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gruffydd

Industrial Scale Mortgage Fraud In The Uk - The Times

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http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/busi...icle2613863.ece

Mortgage fraud appears again

There are signs that lenders are gearing up for an onslaught on solicitors if losses come home to roost

Organised crime syndicates have been targeting residential and commercial property in increasingly sophisticated mortgage frauds using corrupt or compromised professional advisers, experts are warning.

They fear that the predicted slow-down in house prices, exacerbated by the Northern Rock crisis and the credit crunch, could expose multi-million-pound frauds involving hugely overvalued and, in thousands of cases, deteriorating properties that could leave the market highly unstable.

There is growing concern that there has been a systematic attack on the mortgage system by linked frauds. The Serious and Organised Crime Agency says that gangs are using corrupt or negligent solicitors, accountants and financial advisers as part of a fraud “infrastructure”, while the Serious Fraud Office has raided several offices, including law firms, as part of its investigation into an alleged multimillion-pound mortgage ring in the Midlands.

The Financial Services Authority, which has been investigating poor lending practices in the sub-prime market, set up an early warning system on possible frauds with lenders. It has received about 200 tip-offs, 32 of which were strong enough to warrant further investigation.

Edited by gruffydd

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Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable

So the Fraud Squad are going in now that they've been able to give their mates fair warning?

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http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/busi...icle2613863.ece

Mortgage fraud appears again

There are signs that lenders are gearing up for an onslaught on solicitors if losses come home to roost

Organised crime syndicates have been targeting residential and commercial property in increasingly sophisticated mortgage frauds using corrupt or compromised professional advisers, experts are warning.

They fear that the predicted slow-down in house prices, exacerbated by the Northern Rock crisis and the credit crunch, could expose multi-million-pound frauds involving hugely overvalued and, in thousands of cases, deteriorating properties that could leave the market highly unstable.

There is growing concern that there has been a systematic attack on the mortgage system by linked frauds. The Serious and Organised Crime Agency says that gangs are using corrupt or negligent solicitors, accountants and financial advisers as part of a fraud “infrastructure”, while the Serious Fraud Office has raided several offices, including law firms, as part of its investigation into an alleged multimillion-pound mortgage ring in the Midlands.

The Financial Services Authority, which has been investigating poor lending practices in the sub-prime market, set up an early warning system on possible frauds with lenders. It has received about 200 tip-offs, 32 of which were strong enough to warrant further investigation.

Interesting because one of the triggers for Japan's real estate bubble bursting was banks lending to criminal operations . . .

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200 tip offs- 32 investigations- lets hope the tip offs were doubled up on the same frauds, and it would be interestingto know how long they took to react

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The Financial Services Authority, which has been investigating poor lending practices in the sub-prime market, set up an early warning system on possible frauds with lenders. It has received about 200 tip-offs, 32 of which were strong enough to warrant further investigation.

Perhaps the (sweet) FSA have given them an early warning so they have time to oil their paper-shredders. I hear they can get clogged up if they're not maintained properly.

It's funny how when a market turns sour fraud is suddenly discovered to be endemic. Someone more cynical than myself might conclude that a blind-eye had been shown when things were going well.

Surely all those rising bonuses and record profits haven't been clouding the judgment of our regulators have they?

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THe FSA light touch is quite clearly aligned with New Labour's economic policy of never-ending house price inflation. Now the party's over. Boohoo. The FSA are just a sop - a pathetic front organisation run by government stooges. A quango from hell.

I spoke to one of their dweebs the other day. He claimed that mortgage lenders are always being given a hard time of it - and then went on to argue that borrowers should show more resposibility in their borrowing practices. :ph34r:

Edited by gruffydd

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THe FSA light touch is quite clearly aligned with New Labour's economic policy of never-ending house price inflation. Now the party's over. Boohoo. The FSA are just a sop - a pathetic front organisation run by government stooges. A quango from hell.

I spoke to one of their dweebs the other day. He claimed that mortgage lenders are always being given a hard time of it - and then went on to argue that borrowers should show more resposibility in their borrowing practices. :ph34r:

What an imbeclie, you can't borrow what a lender isn't willing to lend, period. It was the lenders themseles who raised the bar on borrowing and cut their checks, the FSA looked on and effectively gave it complicit acceptance.

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members of HPC told the police about the FSA/self cert fraud in 2004 but the police said it wasn't something they could deal with, even through the figures are massive...

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members of HPC told the police about the FSA/self cert fraud in 2004 but the police said it wasn't something they could deal with, even through the figures are massive...

A few years ago I ran my own business. Someone took a (large) order and then simply didn't pay. I gave him the stock because we met in a very posh hotel and he was at a table chatting with his buddies (who were two of the biggest players in the industry).

He never actually refused to pay. He even sent me more orders and gave me stories of how much money we were going to make together. It wasn't a huge amount of money but it was huge to me. When I asked my accountant if I could report him to the fraud office (he had commited the same 'fraud' on many people, I later found out; he bought stuff then sold it to another company (himself) cheaply then his 'business' went under then he did it again and again). My accountant said (this was in the late eighties so maybe it's changed but I doubt it) "The fraud office is half a dozen people and a room full of filing cabinets; they won't even look at anything under 250,000."

Imagine giving money away just because someone asks you? I checked this guy out; he seemed kosher, he seemed known in the industry; but he got to cheat me one time. After that I stopped extending any credit at all. I had been told that the industry 'required' three months credit (which was hell for me) but when I stopped offering credit it made no difference; people paid up-front. I offered credit for it was the 'done thing'; I would have looked naive not to have done so.

But it made no difference. As soon as I explained no money, no product, people paid.

But our whole banking system has been giving money away through 'brokers' as long as they were allowed to turn a blind eye and lob the debt into the market. I am sure there are hundreds of billions of dollars out there that only exist in models and will never turn back into money.

It is the fault of the banks. This is not really fraud for the victim is all of us. There is a duty on banks to handle risk. If they give money away without referring to risk then they have simply given money away.

I have personally known people who (this is a long time ago; circa 1970s, but you'll understand that inflation wouldn't make that much difference) who were willing to kill a human being for 500 pounds. And I found out during my life that this type of person is not in short supply. Imagine telling this person that he can have unhlimited amounts of money simply by asking for it?

This has always been about massive fraud perpetrated by those in charge of our system. But it will take years before we get to even hear that it is the people right at the top who are the guilty ones.

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There was a post on here last week, about someone applying for a mortgage and was now required to bring in a passport and a ton of supporting documentation.

I suspect this is why, as I think hundreds of so called "BTL landlords" are about to disapear in a puff of smoke (or return home with their swag) if they ever existed at all.

Then the banks will finally cotton on, that passports can be forged as well. :lol:

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we've basically become a nation of scam artists without much real industry.

I have been reading Trevellyan's History of England (trying to understand what Brown is on about in his "Britishness" campaign) and have come to the conclusion that we have ALWAYS been a nation of cutpurses and blaggards. Gordon Brown simply oversaw and directly facilitated the BIGGEST scam in our history-HPI-BTL-MEW paid for by the fraudulent conversion of monetary instruments into "sub-prime" and other "innovative" products. Government endorsed thieving began in earnest under Elizabeth I when she actively supported Frank Drake's piracy and constant breaches of Internation Law as it then existed. The "Empire" was simply a land grab.

So why should we expect any different? We have a conman in power for a nation that wants contricks. A scammer to represent the scammers. The "miracle" was simply a con-trick, plain and simple. Unethical, corrupt, criminal, rip-off scam.

Edited by Realistbear

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In Albania there was civic unrest when the population discovered that they wouldn't be getting back the savings they had put in various pyramid schemes (80% of GDP apparently).

I found it funny when I first heard of this. Now, However, it doesn't seem to me that we are that much better.

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I have been reading Trevellyan's History of England (trying to understand what Brown is on about in his "Britishness" campaign) and have come to the conclusion that we have ALWAYS been a nation of cutpurses and blaggards. Gordon Brown simply oversaw and directly facilitated the BIGGEST scam in our history-HPI-BTL-MEW paid for by the fraudulent conversion of monetary instruments into "sub-prime" and other "innovative" products. Government endorsed theiving began in earnest under Elizabeth I when she actively supported Frank Drake's piracy and constant breaches of INternation Law as it then existed. The "Empire" was simply a land grab.

So why should we expect any different? We have a conman in power for a nation that wants constricks. A scammer to represent the scammers. The "miracle" was simply a con-trick, plain and simple. Unethical, corrupt, criminal, rip-off scam.

Quite right. Plus we seem to have attracted all the scampateers from oversea's too, and at all levels, from the city high flyer, to the fraululent Nigerian BTL mortgage applicant.

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Quite right. Plus we seem to have attracted all the scampateers from oversea's too, and at all levels, from the city high flyer, to the fraululent Nigerian BTL mortgage applicant.

Indeed, the Russian "mafia" flourish in London and are allowed to buy property without question as to the source of their "income." Brown's endorsement of "super-casinos" is just another indication of the kind of corrupt society that is being created.

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Perhaps the (sweet) FSA have given them an early warning so they have time to oil their paper-shredders. I hear they can get clogged up if they're not maintained properly.

It's funny how when a market turns sour fraud is suddenly discovered to be endemic. Someone more cynical than myself might conclude that a blind-eye had been shown when things were going well.

Surely all those rising bonuses and record profits haven't been clouding the judgment of our regulators have they?

FSA = A useless bunch of sloaths.

ALL THIS LIE-TO-BUY SCAM WAS UNCOVERED AND SHOWN UP IN 2003 [see below]. THE FSA DID SWEET FA ABOUT IT; WHY?!?! Was it because, if they did nothing about it, the “value” of their own properties would just keep going up?!?

Mortgage customers 'urged to lie'

Housebuyers are being encouraged to break the law in order to obtain huge mortgages, the BBC has discovered.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3222053.stm

The Money Programme uncovers massive mortgage fraud

BBC TWO's The Money Programme has revealed a huge mortgage fraud with brokers from some of Britain's biggest estate agents and financial advice groups advising customers to break the law and lie about their incomes to get massively bigger mortgages.

And it shows how the illicit cash raised by this method has been pouring into the housing market, boosting prices and leaving many people risking financial ruin.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressrele..._mortgage.shtml

Edited by eric pebble

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Re: History of England - read about the piratical Sir Frances Drake and his best buddy Sir John Hawkins - slave traders and pirates who worked for Lizzy the 1st.

Edited by gruffydd

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there was actually a large section of history between Elizabeth I and now when we did actually produce stuff - although I am sure we had our fair share of scammers then as well.

Most of the world's ships were build in this country at one point for example.

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Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable
If all you have to do to rob a bank is fill-in a form then they asked for it.

"That MEW was asking for it. 'I'll do anything you want' she said. 'Take me now!'"

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In Albania there was civic unrest when the population discovered that they wouldn't be getting back the savings they had put in various pyramid schemes (80% of GDP apparently).

I found it funny when I first heard of this. Now, However, it doesn't seem to me that we are that much better.

The difference is that when that happened in Albania, it was only few years after Albania had gotten out of Communism, therefore people had no idea and no education about how a capitalistic free market society works and the risks for them. They had been used all their life to everything being state owned and therefore guaranteed.

Now in the UK people know that there is no guarantee and you have to assess risk for yourself... actually I'm not so sure about that... :o

Maybe we are more similar to communist Albania than I would have thought...

Edited by not_DrBubb

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There we are HPCers :D Did I not say a couple of months ago that this was going to be coming out? It isn't just what you know as they say.... ;):) There's more besides-much more for those still in any doubt about the degree to which this kind of organised crime has helped skew the market.

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Re: History of England - read about the piratical Sir Frances Drake and his best buddy Sir John Hawkins - slave traders and pirates who worked for Lizzy the 1st.

I have relatives by marriage directly descended from Sir Frances Drake-he was a mercenary and a right barsteward apparently!

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