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Justice

Just Google 'spider Goats'

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what else is not on the news !

Justice this is old news. We discussed this very issue not that long ago.

The goat/spiders are not true CHymeras as the spider silk gene is only present in the mamary glands.

Apparantly the milk has to be further processed to extract the silk.

I don't think this is a secret but it's worrying that it's the thin end of a wedge.

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Justice this is old news. We discussed this very issue not that long ago.

The goat/spiders are not true CHymeras as the spider silk gene is only present in the mamary glands.

Apparantly the milk has to be further processed to extract the silk.

I don't think this is a secret but it's worrying that it's the thin end of a wedge.

Is trhe logical conclusion spider/soldier chimaeras that are totally bulletproof? :unsure:

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Is trhe logical conclusion spider/soldier chimaeras that are totally bulletproof? :unsure:

Yeah but you can just trap them in a big glass and throw them out the window. :lol:

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Justice this is old news. We discussed this very issue not that long ago.

The goat/spiders are not true CHymeras as the spider silk gene is only present in the mamary glands.

Apparantly the milk has to be further processed to extract the silk.

I don't think this is a secret but it's worrying that it's the thin end of a wedge.

Indeed it is mighty old.

Transgenic mammals have been around for almost two decades now.

SC - The gene would be present throughout or it would not be inheritable which would mean the goat would not truly be transgenic. The gene would only be expressed or active in the goats boobies.

Sorry SC, but I dont buy into slippery slope arguments.

A has occurred (or will or might occur); therefore

B will inevitably happen. (slippery slope)

B is wrong; therefore

A is wrong. (straw man)

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Indeed it is mighty old.

Transgenic mammals have been around for almost two decades now.

SC - The gene would be present throughout or it would not be inheritable which would mean the goat would not truly be transgenic. The gene would only be expressed or active in the goats boobies.

Sorry SC, but I dont buy into slippery slope arguments.

I didn't read the article. Perhaps I was thinking of the cows they did this with? Or maybe I'm "mis-remembering".

In any event you're right ... if it's only present in the mamary gland then then it stands to reason it's not hertitable in the zygotes (or should that be zygoats? :lol: ). But if it is heritable then it's transgenic.

No? I'd have thought that when you start mixing species that couldn't possibly interbreed naturally then you are opening pandoras box. I don't see how you can put the lid back on.

Potentially this could be very very dangerous.

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I didn't read the article. Perhaps I was thinking of the cows they did this with? Or maybe I'm "mis-remembering".

In any event you're right ... if it's only present in the mamary gland then then it stands to reason it's not hertitable in the zygotes (or should that be zygoats? :lol: ). But if it is heritable then it's transgenic.

No? I'd have thought that when you start mixing species that couldn't possibly interbreed naturally then you are opening pandoras box. I don't see how you can put the lid back on.

Potentially this could be very very dangerous.

There are ways of obtaining product from a gene without the gene being permanently implanted into the host genome - ie use a modified virus as a vector but this is not really practical with mammals. Works well with plants sometimes- particularly Tobacco and a Tobacco Mosaic Virus - vector.

7591361f1.jpg

The tobacco plants above are expressing Green or Red Floursecent Protein which "glows in the dark" under UV light.

Why are you "naturally opening a pandoras box"? There are massive benefits that can be reaped from this technology. Of course, there are some risks - but then the same is true of any technology, including the most basic ones like fire and the wheel.

I'm not having a go at you here but do you have a reasoned argument that transgenics is inherentley dangerous or is this based on degrees of fear and ignorance (not having a go at you! promise!) born of a hysterical, fear-mongering news media and hollywood fantasy?

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Guest d23
Justice this is old news. We discussed this very issue not that long ago.

The goat/spiders are not true CHymeras as the spider silk gene is only present in the mamary glands.

Apparantly the milk has to be further processed to extract the silk.

I don't think this is a secret but it's worrying that it's the thin end of a wedge.

i'm guessing he's referring to the documentary "Google Spider Goats - A Film for all Americans" link

I haven't watched it yet but it's another 9 11 / Federal Reserve conspiracy movie and comes highly recommended by prison planet which put me off a bit

Features Aaron Russo who died recently and is someone I've been told to read up on (he's highly regarded by some here IIRC)

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Why are you "naturally opening a pandoras box"? There are massive benefits that can be reaped from this technology. Of course, there are some risks - but then the same is true of any technology, including the most basic ones like fire and the wheel.

I'm not having a go at you here but do you have a reasoned argument that transgenics is inherentley dangerous or is this based on degrees of fear and ignorance (not having a go at you! promise!) born of a hysterical, fear-mongering news media and hollywood fantasy?

no this is a genuine concern.

You can bet that these experiments have already been militarised before they became commercially available(or known about).Same was true of the internet...it was a military comms system used initally in vietnam,but designed in the early 60's.Didn't get onto the mainstream until 1990.

but GM, militarised for what purpose??

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Justice this is old news. We discussed this very issue not that long ago.

The goat/spiders are not true CHymeras as the spider silk gene is only present in the mamary glands.

Apparantly the milk has to be further processed to extract the silk.

I don't think this is a secret but it's worrying that it's the thin end of a wedge.

Ok Justice is sorry for being a little slow this time but i don't think many here agree with your 'not true' argument in connection with goats and spiders.

technoligy is something like 30 years ahead from what the public is told so god only knows what they are doing today

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There are ways of obtaining product from a gene without the gene being permanently implanted into the host genome - ie use a modified virus as a vector but this is not really practical with mammals. Works well with plants sometimes- particularly Tobacco and a Tobacco Mosaic Virus - vector.

7591361f1.jpg

The tobacco plants above are expressing Green or Red Floursecent Protein which "glows in the dark" under UV light.

Why are you "naturally opening a pandoras box"? There are massive benefits that can be reaped from this technology. Of course, there are some risks - but then the same is true of any technology, including the most basic ones like fire and the wheel.

I'm not having a go at you here but do you have a reasoned argument that transgenics is inherentley dangerous or is this based on degrees of fear and ignorance (not having a go at you! promise!) born of a hysterical, fear-mongering news media and hollywood fantasy?

I think the point is that fire or the wheel can't naturally reproduce whereas a genetically modified organism can and will. Once such an organism is out of the lab you cannot control it and it's sheer arogance to think that you can. Even when it's in a lab it's not contained IMHO - see the recent foot and mouth outbreaks for proof of that.

You only have to look at what havoc a naturally occuring species can do when it gets into an ecosystem it's not evolved as part of.

I just don't think we understand the risks properly tbh.

Maybe the benefits do outweigh the risks but I'm not confident that we can accurately quantify the risks.

That said we don't control the world and I'm sure there are many places local governments will let bio tech companies do anything.

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Guest AuntJess
I think the point is that fire or the wheel can't naturally reproduce whereas a genetically modified organism can and will. Once such an organism is out of the lab you cannot control it and it's sheer arogance to think that you can. Even when it's in a lab it's not contained IMHO - see the recent foot and mouth outbreaks for proof of that.

You only have to look at what havoc a naturally occuring species can do when it gets into an ecosystem it's not evolved as part of.

I just don't think we understand the risks properly tbh.

Maybe the benefits do outweigh the risks but I'm not confident that we can accurately quantify the risks.

That said we don't control the world and I'm sure there are many places local governments will let bio tech companies do anything.

I am in your 'camp' as far as having reservations about 'tinkering about' with nature is concerned. It is unknown - or overlooked - by the public at large, that not all scientists are ethical: Being 'brainy' does NOT absolve them from also being psychopaths.

I think some people are hypnotised by a 'white coat' and a plausible rhetoric.

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I am in your 'camp' as far as having reservations about 'tinkering about' with nature is concerned. It is unknown - or overlooked - by the public at large, that not all scientists are ethical: Being 'brainy' does NOT absolve them from also being psychopaths.

I think some people are hypnotised by a 'white coat' and a plausible rhetoric.

Quite AJ. Intelligence does not equal wisdom.

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Maybe the benefits do outweigh the risks but I'm not confident that we can accurately quantify the risks.

the benifit always outweigh the risk when a potential military benifit can be gained and some scientists belived the first atomic test could take the whole of the earth out.

The bigest machine in the world is a partical accelorator and some argue it could create a black hole here on the earth that would suck everything in.

strange no time is spent on develping a cheap device to give me cheap energy at home.

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Guest anorthosite
I think the point is that fire or the wheel can't naturally reproduce whereas a genetically modified organism can and will.

Fire can reproduce quite well - just light a match in a gas filled room and watch it grow :lol:

Not all gentically modified organisms can reproduce - many popular plants are sterile hybrids, the same principle could be used in GM testing to prevent reproduction. Get any seed catalogue and have a look, many are listed as "F1" - which means they've been hybridised to make them more vigorous, but won't reproduce.

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Fire can reproduce quite well - just light a match in a gas filled room and watch it grow :lol:

Not all gentically modified organisms can reproduce - many popular plants are sterile hybrids, the same principle could be used in GM testing to prevent reproduction. Get any seed catalogue and have a look, many are listed as "F1" - which means they've been hybridised to make them more vigorous, but won't reproduce.

Ok fire can reproduce - in fact it exhibits many functions of living things! But apart from fire most human technologies can't reproduce.

Yes but Darwinian selection will tend to favour the mutation which enables reproduction. I'm not saying that they WILL reproduce "out of control" just that there is a risk which I don't think we fully understand.

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