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My ex's ex works for one of London's largest investment banks. He mentioned there will shortly be a series of very disappointing profit statements, layoffs, hiring freezes and negligible bonuses granted for his, and many of the cities other investment banks.

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My ex's ex works for one of London's largest investment banks. He mentioned there will shortly be a series of very disappointing profit statements, layoffs, hiring freezes and negligible bonuses granted for his, and many of the cities other investment banks.

Come on BoE, give these rich kids a break and get pumping the money into the system before someone ends up with only a 50k bonus instead of 150k!

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Come on BoE, give these rich kids a break and get pumping the money into the system before someone ends up with only a 50k bonus instead of 150k!

Yeah, come on Merv, some of these people are driving like 2 year old Porsches and haven't been to St Tropez for nearly 3 months.

I'm welling up just thinking about some of them having to go Business Class to Nice this winter.

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At the moment City banks are taking on loads of IT Contractors. They always do this prior to a downturn for one of two reasons:

1. Departments have a surge in staff numbers so that they can try to minimise the losses - contractors last in so contractors first out. If they play this just right the department can actually not lose any of it's current staff.

2. They are about to fire most of the permie IT staff probably due to a forthcoming spending freeze on IT and are bringing in contractors who will be on 4 week notice periods... i.e. flexible.

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At the moment City banks are taking on loads of IT Contractors. They always do this prior to a downturn for one of two reasons:

1. Departments have a surge in staff numbers so that they can try to minimise the losses - contractors last in so contractors first out. If they play this just right the department can actually not lose any of it's current staff.

2. They are about to fire most of the permie IT staff probably due to a forthcoming spending freeze on IT and are bringing in contractors who will be on 4 week notice periods... i.e. flexible.

Well thats progress of sorts. Originally in Canary Wharf, many years ago it would dockers who would queue up daily for any work. Now its IT contractors. I suppose they have a better hourly rate though.

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At the moment City banks are taking on loads of IT Contractors. They always do this prior to a downturn for one of two reasons:

1. Departments have a surge in staff numbers so that they can try to minimise the losses - contractors last in so contractors first out. If they play this just right the department can actually not lose any of it's current staff.

2. They are about to fire most of the permie IT staff probably due to a forthcoming spending freeze on IT and are bringing in contractors who will be on 4 week notice periods... i.e. flexible.

Interesting post. I had thought you were going to say that the IT people come in to devise more and more systems that do the work of staff, with the result being jobs lost but software managing the tasks previously performed by salaried workers. But your points were far more of an eye opener than that to the complex world of some City workplaces! I have much to learn...

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My ex's ex works for one of London's largest investment banks. He mentioned there will shortly be a series of very disappointing profit statements, layoffs, hiring freezes and negligible bonuses granted for his, and many of the cities other investment banks.

Did your ex's ex give a timeframe?

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I have worked in investment banks and well known US tech companies as a contractor and, in previous downturns, the permies - who hate contractors because they hate the money contractors charge and feel jealous about this - have always begun to gloat when rumours of redudancies begin. In all cases it has always been the permies who were booted out first and the contractors left. The permies are always shocked.

Quite simply, the contractors are a flexible workforce, on a 4 week notice period and although they charge higher hourly rates their REAL cost to an organisation is actually usually much less than a permie. Most permanent staff have no idea what their own real cost is to their employers - most usually think it is simply their salary.

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I have worked in investment banks and well known US tech companies as a contractor and, in previous downturns, the permies - who hate contractors because they hate the money contractors charge and feel jealous about this - have always begun to gloat when rumours of redudancies begin. In all cases it has always been the permies who were booted out first and the contractors left. The permies are always shocked.

Quite simply, the contractors are a flexible workforce, on a 4 week notice period and although they charge higher hourly rates their REAL cost to an organisation is actually usually much less than a permie. Most permanent staff have no idea what their own real cost is to their employers - most usually think it is simply their salary.

This is quite true. I have been a perm in investmemt banking for about 10 years now and you have a good point. Last time there was a downturn contractor rates where cut by up to 15 % and perms got ****** all bonus and no payrise, but there were very few layoffs. That's because of bad management. They see contractors as the "experts" and keep the perms doing all the infrastucture shite.

It all comes down to your perm salary. Now I'm on a high perm rate but I probably have a greater chance of being made redundant since they can get some grad to do all the crap.

Anyway the moral is, "don't go perm" and get the money while you can. I've just turned down a perm job since I want to go contracting. It's near 90 K a year before bonus and pension but let's face it, you can take home after tax near 6.5 K as a contractor so why risk the "bonus". Just get it evry day.

Saying all this I'd love to be made redundant at the mo. It's the best perm benifit esp if you can get into the first round. You get 3 months min tax free and 3 months notice period so that you don't sue.

Bring it on ;)

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I have worked in investment banks and well known US tech companies as a contractor and, in previous downturns, the permies - who hate contractors because they hate the money contractors charge and feel jealous about this - have always begun to gloat when rumours of redudancies begin. In all cases it has always been the permies who were booted out first and the contractors left. The permies are always shocked.

Quite simply, the contractors are a flexible workforce, on a 4 week notice period and although they charge higher hourly rates their REAL cost to an organisation is actually usually much less than a permie. Most permanent staff have no idea what their own real cost is to their employers - most usually think it is simply their salary.

Surely this breaches employment law. Has there been a test case?

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Saying all this I'd love to be made redundant at the mo. It's the best perm benifit esp if you can get into the first round. You get 3 months min tax free and 3 months notice period so that you don't sue.

I was at a very well known US tech company when the tech bubble burst - the first permies fired got very generous pay-offs. The second and third waves got far far less and were all cheesed off they were not fired during the first round. The ones who still had their jobs ended up hating the fact they had not been fired.

There is a moral there somewhere ;-)

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This is quite true. I have been a perm in investmemt banking for about 10 years now and you have a good point. Last time there was a downturn contractor rates where cut by up to 15 % and perms got ****** all bonus and no payrise, but there were very few layoffs. That's because of bad management. They see contractors as the "experts" and keep the perms doing all the infrastucture shite.

It all comes down to your perm salary. Now I'm on a high perm rate but I probably have a greater chance of being made redundant since they can get some grad to do all the crap.

Anyway the moral is, "don't go perm" and get the money while you can. I've just turned down a perm job since I want to go contracting. It's near 90 K a year before bonus and pension but let's face it, you can take home after tax near 6.5 K as a contractor so why risk the "bonus". Just get it evry day.

Saying all this I'd love to be made redundant at the mo. It's the best perm benifit esp if you can get into the first round. You get 3 months min tax free and 3 months notice period so that you don't sue.

Bring it on ;)

Its tax free up to the first 30K, if like you say are on 90K, then for 6 months worth you'll be hit with 15K at 40% tax.

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I was at a very well known US tech company when the tech bubble burst - the first permies fired got very generous pay-offs. The second and third waves got far far less and were all cheesed off they were not fired during the first round. The ones who still had their jobs ended up hating the fact they had not been fired.

There is a moral there somewhere ;-)

Maybe we worked in the same place :lol:

I got 7 months money in 2001. At that time it was and still is my first redundancy and was not a nice feeling. Now that I haven't bought a house and have a large amount of money in the bank and know I could survive for 12 months in Italy (by the sea) on 20 K, I would love and I mean I have already asked :ph34r: , be made redundant. 7 months money will be great. However no doubt the would just give me no bonus and a crap job, so that I leave.

F U C K E R S

:P

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At the moment City banks are taking on loads of IT Contractors. They always do this prior to a downturn for one of two reasons:

1. Departments have a surge in staff numbers so that they can try to minimise the losses - contractors last in so contractors first out. If they play this just right the department can actually not lose any of it's current staff.

2. They are about to fire most of the permie IT staff probably due to a forthcoming spending freeze on IT and are bringing in contractors who will be on 4 week notice periods... i.e. flexible.

I expect layoffs in the city are going to hit far more areas than just back office IT.

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Maybe we worked in the same place :lol:

I got 7 months money in 2001. At that time it was and still is my first redundancy and was not a nice feeling. Now that I haven't bought a house and have a large amount of money in the bank and know I could survive for 12 months in Italy (by the sea) on 20 K, I would love and I mean I have already asked :ph34r: , be made redundant. 7 months money will be great. However no doubt the would just give me no bonus and a cbleeeep job, so that I leave.

F bleeeeeep S

:P

Moderate your language, Central London, don't you realise this forum is read by young bankers and BoE top brass?

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My ex's ex works for one of London's largest investment banks. He mentioned there will shortly be a series of very disappointing profit statements, layoffs, hiring freezes and negligible bonuses granted for his, and many of the cities other investment banks.

I would not be surprised if there are targetted redundencies this year in the City, but as I also work for one of London's largest investment banks, I also get to discuss the rumours. As everyone has been through this before, as soon as the market starts going funny, everyone talks about redundencies, hiring freezes etc, but this is very unlikely to be leaked inside information.

I think profits and bonuses will bear up well in most banks, but with cuts in certain credit areas, particularly those relating to CDOs. The corporate finance departments will also suffer over the forthcoming year and to some extent the fixed income desks.

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Moderate your language, Central London, don't you realise this forum is read by young bankers and BoE top brass?

I hope so. Maybe they will learn from my mistakes :blink:. Also I have rejected the offer :lol:

Hiring freezes are already in place and the job cuts will start in the business followed by the typical "All departments should reduce their costs by 10 %"

People are scared, you can really see it. But I'm not since I don't have a mortgage I would love to see the downturn. I don't want firtst time buyers to suffer. They have just been stupid. It's the number of buy to let people I know that I would love to see falling flat on their faces. In fact, if they go bankrupt in a bank, I think this is classified as gross misconduct or at least as a "living bejond their means" threat, when it comes to possibility of fraud. Any record will get you sacked !

Ah well it's just going to get better as we approach the winter !!!!!!!!!!!!

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Guest Popalot

as I also work for one of London's largest investment banks.......I think profits and bonuses will bear up well in most banks

Mandy Rice Davies on Profumo "Well he would say that wouldn't he....." :P:P:P

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:lol::lol: , thats a good one.

They have managed it fairly well in the US with the financials reporting fairly good and better than expected 3rd qrt profits. None of the big ones so far have come close to making a loss because they have successfully pass on the junk, it will be interesting to see if our city boys live up to the hype and have successfully protected their banks and passed it onto foreign investors and our pension funds! :(

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:lol::lol: , thats a good one.

I believe it is 2008's profits that will really suffer. The first half of 2007 was already a bumper 6 months. Also, investment banks do not like having much direct exposure on their books, so the fall-out from all this may be 2nd-hand (though obviously not in Bear's case).

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I believe it is 2008's profits that will really suffer. The first half of 2007 was already a bumper 6 months. Also, investment banks do not like having much direct exposure on their books, so the fall-out from all this may be 2nd-hand (though obviously not in Bear's case).

Well even if they do well over the year they will use the slow down in the fourth quarter as a reason to reduce bonuses :lol:

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I believe it is 2008's profits that will really suffer. The first half of 2007 was already a bumper 6 months. Also, investment banks do not like having much direct exposure on their books, so the fall-out from all this may be 2nd-hand (though obviously not in Bear's case).

Probably true as most of this years profits will have been tucked away before the current storm broke.

Traders tend take their feet off the gas once they have made the number and try to avoid risk.

It is future business that is under threat.

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At the moment City banks are taking on loads of IT Contractors. They always do this prior to a downturn for one of two reasons:

1. Departments have a surge in staff numbers so that they can try to minimise the losses - contractors last in so contractors first out. If they play this just right the department can actually not lose any of it's current staff.

2. They are about to fire most of the permie IT staff probably due to a forthcoming spending freeze on IT and are bringing in contractors who will be on 4 week notice periods... i.e. flexible.

Not convinced that this is true, front office IT market has slowed markedly over the past month or so

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