Why Is Nr Still With Us?

[BoomBoom]

This company should be dead in the water and the shares should be trading for pennies by now. Only today they had the begging bowl out again asking for me BoE money, and still the market treats this company as if it s viable. Crazy.

[crash 2005]

This company should be dead in the water and the shares should be trading for pennies by now. Only today they had the begging bowl out again asking for me BoE money, and still the market treats this company as if it s viable. Crazy.

Trouble is the government would have egg on their face if it colapsed now with public money ie BOE £13bn propping it up.

I see Bradford & bingley shares have fallen quite dramatically over the last 12 months also, almost similar in value to NR now, when will the run start on them...........probably when NR are history.

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/fds/hi/...welve_month.stm

Edited October 16, 2007 by crash 2005

[BoomBoom]

But in effect the NR board have admitted that without BoE cash the company is not viable. If this was a business in any other sector it would have gone to the wall.

[Mr Nice]

But in effect the NR board have admitted that without BoE cash the company is not viable. If this was a business in any other sector it would have gone to the wall.

not necessarily. Many businesses go into bankruptcy, trade for a few pennies for the dollar, then come out of it with fairly

strong earnings and valuations.

This is just kind of their bankruptcy phase.

Edited October 16, 2007 by Mr Nice

[BoomBoom]

not necessarily. Many businesses go into bankruptcy, trade for a dew pennies for the dollar, then come out of it with fairly

strong earnings and valuations.

This is just kind of their bankruptcy phase.

Oh come on. Their business model is dead in the water, their loan book is most probably poison, and they are being kept afloat by huge injections of *our* money.

[Smell the Fear]

Oh come on. Their business model is dead in the water, their loan book is most probably poison, and they are being kept afloat by huge injections of *our* money.

The business model has run into temporary problems which will resolve once investors see that the housing crash isn't happening (give it a few months and they will be convinced).

The loan book is one of the best performing in the UK so why assume it is "poison"? Surely others are more likely to see big defaults on this basis?

They are being lent money secured against collateral (mainly their superb loan book), and are being charged a punitive IR for this service. The BoE is making a profit on this deal!

[margesimpson]

Oh come on. Their business model is dead in the water, their loan book is most probably poison, and they are being kept afloat by huge injections of *our* money.

It's actually a very profitable business - why would its shares trade for pennies?

[Smell the Fear]

It's actually a very profitable business - why would its shares trade for pennies?

The bears seem to have gone quiet on this.

A major problem for many hpc bears is the fact that they have lost the ability to think for themselves (if they ever had it in the first place). They come here to pick up neatly potted points of view which they rote learn for later regurgitation.

[BoomBoom]

What is there to comment on? You're spouting nonsense that has no relation to the facts of the matter. Your petulant conversion to 'bull' was the result of things not happening as quickly as you wanted.

Edited October 16, 2007 by BoomBoom

[Gone baby gone]

It's actually a very profitable business - why would its shares trade for pennies?

Because it's business model is broken and it would not be able to continue if the government had not stepped in? Face it, if this was any other business the government would have just walked away. Because NR is a bank, they cannot afford the loss of confidence that stems from a banking failure of these proportions.

[Rover]

The bears seem to have gone quiet on this.

A major problem for many hpc bears is the fact that they have lost the ability to think for themselves (if they ever had it in the first place). They come here to pick up neatly potted points of view which they rote learn for later regurgitation.

Steady on there Beefy.

Who is currently paying for all their staff?

It has no capital - none.

If their mortgage book is so strong, how come their are no eager buyers?

Basically, it was a great business in a rising market. But in a falling market it's a dead man walking. See all the investment banks quarterly results.....

See all the associated stocks over the last year - pick me a winner.

[Gone baby gone]

The bears seem to have gone quiet on this.

A major problem for many hpc bears is the fact that they have lost the ability to think for themselves (if they ever had it in the first place). They come here to pick up neatly potted points of view which they rote learn for later regurgitation.

I guess most of them have you on ignore. The only reason I haven't is that I have a twisted sense of humor and love to watch a master troll in action.

[punter]

Because it's business model is broken and it would not be able to continue if the government had not stepped in? Face it, if this was any other business the government would have just walked away. Because NR is a bank, they cannot afford the loss of confidence that stems from a banking failure of these proportions.

this is the reason why Branson is getting involved, he LOVES subsidised businesses where there's a supposed "public interest" in propping the enterprise up i.e railways, he's on to a sure thing and he knows it

all he has to do is warn about 5000 jobs in the NE going up the swanny and the BoE will be there with a new line of cheap credit for him to sell on to customers

[Bloo Loo]

NO Branson isnt in, hes just sniffin around- the model doesnt work otherwise theyd be in business without help, they cant get finance except from the BoE, the BoE may be left with a load of newish mortgages, most of which could be SubPrime, and are too early in their lives for defaults to have started.

Its finished, it needs to die quietly in a corner with minimum fuss or sheeple will get nervy again.

Its a financial cover up, and the crash hasnt even started yet in the UK

[dirge]

Geordies don't go down easy you should know this. Southern Puffs like Barings Bank just need a quick slap before they are knocked the ****** out.

I'm surprised Adam Applegarth didn't stich the Treasury Select Committee with his oddly shaped baigee.

[adren]

not necessarily. Many businesses go into bankruptcy, trade for a few pennies for the dollar, then come out of it with fairly

strong earnings and valuations.

This is just kind of their bankruptcy phase.

Yes, as it is, on balance, in the public interest for the body corporate that is NRK to continue.

However - consider what happened with Marconi:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/09/27/ma...ares_worthless/

And Eurotunnel:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...751C0A9629C8B63

Basically, a new suitor arrives, kicks the tyres, says "listen, mate, I'll take it off your hands for a fiver", buys the company outright at 0.0000001p a share or perhaps buys a kazillion new shares at 1p a pop - majicked into existence by the current board "in the interests of the company", diluting the existing shareholders into oblivion. Then it either assets strips it or refinances it to give it a breathing space, or both. Either way the incumbent shareholders have a knack of coming out with very close to zilch.

And yes, I do have STF on "ignore". The only other is PG.

Europa and CO wind me up but at least they are reasonably pleasant and willing to abide by the rules of civilised debate. RB on the other hand is a national treasure. Mad as a tree but still a national treasure.

[R K]

NO Branson isnt in, hes just sniffin around- the model doesnt work otherwise theyd be in business without help, they cant get finance except from the BoE, the BoE may be left with a load of newish mortgages, most of which could be SubPrime, and are too early in their lives for defaults to have started.

Its finished, it needs to die quietly in a corner with minimum fuss or sheeple will get nervy again.

Its a financial cover up, and the crash hasnt even started yet in the UK

I think Branson is in, but he will make sure he gets some sort of ongoing guarantee from the BoE and I strongly suspect some of the loans, which were planned to be sold off via their "Granite" securitisation program, will be hived off into a separate company.

The model "nearly" works. i.e. If they had been less agressive over growth (20% p.a. isn't sustainable long-term) and had less reliance on short-term borrowing.

I agree with you on the quality of their recent lending. Applepie said today the average life of their loans are 3.1 years and 60% of their lending, by value (I think) has been made within the last 2 years. So, most of the customers remortgage/refix before they could possibly get into financial difficulties. They have been their own ponzi scheme, so I think the default rates should be veiwed with extreme caution.

What Branson gets is the chance to cherry pick a substantial retail deposit/mortgage business which complements his credit card and pensions business. He is smart enough to make sure he pays less than it is worth and ring-fences the liabilities. He has no need to grow the business at 20% p.a. into the future, he can simply use it as a cash cow generating a decent margin, and then in a few years sell it on at a profit. In any event, he isn't funding it, the funding is coming from AIG and others, so if it is anything like his other businesses the risk to him will be fairly small.

[Rover]

STR is either a troll or an idiot. I suspect the former.

But we should keep him, purely for amusement.

[Smell the Fear]

STR is either a troll or an idiot. I suspect the former.

But we should keep him, purely for amusement.

Which STR? There are many of them on this site, and they are all idiots who have thrown away hundreds of thousands of pounds in the past couple of years.

[Tartaglia]

Borrowing short and lending long, only works if you have a positive yield curve, and can guarantee your creditors will roll over their loans to you.

This is a classic mismatch of asset and liability duration, which was OK as long you can securitise your loans.

Given that their have been 20 odd credit crunches in the last 200 years, clearly only a fool rolls up to the treasury select committee" and says that the credit conditions of August 07 were impossible to anticipate

[Rover]

Which STR? There are many of them on this site, and they are all idiots who have thrown away hundreds of thousands of pounds in the past couple of years.

QED. Amusing, in an embarrassing drunk uncle, kind of way.

[Smell the Fear]

QED. Amusing, in an embarrassing drunk uncle, kind of way.

You are indeed! At least you have a sense of humour about it.

[Converted Lurker]

and you know that big fukc off orifice up in the N.E? Well it's only currently handling approx. 100 new mortgage enquiries a day, amongst an army of thousands Hardly suprising given they keep; upping rates, slashing proc. fees. and lowering LTVs They have admitted today that the brand is dead and their previous model on which they built their stellar success can never be replicated

http://firstrung.co.uk/articles.asp?pageid...articlekey=7927

[Rover]

Thanks Unc, give the brandy a rest though. And that hand knitted tank top can go back in cupboard.

[dubsie]

This company should be dead in the water and the shares should be trading for pennies by now. Only today they had the begging bowl out again asking for me BoE money, and still the market treats this company as if it s viable. Crazy.

Well it's simple. There's a deal on the table for people like Virgin Money, and it's a bargain. Anyone with Shares in NR is going to lose all there investment. Basically they are writing off the value of the company, in exchange Virgin will repay BOE and make a lot of money from the £140 billion worth of NR assets. There is also a £80 sub prime bail out on the table for all banks. They will probably break up NR and sell off the best debts to other lenders and claim on the sub prime ones.