16 Hours Or 116 Hours Work Pw For The Same Money?

[It is different this time]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/arti...in_page_id=1770

The number of unmarried couples living together has shot up by two thirds during Labour's decade in power, according to an official analysis released yesterday.

Fewer women are now marrying or living with men before 25, which "suggests a delay in partnership formation for generations of young women'"

The increase in single young women is linked to their greater educational achievements and ever-expanding career opportunities.

However, while women are putting off marriage, more than one in five have lived with a man before the age of 25. In the 1970s, only one in 100 women did so

Mr Brown's tax credit benefits system, introduced from 1998, has been blamed for persuading many mothers to stay single because it pays more to lone parents than to couple families.

Labour has stripped away the last tax break for the married, the Married Couples Allowance, and tried to downgrade the importance of marriage, removing references to it from official documents, and making register offices replace signs mentioning weddings with ones alluding to "ceremonies".

• There is no tax or benefit incentive for couples to marry as opposed to living together as cohabitees.

Many cohabitations are thought to break up because the benefit system is heavily skewed in favour of single people.

Mr Brown's tax credit system pays single mothers who work more than 16 hours a week and provides them with generous childcare allowances.

But tax credits make no provision for a second adult in the house, and the income of a working second adult means lower tax credits.

Labour MP and former welfare reform minister Frank Field has calculated that a single mother with two children under 11 on the minimum wage received tax credits last year that took her weekly income to £487 if she worked only 16 hours a week.

A two-parent family with one earner would have to put in 116 hours of work on the same pay to get the same money.

Nice message to families Mr no boom no bust, get rid of the man & get more money. No wonder less & less people are getting married as Mr miracle has introduced measures to split and undermine the family and marriage.

Screw the economy & screw the family values! but remember ''Things can only get better'

[Clueless_Academic]

A great post on the Social Engineering concept now sweeping the UK - Why haven't HPC members examined the concepts at play here ???

I guess single parent households (mostly female) are unable to condition Children in an adequate manner - hence the gradual decline in UK Moral, Social & Academic Standards.

The State has replaced the Traditional 'Nuclear' family - and become the breadwinner / provider - however the cost has been that the 'Household' rules are now laid down by Government -

Unfortunately, within a single generation, the UK would have lost its Cultural, Historical, and Moral Roots as the 'Postmodern' Society of Today has put Style above Substance -

[right_freds_dead]

A great post on the Social Engineering concept now sweeping the UK - Why haven't HPC members examined the concepts at play here ???

because we dont OWN houses yet so if it gets too bad we'd probably be able to leave for somewhere than makes more sense.

[shitfly]

Labour MP and former welfare reform minister Frank Field has calculated that a single mother with two children under 11 on the minimum wage received tax credits last year that took her weekly income to £487 if she worked only 16 hours a week.

A two-parent family with one earner would have to put in 116 hours of work on the same pay to get the same money.

Wow that's just over £15/hour per child! That's quite quite shocking.

Imagine if we had to pay (part time) teachers that rate for a class of 30 - £450ph.

Now that would definitely worth resurrecting that old physics degree for!

[Bearback]

Surely it cant be 487 quid a week? The single mothers i know always seemed out of pocket.

[Oh Dear]

Thats about the same as a FT job that pays about £36,000! If it is true that you can take home 1.5* the average wage just by claiming tax credits why would any sane woman go to work?

[stonethecrows]

There that just PROVES journos come on here and pinch ideas-the barstewards have lifted this straight offa my point on the unemployment thread or whatever it was t'other day...how very bloody dare they!! :angry:

[Guest grumpy-old-man]

Thats about the same as a FT job that pays about £36,000! If it is true that you can take home 1.5* the average wage just by claiming tax credits why would any sane woman go to work?

exactly, that's why we have a part-time labour force in the UK. No holiday entitlement to pay out, they don't socially bond the same at work as they only work part-time, so they don't have the same "everybody out" mentality (from "on the buses") so no-one complains about even the most simple problems anymore.

so there we have it, a nation of work slaves that never complain & who are upto their eyeballs in debt, knackered on both counts imo.

No Way Out.

[Justice]

it's not just single mothers playing the game but also the immigrants and child tax credits blows a big hole in the argument about the british needing low paid jobs to keep us all going and it's strange but both groups tend to vote labour, labour is the thing a working man is forced to give away for free.

PC could not work and has not worked

[South Lorne]

exactly, that's why we have a part-time labour force in the UK. No holiday entitlement to pay out, they don't socially bond the same at work as they only work part-time, so they don't have the same "everybody out" mentality (from "on the buses") so no-one complains about even the most simple problems anymore.

so there we have it, a nation of work slaves that never complain & who are upto their eyeballs in debt, knackered on both counts imo.

No Way Out.

...this is why the number of women in part time jobs is so high....

[BufferBear Bitcoin Bull]

Thats about the same as a FT job that pays about £36,000! If it is true that you can take home 1.5* the average wage just by claiming tax credits why would any sane woman go to work?

The system is terrible skewed. I returned to work after each period of maternity leave but we were actually out of pocket after paying for childcare (nursery fees) x2 as we are a married couple living together. Returning to work has has only really made a difference since my daughter started school but we still have one in nursery. I would say 60-70% of the parents (all social backgrounds) of children in my daughter's class do not work, even part time. Some of the more comfortable of ones look at me with pity when they become aware that I work full-time. . They attend all school activities, assembly etc. I'm feeling like a mug. Maybe I have a got it wrong?? .

Edited October 6, 2007 by Buffer Bear

[laurejon]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/arti...in_page_id=1770

Nice message to families Mr no boom no bust, get rid of the man & get more money. No wonder less & less people are getting married as Mr miracle has introduced measures to split and undermine the family and marriage.

Screw the economy & screw the family values! but remember ''Things can only get better'

Its all part of the Labour Masterplan, those who can pay, should pay.

So I am afraid, men will have to pay for it in future.

[Ah-so]

A married couple with children have it tough. There is little point in just the man going out to work unless he earns a pretty decent wage. In London, the rent on a 2-bed apartment will probably be about £700p/m minimum privately, so you would have very little left of a salary of £20,000, yet this is significantly more than you will earn stacking shelves in Sainsburys or something similar.

[jay67]

I have a friend who works full time in a local college.She is convinced that some staff members,who worked full time previously,have voluntarily switched to part-time working and are claiming 'tax credits' to bring their income up to the previous level.Is this possible,and has anyone else noticed this happening?

[Guest grumpy-old-man]

I have a friend who works full time in a local college.She is convinced that some staff members,who worked full time previously,have voluntarily switched to part-time working and are claiming 'tax credits' to bring their income up to the previous level.Is this possible,and has anyone else noticed this happening?

yes.

my wife & I have heard people discussing exactly this & doing exactly this.

They get the same money working 16 hours as they would do working 37.5. For people on low paid unskilled jobs with no promotion prospects why work full time, can you blame them ?

[Bloo Loo]

yes.

my wife & I have heard people discussing exactly this & doing exactly this.

They get the same money working 16 hours as they would do working 37.5. For people on low paid unskilled jobs with no promotion prospects why work full time, can you blame them ?

i understand this is part of the drive to make our economy competitive- obviously, if the worker is only costing one third of a full wage, it means that wage costs in the UK are getting nearer those of CHina. Dont worry, Gordon has it all under control

[Guest grumpy-old-man]

i understand this is part of the drive to make our economy competitive- obviously, if the worker is only costing one third of a full wage, it means that wage costs in the UK are getting nearer those of CHina. Dont worry, Gordon has it all under control

Tony Blair must be laughing his ar$e off, floods, foot & mouth/blue tongue, property market on the brink, poss sm problems, 1st UK bank run for 150 years, credit crisis.

[South Lorne]

Tony Blair must be laughing his ar$e off, floods, foot & mouth/blue tongue, property market on the brink, poss sm problems, 1st UK bank run for 150 years, credit crisis.

...yeah ..he was brilliant... wasn't he ..?...

[Guest grumpy-old-man]

...yeah ..he was brilliant... wasn't he ..?...

I knew I shouldn't have phrased it like that, but thought I wouldn't have to make it clear as you know my stance on stuff by now surely.

he has helped ruin the UK but he is a very clever man to leave Gordo to clear up the mess & he gets a promotion. He is peace envoy to the middle east ffs, irony at it's best.

it's like putting a scouser in charge of credit card postings in the Royal Mail.

[BufferBear Bitcoin Bull]

From my understanding of the Family Tax Credit system, one is only better off if they are single and have a fairly low salary and / or work part time. I don't think couples benefit anywhere near as much. I do know however situations where our disposable income has been lower than associates as they have had 70-80% of their childcare paid for (and thus can afford more expensive nurseries than us at our expense!!!) whereas we have paid over 1000 p.m and are not entitled to any tax credits.

The system is fcuked. An individual earning just under 60k is entitled to help with childcare costs but a family earning 61k is not.

Edited for spelling!!!

Edited October 6, 2007 by Buffer Bear

[warwickbloke]

From my understanding of the Family Tax Credit system, one is only better off if they are single and have a fairly low salary and / or work part time. I don't think couples benefit anywhere near as much. I do know however situations where our disposable income has been lower than associates as they have had 70-80% of their childcare paid for (and thus can afford more expensive nurseries than us at our expense!!!) wereas we have paid over 1000 p.m and are not entitled to any tax credits.

The system is fcuked. An individual earning just under 60k is entitled to help with childcare costs but a family earning 61k is not.

Must agree, help with childcare costs ought not be means tested like family allowance.

At the other end of the scale unemployed should take a job on offer or receive no benefit at all.

If they are unable to see this they are not fit to have children.

Kids should not be held as ransom as a reason not to work.

I get really cheesed off at spotty faced gum chewing chavs saying "it ain't worth me working, I get more on benefits".

Have state schools from age 6 months & every able bodied person can be government employees working where required instead of lazing around getting benefits they are not entitled to.

I'd guess it may promote a more responsible attitude amongst the more shifty.

[dubsie]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/arti...in_page_id=1770

Nice message to families Mr no boom no bust, get rid of the man & get more money. No wonder less & less people are getting married as Mr miracle has introduced measures to split and undermine the family and marriage.

Screw the economy & screw the family values! but remember ''Things can only get better'

Family values went with the loss of a single living wage created by Mrs Thatcher. A single family member can no longer support a family unless you're lucky enough to get paid over 30k per annum.

Look around, I couldn't afford to keep my wife and kids we both have to work and it's been like that since about 1980. I used to be able to work overtime....37.5 + = Time + 1/2....double time for Saturdays and Sundays. So I could if i put the hours in bring home enough cash for the whole family. These days it's salaries and unless you're lucky both have to work.

The tax credit system is simply supporting families because the don't earn enough to feed there kids.....basically the tax payer is subsidising bad employment.

Workers need to make a stand in this country, and we need to push the unions for change.

[youthoftoday]

The whole benefits system is thoroughly rotten. It provides a huge disincentive to work and has contributed enormously to the breakdown of society.

Those in work and earning between £25-40K are the mugs. I'm at the upper end of that scale and support a non-working wife and two children. We don't drink, don't smoke, don't go out (once in a blue moon), I take sandwiches to work, we grow our own veg, I cycle whenever I can to avoid petrol costs, we only buy clothes etc in sales (the soles of my boots are nearly worn through), our mortgage isn't huge and after all this we can save a bit each month - except that we get sod all in benefits in comparison with a single mum / low income couple and so we have to pay for a lot of things they don't. Someone playing the benefits game and on Working Tax Credit and Child Tax Credits can net nearly £9000 pa in benefits whereas we get about £2000 pa. They would also get their rent paid and council tax benefit.

If we decided to go down that route and work 16 hours each at our local Tesco stacking shelves earning about £5200 each we would pay zero tax, zero national insurance and take home £20K pa (not including housing benefit + council tax credit + free school meals + anything else we can screw out of the system). The difference between what we take home now and what we could by working part-time and claiming benefits is pretty narrow. The more I look at it the more attractive it becomes. No wonder the chavs are at it. Who's the mug?

Edited October 6, 2007 by youthoftoday

[South Lorne]

The whole benefits system is thoroughly rotten. It provides a huge disincentive to work and has contributed enormously to the breakdown of society.

...yes...but....Nulabour are driving this breakdown of society ....it means for them ...control....rely on government for everything ...Guru Gordo the saviour....

[Oh Dear]

If we have the recession many on this forum are expecting, do you think they will put a stop to the benifits madness because it will no longer be affordable?