then?

For the 700th time, Ive had to sell 3 or possibly 4 so that I can diversify into commercial property as this IMO should produce an even better return and it suits my own business to have additional premises available.

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Keefter,

My advice to FTBers and particularly those FTBs who are new to this website is that house prices are so ridiculously over-priced that you need psychiatric treatment to buy into this crazy market. The market is in a speculative frenzy where greedy vendors are trying to rip people off. Don't rise to the bait. FTBers will have to wait for the crash in order for house prices to reach normal levels. Anybody who suggests that you should buy now should have their eyes drilled out.

Touched a raw nerve Bruno?

Bruno Powroznik - is an independent economist and property expert - what hell does a propery expert do exactly?

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Again, valid points from minimula.

On the subject of NE and the problems of selling on my advice to fellow FTBs would be if you are going to buy DO NOT buy somewhere which only FTB's would want to buy.

ie. DO NOT buy a 1 bed/studio flat or somewhere that is only suitable for single peope.

Reason being, is that if you are going to buy now (or this year) accept the possibility that prices may well go down.

If that is the case you are going to want to ride out the crash. A little future proofing is required (families can happen) and when it comes to selling if the only peolpe who would want to buy your place are single FTBs then you're more likley to get suckered.

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On the subject of NE and the problems of selling on my advice to fellow FTBs would be if you are going to buy DO NOT buy somewhere which only FTB's would want to buy.

ie. DO NOT buy a 1 bed/studio flat or somewhere that is only suitable for single peope.

That's all very well DD but FTBs have disappeared from the market because they can't afford the studios or 1-bed flats. Therefore how are they going to afford to skip the FTB properties?

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The title of your post was 'don't listen to the bears' in all but words.

Agree - we all need a roof over our head but if you believe that houses are overpriced and are going to fall is the desire to have your own home enough of a reason to buy one??

The implications of buying now (if prices do fall a lot) are huge. You will be paying far more in interest and payments for the mortgage for the rest of your life. Money otherwise saved for retirement or used to pay off the mortgage sooner so you aren't caught out in the future if you lose your job (likely to happen to most of us in our lifetimes).

Also what about NE. Buy now and as soon as you've moved in you're in NE - you can't move and you can't switch mortgages thus will be paying bank SVRs after your initial introductory period.

Your viewpoint is expressed by the thousands of financially uneducated that continue to buy property, anyone using this site has a chance to be shown another side of the VI crap - you'd be wise to listen to some of these Super Bears!

You're boring me mate, but I'll humor you with a response.

'The title of your post was 'don't listen to the bears' in all but words' - errr but that wasn't the words was it!! - I said 'beware of' not 'don't listen to' the definition of bware is to be cautious; exert caution.

'Agree - we all need a roof over our head but if you believe that houses are overpriced and are going to fall is the desire to have your own home enough of a reason to buy one??'

'The implications of buying now (if prices do fall a lot) are huge. You will be paying far more in interest and payments for the mortgage for the rest of your life. Money otherwise saved for retirement or used to pay off the mortgage sooner so you aren't caught out in the future if you lose your job (likely to happen to most of us in our lifetimes)'

If is the important word in both of your paragraphs above.

The generalisation that most of us will lose our job at some point in our life about sums up your cynicism in life.

'Your viewpoint is expressed by the thousands of financially uneducated that continue to buy property, anyone using this site has a chance to be shown another side of the VI crap - you'd be wise to listen to some of these Super Bears!'

What veiwpoint is that then? that the market will fall. LOL

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For the 700th time, Ive had to sell 3 or possibly 4 so that I can diversify into commercial property as this IMO should produce an even better return and it suits my own business to have additional premises available.

Well, if I were you I'd keep the flats (they're still going up according to you) and borrow the money for the new venture - you should make a killing.

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  • 439 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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