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gruffydd

Half Of French Households Pay No Income Tax At All.

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Huh, I thought the Anglo-American model was the low tax model. :rolleyes: No wonder so many Brits are relocating over there.

"There is another potentially big advantage to the French system of income tax: it applies to the household not the individual. So, the more members of the household, the smaller the tax bill. Marjorie Mansfield of Siddalls, a specialist financial adviser, said: "The system can greatly reduce your income tax bill, particularly if you have children. In fact, almost half of French households pay no income tax at all."

Edited by gruffydd

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I think the owners of pets should be charged tax, horses and dogs use public facilities, they should pay for them.

Cats however should be free of charge, as they are of benefit to the community catching mice and looking clean and smart each day.

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Huh, I thought the Anglo-American model was the low tax model. :rolleyes: No wonder so many Brits are relocating over there.

"There is another potentially big advantage to the French system of income tax: it applies to the household not the individual. So, the more members of the household, the smaller the tax bill. Marjorie Mansfield of Siddalls, a specialist financial adviser, said: "The system can greatly reduce your income tax bill, particularly if you have children. In fact, almost half of French households pay no income tax at all."

Have you got a link?

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I think the owners of pets should be charged tax, horses and dogs use public facilities, they should pay for them.

Cats however should be free of charge, as they are of benefit to the community catching mice and looking clean and smart each day.

I would go further. The government should provide a cat allowance of 50 pounds per week (per cat)

to assist with the associated costs of cat ownership, food, string etc.

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Huh, I thought the Anglo-American model was the low tax model. :rolleyes: No wonder so many Brits are relocating over there.

"There is another potentially big advantage to the French system of income tax: it applies to the household not the individual. So, the more members of the household, the smaller the tax bill. Marjorie Mansfield of Siddalls, a specialist financial adviser, said: "The system can greatly reduce your income tax bill, particularly if you have children. In fact, almost half of French households pay no income tax at all."

What percentage of British households do you think don't pay income tax - including those who do, but get more back in tax credits?

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In France you get a reduction in income tax based on how many children you have. They introduced this to get the birth rate back up. It's worked so far, France has a birth rate of 1.96 which is one of the highest in Europe.

They should do something like that here. It could be funded by reducing benefits for those families not working and having lots of children.

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Nonsense, people having babies will have less time to work for the good of the state and be economically less productive. Better to import cheap workers to do crap jobs that pay bugger all and drive down wage inflation while at the same time creating more households to drive up the housing market and create social discord

As for cats, all owners should pay a cattax of £1 per day to subidise dog owners

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In France you get a reduction in income tax based on how many children you have. They introduced this to get the birth rate back up. It's worked so far, France has a birth rate of 1.96 which is one of the highest in Europe.

They should do something like that here. It could be funded by reducing benefits for those families not working and having lots of children.

Not a good idea..the fertility rate among Pakistani Britons is already 4 times higher than everyone else...I suspect the large North African immigrant community in France must have something to do with the high birth rates there

I think the Chinese system, where everyone planning to have kids is required to obtain a 'birth permit', should be introduced here & families should be means tested before being allowed to have children. Single/teenage mothers or their kids born without a birth permit should not be allowed access to public funds..I know low birth rates are not good for the country in the long term but we certainly don`t need more chav/DSS scum or future suicide bombers..

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Not a good idea..the fertility rate among Pakistani Britons is already 4 times higher than everyone else...I suspect the large North African immigrant community in France must have something to do with the high birth rates there

I think the Chinese system, where everyone planning to have kids is required to obtain a 'birth permit', should be introduced here & families should be means tested before being allowed to have children. Single/teenage mothers or their kids born without a birth permit should not be allowed access to public funds..I know low birth rates are not good for the country in the long term but we certainly don`t need more chav/DSS scum or future suicide bombers..

Think about it a little bit. I'm talking about a reduction in Income Tax for larger families. By definition you pay Income Tax if you have an income (i.e. are a productive member of society). It won't encourage the chavs.

If you then decrease (or at least don't increase) benefits for chavs if they have more children then this will remove the incentive for them to breed / make them get a job.

Re: ethnic minority famililes. The birth rates for recently arrived migrants tend to be high but they do drop with the 2nd / 3rd generation. Anyway, many of the migrants will be in low paid jobs and thus pay very little income tax anyway and thus wouldn't benefit from the income tax reduction. The reduced / non-increasing benefits for more children would also encourage smaller family sizes for them.

I don't like the 'stick' methods of birth control. The poster mentioning China as an example to be followed should be shot. I much prefer the 'carrot' methods. Provide the right incentive and people will act on it. The problem is at the moment the carrots are encouraging all the wrong sort of behaviour.

Edited by youthoftoday

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Huh, I thought the Anglo-American model was the low tax model. :rolleyes: No wonder so many Brits are relocating over there.

"There is another potentially big advantage to the French system of income tax: it applies to the household not the individual. So, the more members of the household, the smaller the tax bill. Marjorie Mansfield of Siddalls, a specialist financial adviser, said: "The system can greatly reduce your income tax bill, particularly if you have children. In fact, almost half of French households pay no income tax at all."

Sounds sensible...it means that stay at home mothers' economic value is actually reflected in the tax system.

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Huh, I thought the Anglo-American model was the low tax model. :rolleyes: No wonder so many Brits are relocating over there.

In England the employee pays most of the income tax out of their wages. In France the employer pays most of the income tax before the wages are calculated. The ultimate effect is pretty much the same. They also have higher VAT. The overall rate of tax is similar - a few percent higher in France.

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The OP is true, but it doesn't tell the whole picture.

Sure, few pay Income tax, but those that do pay it live in a world of hurt, especially single people or young couples. A lot of French are leaving the country because of taxation, and quite a few do end up in the UK!

So why is that? because, on top of Income tax, you have social security and state pension! where here people spend what? 10%? let's say 7% to 12% of their income on NHS & co, in France it's more like 18% to 22% (don't recall the exact number as it's been a while).

VAT is roughly similar, petrol is expensive (taxed as hell), and there are a lot of local taxes four council, region and such (+ TV tax, killer inheritance tax, etc...).

Plus french earn less than people in the UK (but a lot of stuff is cheaper too). If I were to take a view, I would say that single or just married, better live in the UK, one kid no difference, 2 or more kids, France is easier to live in. I'll probably go back there once I get to 2 kids, and enjoy the social protection while it lasts (which it will not for long).

With some luck, House Prices will have bottomed by then.

Hope this clarifies a bit things.

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Not a good idea..the fertility rate among Pakistani Britons is already 4 times higher than everyone else...I suspect the large North African immigrant community in France must have something to do with the high birth rates there

I think the Chinese system, where everyone planning to have kids is required to obtain a 'birth permit', should be introduced here & families should be means tested before being allowed to have children. Single/teenage mothers or their kids born without a birth permit should not be allowed access to public funds..I know low birth rates are not good for the country in the long term but we certainly don`t need more chav/DSS scum or future suicide bombers..

Interested to run with this one. What happens if Ms Chav has a baby without a permit?

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For every British baby born, two foreigners should be killed to stop the planet from running out of resources... :lol:

...oh wait a min - we're already doing that. :ph34r:

As a member of the British National Socialist Party (BNP) though, you approve presumably?

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In France you get a reduction in income tax based on how many children you have. They introduced this to get the birth rate back up. It's worked so far, France has a birth rate of 1.96 which is one of the highest in Europe.

They should do something like that here. It could be funded by reducing benefits for those families not working and having lots of children.

French people are also very happy and live the longest, but we'll see what happens to France once the new president gets his mitts on things.

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Cats however should be free of charge, as they are of benefit to the community catching mice and looking clean and smart each day.

Thanks...about time I got some appreciation! :)

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Interested to run with this one. What happens if Ms Chav has a baby without a permit?

The TV programme on last week showed what happens in China. The mother is fined by the State and, unless she is wealthy, is therefore usually forced to sell her baby to the highest bidder to pay the fine. Wealthy couples who want a baby but cannot have one then get the baby they want for a price roughly equal to the fine on the mother who gave birth.

Its a kind of 'cap and trade' form of birth control similar to that being used to control CO2 emissions in the EU. A desperately cruel way of controlling birth rate in my view and I hope I never see anything like it here - whether it be by withdrawal of benefits or any other mechanism.

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Plus french earn less than people in the UK (but a lot of stuff is cheaper too). If I were to take a view, I would say that single or just married, better live in the UK, one kid no difference, 2 or more kids, France is easier to live in. I'll probably go back there once I get to 2 kids, and enjoy the social protection while it lasts (which it will not for long).

With some luck, House Prices will have bottomed by then.

Hope this clarifies a bit things.

Yes that is pretty much spot on. The worst situation is where you are self-employed. I think I was handing over around 80% of what I was billing to the state. Petrol is a bit cheaper in France - around 80p / l I think because they reduced tax and there is no road tax.

Basically France can be a good place to be an unproductive parasite if you can play the system well (like some British ex-pats have done with the health service) and are living somewhere not too expensive, it is a good place not to work. In Britain you are more or less forced to work AFAIKS.

Regarding "immigrant" vs. "french" birth rates - I suspect France will be partitioned by 2050 into Maghrebistan in the south-east - capital New Algiers (formerly Marseille) and Ancien-France in the north-west.

BTWthey may little tax but they do pay social security at 20%

Edited by davidg

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Think about it a little bit. I'm talking about a reduction in Income Tax for larger families. By definition you pay Income Tax if you have an income (i.e. are a productive member of society). It won't encourage the chavs.

If you then decrease (or at least don't increase) benefits for chavs if they have more children then this will remove the incentive for them to breed / make them get a job.

Re: ethnic minority famililes. The birth rates for recently arrived migrants tend to be high but they do drop with the 2nd / 3rd generation. Anyway, many of the migrants will be in low paid jobs and thus pay very little income tax anyway and thus wouldn't benefit from the income tax reduction. The reduced / non-increasing benefits for more children would also encourage smaller family sizes for them.

I don't like the 'stick' methods of birth control. The poster mentioning China as an example to be followed should be shot. I much prefer the 'carrot' methods. Provide the right incentive and people will act on it. The problem is at the moment the carrots are encouraging all the wrong sort of behaviour.

I agree the Chinese model is cruel but the kind of reverse eugenics that we are witnessing in this country is bound to have disastrous consequences in the long run. Whilst the more affluent classes used to have larger families in the past, the trend has been reversed in this country following decades of regressionist socialist policies & high taxation of the upper classes. The most successful amongst us (say, with genes that confer high intelligence & positive physical attributes) find it increasingly difficult to have even one child due to high child care costs, loss of earnings etc whilst the lower classes (with all the crap genes) have more kids, due to an overgenerous benefit & tax credit system. A system of tax breaks would only work if people in the higher tax bracket have more kids but the way things stand at present it would only make things worse i.e. encourage chavs & other undesirables to have more children by reducing whatever little taxes they pay currently.

Edited by thirdwave

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The TV programme on last week showed what happens in China. The mother is fined by the State and, unless she is wealthy, is therefore usually forced to sell her baby to the highest bidder to pay the fine. Wealthy couples who want a baby but cannot have one then get the baby they want for a price roughly equal to the fine on the mother who gave birth.

Its a kind of 'cap and trade' form of birth control similar to that being used to control CO2 emissions in the EU. A desperately cruel way of controlling birth rate in my view and I hope I never see anything like it here - whether it be by withdrawal of benefits or any other mechanism.

Things are slightly different in China as there is a blanket ban on having more than 1 child, forcing even wealthy families to buy children illegally..the system could be modified in this country so that people are allowed to have as many kids as they choose to, as long as they can afford them..

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Things are slightly different in China as there is a blanket ban on having more than 1 child, forcing even wealthy families to buy children illegally..the system could be modified in this country so that people are allowed to have as many kids as they choose to, as long as they can afford them..

The terminal problem remains of the planet not being able to afford them, due to dwindling resources. It's bad enough living on 'sardine can island' as it is.

Most likely, the old suspects of war, famine & ill-health will be along to even the score, as a solution is not even near in this eternal debate.

At least the Chinese had a good crack at it. Proposing anything similar in Europe is probably political suicide due to the selfish gene and the 'who will look after & pay for us in old age?' debacle.

Just to get a bit back on topic....On holiday last summer in Normandy, the Dutch owner of a big hotel I stayed the week in, said that generally the French hate foreigners. A fact many English don't realise it seems.

Edited by Saving For a Space Ship

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The TV programme on last week showed what happens in China. The mother is fined by the State and, unless she is wealthy, is therefore usually forced to sell her baby to the highest bidder to pay the fine. Wealthy couples who want a baby but cannot have one then get the baby they want for a price roughly equal to the fine on the mother who gave birth.

Its a kind of 'cap and trade' form of birth control similar to that being used to control CO2 emissions in the EU. A desperately cruel way of controlling birth rate in my view and I hope I never see anything like it here - whether it be by withdrawal of benefits or any other mechanism.

nothing like that would ever be necessary in the west.

China's problem was that it had too many people, and not enough loans or goods.to sell them. (like mortgages, car loans etc.)

Once they get their financial house in order, stable banks etc, and they have ramped up their manufacturing so that they can actually make enough cars etc. for china itself, you will see any and all population control measures go away.

Having a declining population, or even a "stable" one, is similar to having falling rates in housing. It is completely devastating for the markets.

I'm not saying that you want a boom in population, but like in housing you need a slow, steady increase to keep your markets viable.

Thats why you will continue to see mare and more immigrants, until the natural British start having more babies.

Edited by Mr Nice

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