Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum
crash2006

Northern Rock Shareholders' Plea

Recommended Posts

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/moneybox/7019729.stm

That plea was made to the BBC by the UK Shareholders' Association which called on the Treasury to support the bank

help help ! we dont want to lose our money back us up. the government should notIntervene, in NR its getting worse and worse, so many mouths to feed and so many handouts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They should sell now whilst they can get a bit of a return, the government should not intervene else they would have to prop up the share prices of all ailing companies

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I heard this prgramme. They have a point, the main one being a false market was created when important market information was kept behind closed doors (of course there is no such thing as closed doors where the city is concerned).

The big investors bailed out and kept most of their money, the small investor was screwed (and worse) many more were tempted in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/moneybox/7019729.stm

help help ! we dont want to lose our money back us up. the government should notIntervene, in NR its getting worse and worse, so many mouths to feed and so many handouts.

I was going to do a long post, but I won't. The small shareholders are concentrated in safe Labour seats, if they were in marginal seats it may have been different. But they aren't and it's not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I heard this prgramme. They have a point, the main one being a false market was created when important market information was kept behind closed doors (of course there is no such thing as closed doors where the city is concerned).

The big investors bailed out and kept most of their money, the small investor was screwed (and worse) many more were tempted in.

The Directors may have a case to answer but this hardly justifies a government bail out. Any way the selling trend in NR shares started at least 9 months before they went to the BOE for assistance. In that period the price almost halved. The clearest sell signal came when analysts issued a warning about profits in June 2007.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6244202.stm

If shareholders do not check the share price regularly and set their own stop-loss positions then they only have themselves to blame. Many got their stock for nothing when Northern Rock de-mutualised so are not likely to be winding up seriously out of pocket.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I was going to do a long post, but I won't. The small shareholders are concentrated in safe Labour seats, if they were in marginal seats it may have been different. But they aren't and it's not.

Hey, I'm a small (windfall) shareholder in a safe Tory seat! (at least for the next few weeks until I move to a marginal). I can't complain though, it is pure laziness on my part that I didn't sell my shares as I started to see them nose dive. I must say that I'm a bit surprised that we haven't received any correspondence from NR explaining the situation or that there will be no dividend but beyond that, it's just what can happen with shares really isn't it? Those who sold out early on wouldn't have been allowed to complain that they didn't know about NR's strategy and the forthcoming bull market which led to shares going up to £12. Mind you, would love to see Applepie forced to pay back his £1.35 million bonus - perhaps they could start a hedge fund with it to compensate shareholders :);)

Would be great to see the board held to account to stop banks playing fast and loose with investors' money in the future.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I heard this prgramme. They have a point, the main one being a false market was created when important market information was kept behind closed doors (of course there is no such thing as closed doors where the city is concerned).

The big investors bailed out and kept most of their money, the small investor was screwed (and worse) many more were tempted in.

I recall very little about any stock chatter (I'm not interested in shorting shares) but I do recall that there was a lot of chatter on boards like this and TMF saying that Northern Rock, Bradford and Bingly and Alliance & Leicester were all in trouble if things went bad - and when the credit crunch started in August then people were saying that these three banks and Paragon were in trouble. This was all in the public domain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest grumpy-old-man
I heard this prgramme. They have a point, the main one being a false market was created when important market information was kept behind closed doors (of course there is no such thing as closed doors where the city is concerned).

The big investors bailed out and kept most of their money, the small investor was screwed (and worse) many more were tempted in.

I warned a guy a few weeks before NR went down about the coming problems. He has just told me that his son bought £1500 of NR shares last week at approx £1.90 :blink::blink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I recall very little about any stock chatter (I'm not interested in shorting shares) but I do recall that there was a lot of chatter on boards like this and TMF saying that Northern Rock, Bradford and Bingly and Alliance & Leicester were all in trouble if things went bad - and when the credit crunch started in August then people were saying that these three banks and Paragon were in trouble. This was all in the public domain.

Well most of that was looking at the companies on a fundamental basis in the belief (correctly) that at some point the pyramid scheme in which they were operating would at some poit would fall apart and there was an obvious list of companies who had the biggest exposure to such a situation.

That is quite different to knowing damn well that a company is htting a credit wall at full steam and in dire need of money/rescue funding/rapid about tuen in credit finance markets to continue operations in any normal manner or indeed stay solvent at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

U.S. hedge funds set to talk to Northern Rock: paper

Doubt if they'll be paying > £1.00 per share?

LONDON (Reuters) - The Treasury has given two U.S. hedge funds permission to start takeover talks with stricken British mortgage lender Northern Rock Plc <NRK.L>, the Sunday Telegraph newspaper reported.

The Treasury was not immediately available for comment.

The paper said JC Flowers and Cerberus met John Kingman, head of the Treasury's enterprise and growth unit, last week to discuss their separate proposals.

The government has effective control of Northern Rock (LSE: NRK.L - news) because of emergency funding being supplied by the Bank of England.

The Sunday Telegraph said the hedge funds would meet Northern Rock's adviser, Merrill Lynch (NYSE: MER - news) , in coming days.

Separately, the Independent on Sunday newspaper reported Northern Rock had collected more than 100 million pounds ($203 million) in penalty fees from savers who took money out of accounts during the run on the bank earlier this month.

Northern Rock says on its Web site it will repay those penalty fees to savers who reinvest the funds in the same account by October 5.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm puzzled why the shareholders haven't lynched the board rather than grumble to the Treasury. Without the Treasury bailout they would have been looking at trying to get their money back via administrators.

They should be calling for an extra-ordinary meeting and taking out their ire on Messrs Applepie and co.

That £100million in early redemption/interest penalties. Supposedly only 2bn of deposits were withdrawn. That equates to 5% of all monies take out. Can that be correct? 5% sounds a very high figure for early interest penalties. Or does it indicate the withdrawals were much greater than £2bn.

NR's offer to waive the penalties only if they re-deposit their money in the same accounts is a tricky one. I guess the fact that the govt. have underwritten them should mean they are "safe" to do so, but if it were my money I wouldn't want to trust them with it. NR really are a bunch of chancers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sounds like the Rail Track fiasco all over again........man behind that Alistair Darling, man behind a hurried sale of Northern Rock = Alistair Darling. Not that I'm pointing fingers!

If I remember rightly that was Steven "Bozo" Byers who was Transport Secretary at the time. Darling came in later.

From Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railtrack#Renationalisation

To bring Railtrack's administration to an end, the Government assisted in the formation of Network Rail, which bought Railtrack PLC from RT Group. Network Rail is a company without shareholders, and the Government insists that it is a private sector company, accountable to the public interest through regulation by the Office of Rail Regulation.

In Parliament on 24 October 2005, Stephen Byers MP - the Secretary of State for Transport in 2001 - referring to the administration of Railtrack and the subsequent sale of Railtrack plc to Network Rail - said he would make no apology for "unwinding the Tory privatisation that was Railtrack". (House of Commons, Official Report, 24 October 2005, Col 66)

In October 2002 in the House of Lords government minister Lord McIntosh of Haringey, in answering a question, said: “The Question is about the West Coast main line, and it is true that the cost has escalated from a little over £2 billion to £10 billion. That shows incredible lack of control and forethought by Railtrack. We must get a grip of it, and we are getting a grip of it. However, we were able to get a grip of it only after it went into administration and we were able to take the company back again.” [italics added] (House of Lords, Official Report, 17 October 2002, Cols 953-956).

And on 1 February 2007, the Leader of the House of Commons (Jack Straw) said: "... rail privatisation ... was one of the most catastrophic reorganisations, which we have had to resolve, and having done that — [ Interruption. ] The hon. Member for Wellingborough (Mr. Bone) may mock, but we brought Network Rail into public ownership ..." [italics added] (House of Commons, Official Report, 1 February 2007, Col 363).

What did Darling have to do with this?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
When Northern Rock converted from a building society in October 1997, every member was given 500 shares worth £4.51 each - a windfall of £2255.

The share price peaked at £12.51 in February 2007, valuing this windfall at £6225.

F**K YOU nationwide for having integrity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That is quite different to knowing damn well that a company is htting a credit wall at full steam and in dire need of money/rescue funding/rapid about tuen in credit finance markets to continue operations in any normal manner or indeed stay solvent at all.

If investors had looked at the business model in the Annual Report they would have known the risk of this though and decided if they were in the risk business or not. Paragon have funding until February. They may well source more funding or they may not. Investors should know this and make their investment decision accordingly. The information is public.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Doubt if they'll be paying > £1.00 per share?

More on this here...

Hedge Funds Cleared To Buy Rock.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtm...0/cnrock130.xml

....and for something completely different ( almost ).

Northern Rock Accused Of Bullying Debtors.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/cash/story/0,,2179947,00.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was at a casino in London a few weeks ago and lost a few hundred quid on blackjack and roulette. Should the BoE bail me out?

The shareholders are clutching at straws. They have absolutely no chance of anything. They are not entitled to anything from the BoE, government or the tooth fairy.

Stocks and shares are what they are. You can lose everything you invest.

The only avenue of recompense is the board of directors but considering the billions lost, it is a fruitless exercise.

The only investors i feel sorry for is the employees of NR who may have had shares.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel sorry for the turkey at Xmas but ..........

Dead meat is dead meat. Endowment policies, Equitable life and now money grubbing marginal banks chasing silly profits.They're all the same, yesterday's fodder of as much consequence as sawdust soaking up the blood on the abbatoir floor.

Plenty more to come but please keep sentiment to a minimum, it has no clotting value.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Absolutely.

Any shareholder who knew their stuff would have got out on the 9th August (if they hadn't already) when the credit markets seized up.

Any shareholder who didn't has just learned a vaulable lesson. Hopefully they are now a little wiser.

I suspect many thought about selling but didn't want to turn a 'paper loss' into a 'real loss'. Expect to see this irrational behaviour repeated by many amateur BTLers over the coming few years.

LOL believe it or not there are fools buying even today.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At moments like these when shareholders start bleating I'm reminded of words to the effect of:

If you could happily burn the amount of money you wish to invest in the stock market then go ahead.

Edited by sossij

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • 355 The Prime Minister stated that there were three Brexit options available to the UK:

    1. 1. Which of the Prime Minister's options would you choose?


      • Leave with the negotiated deal
      • Remain
      • Leave with no deal



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.