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dubsie

Inheritance Tax

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Does anyone know what percentage of the population is actually hit hard by this tax, very few people even with property have more than half a million to pass down a generation. And let's face it the first half a million is tax free only then do you start paying death duty at 40%.

The whole point of living in a balanced society is that the least well off are helped and if we go down the road of I'm alright jack then we're heading the same way as America. Anyone who has lived in the states will know that it has some of the poorest people in the world. These people don't have benefits, they are working but working for next to nothing to serve it's middle classes in restuarants. hotels, bars and fast food outlets. But the 'Hey Man I'm alright so that's ok' despite the fact they live in a country where people have no access to free health care or education.

Peoples opinions are clearly heading in the same direction as Americas, and can't understand why in the UK we moan about being one of the least taxed countries in Europe. If you lived in Holland you would be paying a lot more and be expected to pay more for food, drink and just about everything.

Many of the things that make this country great were created because of pressure from trade unions but all I hear about on this forum is how bad trade unions are. Anyone with a decent education will know about how working people actually got the vote, an NHS, freedom to strike, minimum wage, council houses. If it wasn't for trade unions most of you lot wouldn't even have a computer as I can't imagine many of you are lords or related to early industrialists.

You moan about house prices but you want to kick out a government that will actually listen to trade unions, the Tories don't give a damn shit about people not being able to afford a house. Most of there members live in lovely great big detatched properties in the home counties detached from your obecession with house prices; hence why there so bothered about this tax.

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The threshold for this tax year is £300,000. That means that anyone with a nice 3 bed, and pretty much all 4 bed houses in my area are affected. So very many people in actual fact.

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The threshold for this tax year is £300,000. That means that anyone with a nice 3 bed, and pretty much all 4 bed houses in my area are affected. So very many people in actual fact.

Yes but they agreed to push this up £600,000 by the end of 2009....

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I answered that without fully reading the post, so in addition, I'd say that I've never heard anyone moan about being one of the least taxed countries. In fact I'd say we are one of the highest taxed countries. Perhaps not in personal income tax, but in stealth taxes. Fuel for example is significantly more expensive here than any other country in Europe, and the difference is all tax.

Further, I personally believe that inheritance tax is one of the most unfair taxes anyone ever thought of. Why should tax be paid on someones estate just because they die. Particularly since that money has been taxed many times over throughout that persons life already. It is basically double taxation and is copmletely unfair.

Further, inheritance tax (or death duties) is one of the reasons why so many of this countries great architectural treasure have been ripped down because families could no longer afford to maintain them, or were forced to sell to pay the death duties.

And no, I'm not wealthy. I just completely disagree with this tax.

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Does anyone know what percentage of the population is actually hit hard by this tax, very few people even with property have more than half a million to pass down a generation. And let's face it the first half a million is tax free only then do you start paying death duty at 40%.

The whole point of living in a balanced society is that the least well off are helped and if we go down the road of I'm alright jack then we're heading the same way as America. Anyone who has lived in the states will know that it has some of the poorest people in the world. These people don't have benefits, they are working but working for next to nothing to serve it's middle classes in restuarants. hotels, bars and fast food outlets. But the 'Hey Man I'm alright so that's ok' despite the fact they live in a country where people have no access to free health care or education.

Peoples opinions are clearly heading in the same direction as Americas, and can't understand why in the UK we moan about being one of the least taxed countries in Europe. If you lived in Holland you would be paying a lot more and be expected to pay more for food, drink and just about everything.

Many of the things that make this country great were created because of pressure from trade unions but all I hear about on this forum is how bad trade unions are. Anyone with a decent education will know about how working people actually got the vote, an NHS, freedom to strike, minimum wage, council houses. If it wasn't for trade unions most of you lot wouldn't even have a computer as I can't imagine many of you are lords or related to early industrialists.

You moan about house prices but you want to kick out a government that will actually listen to trade unions, the Tories don't give a damn shit about people not being able to afford a house. Most of there members live in lovely great big detatched properties in the home counties detached from your obecession with house prices; hence why there so bothered about this tax.

The generally accepted figure is about 6%. Most of the very rich have long since found away around it. Because of HPI It's more likely to affect a growing number of people in South East England - not a few in marginal seats.

Of course the house price crash which so many on this site seem to froth at the mouth for would remove the majority of those likely to be affected by the tax. But they're counting on this tax staying as it is because they believe it will be enought to cook Brown's goose.

So that leaves them in the paradoxical situation of wanting a HPC and not wanting a HPC.

And whilst they're working that one out Brown will find wriggle-room elsewhere.

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Yes but they agreed to push this up £600,000 by the end of 2009....

Isn't it £325000 in 2009/10 ? (See http://www.hbosplc.com/media/inheritancetax.asp)

As for the number of homes hit by IHT, it is 2.3 million homes according to :-

http://money.guardian.co.uk/tax/inheritanc...2185289,00.html

(To increase to 4.2 million homes by 2020. Currently 1 in 10 towns have an average house price above the IHT threshold).

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Many of the things that make this country great were created because of pressure from trade unions but all I hear about on this forum is how bad trade unions are. Anyone with a decent education will know about how working people actually got the vote, an NHS, freedom to strike, minimum wage, council houses. If it wasn't for trade unions most of you lot wouldn't even have a computer as I can't imagine many of you are lords or related to early industrialists.

The unions won't be appreciated until they're gone. Like the sadly departed 8 hour day.

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Does anyone else think that it is a bit rich to say "If my property was only worth £250k I would escape Inheritance Tax, because I have had the misfortune to be the recipient of a property that has gone up by a fantastic amount I am being disadvantaged by this tax?".

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I answered that without fully reading the post, so in addition, I'd say that I've never heard anyone moan about being one of the least taxed countries. In fact I'd say we are one of the highest taxed countries. Perhaps not in personal income tax, but in stealth taxes. Fuel for example is significantly more expensive here than any other country in Europe, and the difference is all tax.

Further, I personally believe that inheritance tax is one of the most unfair taxes anyone ever thought of. Why should tax be paid on someones estate just because they die. Particularly since that money has been taxed many times over throughout that persons life already. It is basically double taxation and is copmletely unfair.

Further, inheritance tax (or death duties) is one of the reasons why so many of this countries great architectural treasure have been ripped down because families could no longer afford to maintain them, or were forced to sell to pay the death duties.

And no, I'm not wealthy. I just completely disagree with this tax.

I think anyone can argue why should you pay death duty on money you would already of paid tax against. But the fact is we need to pay for running a very expensive over populated country. The money has to come from somewhere and let's face it the rich are in a far better position to pay than me or you. However, pound for pound we're actually paying more tax than the super rich and that's without taking into account all the scams.

Brown to his credit has a difficult job, he's got a war he didn't want and he's taken power when Blair cleary wanted out. Blair was a closet Tory and was in no way a Labour man, if he was then the Railways would have been in public hands. Give Brown the time to make a change.

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I think it stinks that I pay 40% tax on my income for my whole life, buy a property with some of whats left, save what I can, and then have to give the government another 40% (which should by rights belong to my children). And all because I was prudent enough to get to that position (if I ever do). Double taxation is simply unfair regardless of whether that person is rich or poor.

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Does anyone else think that it is a bit rich to say "If my property was only worth £250k I would escape Inheritance Tax, because I have had the misfortune to be the recipient of a property that has gone up by a fantastic amount I am being disadvantaged by this tax?".

Yes. Surely the vast majority of those who currently do pay have to do so primarily because of massive HPI? Therefore it is generally NOT out of already taxed income. You only have to pay the tax on anything *above* £300k as well - which doesn't seem altogether unreasonable to me.

I've also heard it quoted in the last week that only 6% of estates currently have to pay IHT anyway, does anybody know if that is true (I'm slightly dubious since my sources are a certain G. Brown and P.Toynbee!)?

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Double taxation is simply unfair regardless of whether that person is rich or poor.

Should we abolish VAT as well? The problem is that if you only had one tax it would have to be at a massive rate. It's much better to have lots of different taxes, otherwise it distorts people's behaviour.

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Yes. Surely the vast majority of those who currently do pay have to do so primarily because of massive HPI? Therefore it is generally NOT out of already taxed income. You only have to pay the tax on anything *above* £300k as well - which doesn't seem altogether unreasonable to me.

I've also heard it quoted in the last week that only 6% of estates currently have to pay IHT anyway, does anybody know if that is true (I'm slightly dubious since my sources are a certain G. Brown and P.Toynbee!)?

It's around 6% but what makes me laugh is how the Tories have announced a tax cut that will affect some of the wealthiest people in the country. Oh goodie a tax cut that will only make 6% of the richest even richer. Perhaps they can buy more buy to lets with the money they have saved and make the market even more impossible.

Edited by dubsie

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I think anyone can argue why should you pay death duty on money you would already of paid tax against. But the fact is we need to pay for running a very expensive over populated country. The money has to come from somewhere and let's face it the rich are in a far better position to pay than me or you. However, pound for pound we're actually paying more tax than the super rich and that's without taking into account all the scams.

Thats part of the point. The tax doesn't hit the people it is supposed to. It hits people who shouldn't be hit. It was always designed as a tax on the super-rich, not average families. Additionally, if the government were harder on the super-rich, including the oligarchs who live here for free, they'd get plenty more tax out of them in the first place, but then they wouldn't get their next election campaign bankrolled.

Brown to his credit has a difficult job, he's got a war he didn't want and he's taken power when Blair cleary wanted out. Blair was a closet Tory and was in no way a Labour man, if he was then the Railways would have been in public hands. Give Brown the time to make a change.

So Mr Brown voted against the war did he... I don't think so.

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It's around 6% but what makes me laugh is how the Tories have announced a tax cut that will affect some of the wealthiest people in the country. Oh goodie a tax cut that will only make 6% of the richest even richer.

You'd be surprised about what effect tax cuts can have. Slovakia introduced a flat rate tax of 19% for both corporation tax and income tax. Their tax take went up when they lowered the taxes to this rate because it became no longer worthwhile avoiding the tax. It was cheaper to pay it than avoid it. This might not be the case for inheritance tax, but their is always a cost involved somewhere along the line, financial or otherwise, in avoiding tax.

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Should we abolish VAT as well? The problem is that if you only had one tax it would have to be at a massive rate. It's much better to have lots of different taxes, otherwise it distorts people's behaviour.

There is also an argument which says that selling such properties allows for social mobility and the opportunity for others more enterprising to make use of such property (it affects building and farm land as well as houses). There's also the argument that inherited wealth leads to economic sclerosis driving down innovation and entrepreneurialism (if I inherit a string of BTL properties why should I work for a living), and if I inherit a string of BTL properties how are the FTB's ever going to get a look in?

We've lived through feudal times before, the abolition of inheritance tax could well bring it back again.

This is a silly debate in which a false dichotomy is being presented - it's not either/or but what is an equitable and sensible level.

The answer is a tax set at a level to tax those who've avoided other taxes throughout their lives because they pay more to accountants to create tax-avoidance schemes than joe public earns in a year: a tax which rises and falls in-line with house price inflation. That way those who are super-rich would finally get their share of the bill for the services which the rest of us cannot avoid paying for, and the rest of us can have a sound old age knowing we have passed onto our children the hard-earned fruits of our labours.

Edited by happy?

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Thats part of the point. The tax doesn't hit the people it is supposed to. It hits people who shouldn't be hit. It was always designed as a tax on the super-rich, not average families. Additionally, if the government were harder on the super-rich, including the oligarchs who live here for free, they'd get plenty more tax out of them in the first place, but then they wouldn't get their next election campaign bankrolled.

So Mr Brown voted against the war did he... I don't think so.

Brown tried to vote against the war but Blair would of taken his job, and that was a FACT. Name one MP who kept there job after refusing to vote for a war mandate.

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Brown tried to vote against the war but Blair would of taken his job, and that was a FACT. Name one MP who kept there job after refusing to vote for a war mandate.

Clare Short wasn't keen on it. Robin Cook resigned on principle. Name a member of the fourth estate who didn't spout jingoist nonsense at the time rather than undertake proper, dispassionate, critical journalism and then join in the with the lynch mob screaming and shouting as loud as the rest of them rather than admit they'd failed to do their job when they most needed to do it...

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Brown tried to vote against the war but Blair would of taken his job, and that was a FACT. Name one MP who kept there job after refusing to vote for a war mandate.

If thats true, and i'd like to see a link to prove this fact, then all it proves is that he is weak and isn't fit to be prime minister.

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If families were able to accumulate capital over the generations then people might not be so amenable to manipulation by the state and big business. Indeed, they might actually learn the true meaning of liberty. Obviously, this situation can not be allowed to arise so we have taxes such as IHT to prevent this happening. Ostensibly, they are supposed to be redistributive but in practise little of the capital winds up in the hands of the poor. Instead, those who pay inheritance tax wind up with less capital while those at the bottom of society still have no capital. The only beneficiary is the machinery of the state which has more cash with which to bribe, cajole and coerce the people into obeying its will.

The standard defence of IHT can be found in this piece by Will Hutton in the Guardian

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comment/sto...2185431,00.html

It contains the usual guff that

"[inheritance tax] promotes social mobility, creates opportunity, limits entrenched advantage, redistributes wealth and helps keep property cheaper."

The comments are well worth reading since there are a surprisingly large number of telling criticisms of Hutton's claims

If even a lot of the Guardanistas recognise the iniquity of the current set up then Brown has got problems

BTW I was very tempted to leave a comment commending Hutton on his brilliance and wondering when he would turn his genius to tackling the iniquities of BTL. Somehow I do not think his wife will let him write the article

Edited by up2nogood

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I was driving down the M1 on Friday night and while flicking through the radio stations I heard Ed Milliband being interviewed on GB's bottling of the election. He was banging on about the Tory idea of raising the IHT threshold and stating it would leave a black hole in the economy that would have to be paid for, then kept on labouring the point. The BBC interviewer was politely asking this and that and then opened up the phone lines. A woman called in and steamed into the the little sh*te stating that he and his slimy brother had exploited one of the legal loopholes in the IHT to get away without having to pay the IHT on their Dad's estate. He was evading the questiion and wouldn't give a straight answer but she wouldn't let go, like a terrier, until he said "we didn't break any tax laws"

The whole episode just reinforced what a bunch of morally destitute politicians we have in this country and the totally inadequate level of journalism from the BBC - a real shame

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The threshold for this tax year is £300,000. That means that anyone with a nice 3 bed, and pretty much all 4 bed houses in my area are affected. So very many people in actual fact.

HPC will fix that problem for them!

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it affects building and farm land as well as houses

If the land is being actively farmed, and the associated buildings are used to support this then they are exempt from IHT.

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