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BlueColorSlave

Btl Landlord Sells Up

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I have a few anecdotes for you:

1) I sold my buy to let in Belfast 2 weeks ago, i made 128K in just over 2 years (probably closer to 110K once all the overheads taken into account). Point is i missed the peak by about 2 to 3 months and it cost me about 25K. That’s how quick it can turn. N. Ireland is ahead of the curve, the stagnation London has seen over the past month is a mirror image of what happened in Northern Ireland 6 months ago. If the pattern holds true in 3 to 4 months time we'll see at least a 5% drop London. Modest yes, personally I'm hoping for more due to London's over exposure to the financial services market.

2) My old work colleague’s sister is a partner in conveyancing firm, in Essex, she states the work is drying up fast and they are encouraging their staff to take annual leave. Ironically she’s still buying a BTL apartment, but at a significant 20% discount.

3) My wife’s work colleague had his mortgage provider withdraw their offer under a very weak pretext, basically didn't want to lend the money at that rate any more because the credit markets had turned. He (and the whole chain) where upset. The 2 people in the chain above him each made 5K concessions to keep the deal alive. He called his cousin over the weekend; his cousin is an estate agent in Walton On Thames. Basically his cousin said business had just dropped off to nothing in the past 5 to 6 weeks. Note this behaviour predates N.Rock. He has now pulled out of the purchase altogether.

My point is if you have been renting for years then do not buy now, hold out for 6 more months. No doubt the BOE will cut interest rates and no doubt the BBC news website will publish another dozen research papers sponsored by the CML (council of mortgage lenders) but just hold onto your deposit and wait.

I also have a few opinions for you:

1) Ultimately I’m biased as I want to see a HPC and thus get a nicer family home that with luck does not entail a 2 to 4 hour commute into the city. That said I believe a HPC is good for our society. Northern Ireland starting its housing boom 2 to 3 years late may have saved my bacon but I know exactly how unfair it is on those left behind. There must be millions of hard working young couples who are putting off starting families later and later to avoid bringing their children into a poverty trap. The house price boom has been one amoral feedback loop that has fed the profits of greedy landlords at the expense of younger generations.

2) It would be poetic justice to see the BTL industry in UK unfold as exponentially worse than that of the US sub prime market. At least those Americans for the most part stretched their finances in an attempt to better their families. Conversely the UK’s BTL investors ruthlessly exploited the old saying “It takes money to make money” at the direct expense of others. I only wish I had sold my Buy To Let in Belfast to another investor and not a family as I fear Northern Ireland will be as badly hit as London in the long run.

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Just because you have sold your BTL, don`t pretend you are so whiter than white

As you say yourself, you wish you has sold to an investor but you didn`t

You are not even a BTL but just a glorified flipper, sponging off people`s desperation to buy a home

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Just because you have sold your BTL, don`t pretend you are so whiter than white

As you say yourself, you wish you has sold to an investor but you didn`t

You are not even a BTL but just a glorified flipper, sponging off people`s desperation to buy a home

I have to agree, he seemed rather disappointed at not selling 2-3 months earlier thus losing ?25k. Idon't suppose he gave a discount to the family he seems to feel so much pity for after ripping them off. :angry:

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You are not even a BTL but just a glorified flipper, sponging off people`s desperation to buy a home

It is hypocritical to sit waiting for the bottom of a market whilst slagging off those selling at the top. The size of the market fluctuations are purely down to mass hysteria, without which none of this would be possible. Sure, if you're going to buy as soon as the house prices hit the historical mean and never STR after that, then you might have some moral superiority. Otherwise deal with it.

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I agree with all 3 of you, I used the same BTL feedback loop that screwed me over in London to exploit the situation in Belfast. Yes I’m a bit hypocritical complaining but just because I participated in it does not mean I’m going rationalise it as a good thing. As for ripping people, the family in question had their own house double in value over the past 2 years and I expect their mortgage is roughly consistent in size with what I was previously.

But come on chaps, just get over your desire to slag me off and appreciate the back ground evidence. I can see huge similarities between now and 5 or 6 months ago in Northern Ireland. I am in an unusual position of being comment on local knowledge from both areas. So to repeat my advice to those thinking of buying, don’t rush in when the BOE cuts rates but at the very least wait until January.

Ps

Your spot on, I don’t consider myself a real BTL Landlord, flipper is a much more accurate term.

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It is hypocritical to sit waiting for the bottom of a market whilst slagging off those selling at the top.

Of course they're doing nothing of the kind: they're slagging off people who buy a house in order to make a quick buck when others would like to have been able to afford to buy the house as a place to live.

Few of the people here hoping to buy a house at the bottom of the market seem to be planning to do so in order to sell at the top... they just want a decent place to live in for a sensible price. Flippers, on the other hand, are scum who are devastating the lives of millions of people in order to make a few quid.

Edited by MarkG

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Flippers, on the other hand, are scum who are devastating the lives of millions of people in order to make a few quid.

Well on my 2nd post on my first day on this web site i've been called scum. Thanks chaps. I thought the first 2 replies were abit vitrioloic but then the 3rd reply seems to bring some balance. Now however i'm just plain hurt. Myself and my wife graudated in 2001 and have been working like mad ever since. We want kids but don't want to bring into a world where there parents can't even gaurantee a roof over their head. We havn't taken a holiday in 5 years and are constantly saving. By 2005 i had saved a meager 22K, house prices had London were going up more in London per day than i was saving per month at one point. I took the decision to exploit what i could see was the same trend in N. Ireland, in a perfect world i wouldn't have had to.

Your the 3rd person to completely ingore the thrust of my first post and just personally attack me. Well i'n not going to insult you but i will repeat my advice, if you are hovering on whether to buy or not then don't. If the N.Irelnad pattern repeats in London true to form you will see clear price drops by January, even with the upcoming panic cut in BOE interest rates.

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Well on my 2nd post on my first day on this web site i've been called scum. Thanks chaps. I thought the first 2 replies were abit vitrioloic but then the 3rd reply seems to bring some balance. Now however i'm just plain hurt. Myself and my wife graudated in 2001 and have been working like mad ever since. We want kids but don't want to bring into a world where there parents can't even gaurantee a roof over their head. We havn't taken a holiday in 5 years and are constantly saving. By 2005 i had saved a meager 22K, house prices had London were going up more in London per day than i was saving per month at one point. I took the decision to exploit what i could see was the same trend in N. Ireland, in a perfect world i wouldn't have had to.

Your the 3rd person to completely ingore the thrust of my first post and just personally attack me. Well i'n not going to insult you but i will repeat my advice, if you are hovering on whether to buy or not then don't. If the N.Irelnad pattern repeats in London true to form you will see clear price drops by January, even with the upcoming panic cut in BOE interest rates.

You're the victim of misdirected anger. Rather than take it out on the people that engineered this crazy housing based economic mess (i.e. the government), some people prefer to take it out on anyone who sticks their head over the parapet and admits to playing the game since, as you point out, they'd have been screwed if they didn't. For whatever reasons, the political process in the UK seems to have broken down to the point where ordinary people - me included - can see no way of exerting any influence at all (we had poll tax riots, why not housing riots?) and this just makes them angry and bitter.

You're not scum btw, in a different era, all your hard work would have paid off with a decent sized house for you to bring your kids up in and general approval from anyone who cared to ask about how you'd got there.

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Apparently.

I certainly have no problem with BTL, I own a flat in Belfast since 2001, bought at asking price for 84k apparently now worth 220k. Not suitable for a family home, but rented now to provide income in retirement/accommodation in the future for my children at university.

I do object to people using the housing market as a pyramid scheme/stock market bubble because it ruins it for everyone. Greed causes people to buy and flip, don`t pretend there is another reason. But hey this is a capitalist democracy and as Mr Gecko said "Greed is good"

I could afford a small family home but why buy when renting is so much cheaper

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Just because you have sold your BTL, don`t pretend you are so whiter than white

As you say yourself, you wish you has sold to an investor but you didn`t

You are not even a BTL but just a glorified flipper, sponging off people`s desperation to buy a home

WHAT IS THE PROBLEM? He sold at the top and made a shed load - why not? Its a free world - or should be. Are you jealous?

He's a winner - rejoice don't berate. The idiots are the ones to berate - not him. He realises there will be an HPC. As I said what's your problem?

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WHAT IS THE PROBLEM? He sold at the top and made a shed load - why not? Its a free world - or should be. Are you jealous?

He's a winner - rejoice don't berate. The idiots are the ones to berate - not him. He realises there will be an HPC. As I said what's your problem?

Totally agree - you can't blame anyone for seeing an opportunity and making a few quid. Anger should be directed at the banks and the government who made this whole mess possible in the first place.

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Good facts there BCS. I’ve heard similar tales from a friend at work whose flat mate is an estate agent. Personally, I know loads of people who have bought BTLs up North as they cant afford the London prices so I don’t see anything wrong with ‘flipping’ if that’s what it takes to get yourself on the housing ladder.

The NI ahead of the curve theory strikes a cord with me. It would be nice to see a graph demonstrating this. For example comparing Liverpool, Birmingham, Bristol and London house prices during the last 2 HPC’s. Probably impossible to do this as the information would need to be reported per month to see if the trend really was repeated across the North South divide just months apart.

However I think you might be under estimating the impact of a rate cut on the public psyche. Only after the recent shocks am I noticing an improvement in the awareness of the general public regards realising that house prices can’t rise forever. A rate cut will send the masses into happy borrowing land again for another year until the reality of inflation kicks in.

Ps Did you actually mean spell you sign on name BlueCollarWorker, be honest now? ;)

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Nice anecdotal BCS, good one Please ignore the tedious remarks, they dont serve any useful purpose.......

by the way, I can go one better than you, in my first post I was called 'arrogant w@nker' by a complete half wit who plays holier than thou on this site.........amasing how brave people are when sat behind a keyboard :lol:

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Congratulations those of you who chased away another newbie poster with different side to the story.

WTF do you think you gain by coming down like a ton of bricks on anyone connected with BTL, owning a house, or anything else that doesnt equal being miles away from a first rung on the current overhyped housing ladder?

The guy even had a useful anecdotal that should have been music to your ears.................really big and clever to insult him for explaining it. Good grief :blink:

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Thanks wsn03, I haven’t completely walked away from this website however. I was going to being indignant and just never post again. However I’ve been really impressed with some the supportive comments made. Genuine, intelligent and considered opinions, exactly what I’d expect from users of one of my favourite sites as opposed to all that bitter fuelled written aggression. Those comments about misplaced anger etc were so accurate, really sums up a big flaw in our society. Anyway I just wanted to say “thanks people” and although I will not be posting in a hurry again I still look at this web site every day. It’s a gem of collated information and not just about house prices either.

Ps. Don’t you just wish the market would wise up and knock 20% + off their prices now instead slowly slogging it out for another year or 2 and then going on to over correct for another year or 2 after that. The whole HPC just looks so inevitable now. These days I might have a bit of a deposit but I don’t have the determination to wait 4 years, another 2 years waiting after the past 5 or 6 will be tolerable however.

Ps. ps. Yes Electric I did mean to spell it Collar, good spot.

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