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basildonian

Money, Money, Money: The History Of Cash

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Double page spread in today's Independent. Covers the history of currency, the Gold Standard, Fiat Currency and future 'cashless' payment systems.

It's quite an interesting summary of the history of money with some subtle humour thrown in. It even has something for the conspiracy theorists - The last two sentences:

"Either way, you will be being monitored. Money is what money does, according to the old adage. And in the future, your money may even spy on you."

http://money.independent.co.uk/personal_fi...icle3065040.ece

Baz

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Double page spread in today's Independent. Covers the history of currency, the Gold Standard, Fiat Currency and future 'cashless' payment systems.

It's quite an interesting summary of the history of money with some subtle humour thrown in. It even has something for the conspiracy theorists - The last two sentences:

"Either way, you will be being monitored. Money is what money does, according to the old adage. And in the future, your money may even spy on you."

http://money.independent.co.uk/personal_fi...icle3065040.ece

Baz

AH! Proof that my whisky bottle full of pennies at home does look at me in a suspicious way. And there's me thinking I was paranoid.

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The article fails to mention the most important and damaging aspect of our present money supply - that it is, apart from the physical cash issued debt-free by the government, debt-based and privately issued into society at interest.

Think about this:

We are charged interest by the private issuing banks for the very existence of the vast bulk of our means of exchange.

If we ever go to a completely cashless system, then ALL our means of exchange will be lent to us at interest. Humanity will be perpetual debt-slaves to the global banking system. This is NOT a conspiracy theory - it is irrefutable mathematics.

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This is NOT a conspiracy theory - it is irrefutable mathematics.

No, not a conspiracy theory - rather wild baseless conjecture. There is *ABSOLUTELY* no reason that all money must be owed... It is entirely possible, in principle, to earn money from people who start with a positive balance... Only when you are paid by people who have to borrow do you have debt!

Blimey - it's not a hard concept.

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No, not a conspiracy theory - rather wild baseless conjecture. There is *ABSOLUTELY* no reason that all money must be owed... It is entirely possible, in principle, to earn money from people who start with a positive balance... Only when you are paid by people who have to borrow do you have debt!

Blimey - it's not a hard concept.

Erm... in broad terms he's correct. Debt free money in the UK economy amounts to only about 3% of the total sloshing around at any one time. Yes, it is possible that you could work for or start a business financed entirely from this 3% but over the whole economy it isn't very likely. More likely, on average, is that the money you earn/borrow is in the ratio 3:97 debt free:interest payable.

Edited by sossij

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No, not a conspiracy theory - rather wild baseless conjecture. There is *ABSOLUTELY* no reason that all money must be owed... It is entirely possible, in principle, to earn money from people who start with a positive balance... Only when you are paid by people who have to borrow do you have debt!

Blimey - it's not a hard concept.

Asteve,

ALL the non-physical money now in circulation was originally borrowed into the system, overwhelmingly from comercial banks. Somewhere in the system is the debt corresponding to that borrowed money, and this debt grows with interest.

OF COURSE there are lots of people with positive balances, but their money, irrespective of how they acquired it, ORIGINATED with an (initially) equal and opposite debt. This is why, collectively, Sterling users now owe about £800,000,000,000 MORE than the money supply.

This may seem absurd (it is) but that's the way it is. The sum of all positive balances MUST be smaller than the sum of all negative balances (i.e. debt). This is a mathematical property of the system.

To see this, think of the system as a whole, not of individual bank balances.

Edited by love Mises to pieces

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Asteve,

ALL the non-physical money now in circulation was originally borrowed into the system, overwhelmingly from comercial banks. Somewhere in the system is the debt corresponding to that borrowed money, and this debt grows with interest.

OF COURSE there are lots of people with positive balances, but their money, irrespective of how they acquired it, ORIGINATED with an (initially) equal and opposite debt. This is why, collectively, Sterling users now owe about £800,000,000,000 MORE than the money supply.

This may seem absurd (it is) but that's the way it is. The sum of all positive balances MUST be smaller than the sum of all negative balances (i.e. debt). This is a mathematical property of the system.

To see this, think of the system as a whole, not of individual bank balances.

This seems like balls to me. How can you say that the physical money wasn't borrowed into existence? The paper money simply is simply a physical representation of the digital, borrowed-into-existence money in your bank account. The BoE supply the high street banks with enough of this printed stuff to meet the needs of the public (i.e. enough so that when someone who has a positive bank balance or overdraft wants to withdraw they can).

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do they have to invent debt based money to account for the steady increase in population

whats the alternative - a fixed amount of money that is shared by an increasing number of people from one generation to the next?

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