Gordon Brown Says High House Prices Don't Matter

[Sonic the Hedge Fund]

See the right hand graph of the two below. So NO, he is wrong on the mortgage debts!!!

Scott

Another great graph, this one says it all

last time housing costs (proportional to income) did not peak until 1991, well into the crash when inflation and IRs soared, this time around housing costs are already nearly at the same level as the previous peak....and the crash is only just begining.

Looks like the coming months are going to be very painfull for a lot of OOs

Edited September 23, 2007 by Sonic the Hedge Fund

[Levy process]

That's exactly what I thought, I've just seen the one eyed nerd on the News 24 multi screen.

The guy IS infuriating. He is lying by omission and also spinning like f**k.

Like you say, the 15% episode was short lived.

He said that the enormous debt is a good thing because it indicates that 2 million more people have been able to buy their own homes than under the Tories. HELLLLLLLOOOOO, almost 1 million of those are BTL, you freak!!! Also, add on the fact that many have been panicked into buying, thanks to a daily injection of Property Porn and dire warnings of 'buy now or be left out in the cold' by, amongst others, good old Auntie.

He's also said that we had 3 million unemployed under the Tories. Is it just me that knows that we have more now? There are around 2.5m on incapacity benefit alone. Oh, hang on, you're not unemployed if you're off on the sick are you?

FFS.

I'm going to scream hallelujah when this lying f**k is made to sit and watch his popularity seep away as Britain's Economic miracle evaporates. :angry: :angry:

p.s. Why are top two positions in the govt occupied by Scotsmen?

I have to say I find this post to be a stunning example of bitter and vitriolic language, something I was accused of using last week when making far milder comments about my support for deposits in banks. In my opinion, bulls and neithers very rarely resort to this sort of foaming at the mouth, or this snarling language exemplified in the post above, except when they are put upon with personal attacks based on lies. On the other hand that sort of language seems to be standard fare for a lot of bears. I note the way the post almost stumbles into racism at the end too. Classic bear output.

[Krackersdave]

It's not all bad (English history) by the same token it's not all good but then name me a nation on the planet that is (Scotland one presumes)

I could say I hope your proud of your no1 human export (Brown) though you clearly see him for the prime turd he is so not much point.

Yes - Wallace was a unique character - a true patriotic hero. However England also has such men in her history, so can we reel back in the necks, stow the Anti-English, Anti-Scots racisit BS and PLEASE discuss houseprices???

BTW the redcoat army that defeated the Jacobites at Culloden was primary manned by low-land Scots, who had no desire to see a Catholic king returned to the throne of either England OR Scotland.

[R K]

See the right hand graph of the two below. So NO, he is wrong on the mortgage debts!!!

I wonder to what extent the incomes % graph is also masking the IO and BTL mortgages. Or indeed how they are reflected in the figures.

It says "interest and repayments" but I would imagine it is not likely that they stripped out IO/BTL, and hence are understating the present situation.

Does anyone have any thoughts how this might be significant? or would endowment mortgages back in 90/91 have a similar effect to IO mortgages now?

[Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz]

Yes - Wallace - sacked the city of York and ordered his conquering army to not to harm 'even one' civilian if I remember correctly. Then returned to Scotland cos he saw no benefit in pushing further south after he'd made his point. Then you treated him like that. I hope you're proud of your English history. Gordon will return home eventually too - after you're economy is totally shafted!

Just read Fire and Sword by John Prebble - v interesting. Really don't think that the Jacobite Rebellion, Culloden and the ethnic cleansing the redcoats carried out afterwards can't be seen purely as a Scotland v England affair though. Many in Northern England supported Bonnie Prince Charlie, though not to the extent that many would take up arms for him. Indeed, some of my forefathers were Welsh Jacobites and had their estates confiscated by the crown to pay them back for their support of the 1715 rising in Scotland (but then granted back to them as they were related to the right people).

Having read about William Wallace, the episode that shocked my above all was the sacking of Berwick, which was in Scotland at that time - virtually the whole population of the town was slaughtered by Edward I's English army, and the victims were buried in mass graves around the town. It should be remembered that the townsmen, women and children he slaughtered included English and Flemings.

Edited September 24, 2007 by gruffydd

[lulu]

Yes - Wallace was a unique character - a true patriotic hero. However England also has such men in her history, so can we reel back in the necks, stow the Anti-English, Anti-Scots racisit BS and PLEASE discuss houseprices???

BTW the redcoat army that defeated the Jacobites at Culloden was primary manned by low-land Scots, who had no desire to see a Catholic king returned to the throne of either England OR Scotland.

Dont confuse the Scots with facts like that - I am told that more Scots fought on the 'English' side than there were Scots on the 'Scots' side but they all conveniently forget that when banging on about.

[Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz]

True, but a great deal of the sectarianism that turned the lowlands against the highlands, and caused sectarian division within highland communities, emanated from England.

Edited September 24, 2007 by gruffydd

[It is different this time]

``House prices are higher, and yes, people are having to take out bigger mortgages,'' Brown said. ``But on average people are spending a lower proportion of their income on mortgages and debt than in the early 1990s.''

A lower proportion of their income on mortgages and debt? Can this be true?

Err average house price is £200k @ 6% = £1300pm so how can people spend lower proportion of their income on mortgages and debt than in the early 1990s?

Maybe he thinks that in our strong & stable economy! average salary is £60K, what a muppet.

[iamnumerate]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...MY&refer=uk

Consumer Debt

He said the level of consumer debt in the country, which is at a record high of 1.3 trillion pounds, wasn't causing financial difficulties.

``House prices are higher, and yes, people are having to take out bigger mortgages,'' Brown said. ``But on average people are spending a lower proportion of their income on mortgages and debt than in the early 1990s.''

A lower proportion of their income on mortgages and debt? Can this be true?

Of course it is true. If as young person you are renting a room rather than buying a house as you would have done before Labour - then you spend a lot less money on debt.

It is not a good thing though !

[Guest pioneer31]

I have to say I find this post to be a stunning example of bitter and vitriolic language, something I was accused of using last week when making far milder comments about my support for deposits in banks. In my opinion, bulls and neithers very rarely resort to this sort of foaming at the mouth, or this snarling language exemplified in the post above, except when they are put upon with personal attacks based on lies. On the other hand that sort of language seems to be standard fare for a lot of bears. I note the way the post almost stumbles into racism at the end too. Classic bear output.

Oh dear, you really are clutching at straws aren't you? Typical 'loser' tactics - when you can't win the argument, play the race card. Nice little diversion tactic but you can't dispute my points - GB is a liar.

My question was genuine. In a country where Scots make up 10-15% of the entire population, we have 2 Scots in the two top positions. Is that Racist remark? Maybe in your little fantasy world.

Edited September 24, 2007 by pioneer31

[iamnumerate]

p.s. Why are top two positions in the govt occupied by Scotsmen?

Because we ARE the master race!!

We run the UK government as well as having our own government to give us lots of nice stuff the English can't afford! Look on it as payback for the time after the Battle of Culloden when your troops went around murdering any children they came across. XXX

Wow what amazing ignorance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cul...Government_Army

The British Army under Cumberland, assembled and trained at Aberdeen, was well supplied. It included:

* Three regiments of Scottish horse; Kerr's Dragoons protected the left flank, led by Lord Mark Kerr, chief of Clan Kerr. Possibly also included some German Hanoverians.

* Twelve battalions of foot, two thirds were English and one third was made from Scottish Lowland and Scottish Highland clansmen:

* One battalion and a militia had been largely raised from Clan Campbell Scottish Highlanders.

* James Sinclair, chief of the Highland Clan Sinclair commanded The Royal Scots along with Charles Cathcart.

* Three battalions of Scottish Lowlanders foot soldiers supported the government at Culloden from Clan Cathcart, Clan Colville, Clan Sempill, Clan Kerr and Clan Cunningham (company of artillery). Most of the these clans fought in mixed regiments such as The Royal Scots Regiment of Foot and some were under the name of an English officer such as Barrel's Regiment of Foot.

* Other Highland clans such as the Clan MacKay, Clan Munro, Clan Ross, Clan Sutherland, Clan Gunn and Clan Grant, sided with the government during the uprisings but were assigned other military duties at the time of Culloden and were not present at this battle. The Clan MacKay intercepted and captured gold and supplies to stop them reaching Jacobite leader Bonnie Prince Charlie before the battle commenced and the Clan Ross defended Inverness Castle against the Jacobites. It is often suggested that men from these clans fought for the government at Culloden but there is little if any evidence for this.

Also there were 300 english in Bonnie Prince Charlies' army but they were not at Culloden.

[iamnumerate]

True, but a great deal of the sectarianism that turned the lowlands against the highlands, and caused sectarian division within highland communities, emanated from England.

Have you heard of John Knox ?

Do you think that the fact that it rains a lot in Scotland is the English fault as well ?

[Solvent Celt]

Just read Fire and Sword by John Prebble - v interesting. Really don't think that the Jacobite Rebellion, Culloden and the ethnic cleansing the redcoats carried out afterwards can't be seen purely as a Scotland v England affair though. Many in Northern England supported Bonnie Prince Charlie, though not to the extent that many would take up arms for him. Indeed, some of my forefathers were Welsh Jacobites and had their estates confiscated by the crown to pay them back for their support of the 1715 rising in Scotland (but then granted back to them as they were related to the right people).

Having read about William Wallace, the episode that shocked my above all was the sacking of Berwick, which was in Scotland at that time - virtually the whole population of the town was slaughtered by Edward I's English army, and the victims were buried in mass graves around the town. It should be remembered that the townsmen, women and children he slaughtered included English and Flemings.

From what I've read rape, looting and butchery were pretty much par for the course at the time unfortunately.

[bear_or_bull]

Err average house price is £200k @ 6% = £1300pm so how can people spend lower proportion of their income on mortgages and debt than in the early 1990s?

Maybe he thinks that in our strong & stable economy! average salary is £60K, what a muppet.

That's not what he meant. He was referring to national averages, across all those who own houses. So that includes those who bought in the 70s now sat on £700k of house with a £5k mortgage.

What he is really saying is he doesn't give a rats **** about the generation coming through trying to get on, or up, the ladder. You don't vote, you don't strike. You just sit there.

The massive, unprecedented debt is balanced by those monies transfering to massive, unprecedented wealth (to the voting class). Basically they are getting rich based on the future earnings of the recent buyers...

Basically it was clear, conclusive, public evidence that he doesn't care about those that missed the boat. And he probably just reflects the national average.

And he neglected to mention that what is "affordable" today doesn't get eroded by inflation like the past. The first year cash flow might not yet be at records, but from year three it is. The system is currently maximising the money you must pay to the banks (and those lucky early owners) by spreading the payments efficiently through time.

Makes me mad as a bag on monkeys.

And as for Scotland/England bashing... Wasn't the first king of the united England and Scotland a Scot? So didn't the invasion go the other way around? Shouldn't it be the English rising up against 400 years of tyranny from scotland? Wind your neck in. The anti-Englishness in Scotland is such a bloody cliche.

[joey]

That's exactly what I thought, I've just seen the one eyed nerd on the News 24 multi screen.

The guy IS infuriating. He is lying by omission and also spinning like f**k.

Like you say, the 15% episode was short lived.

He said that the enormous debt is a good thing because it indicates that 2 million more people have been able to buy their own homes than under the Tories. HELLLLLLLOOOOO, almost 1 million of those are BTL, you freak!!! Also, add on the fact that many have been panicked into buying, thanks to a daily injection of Property Porn and dire warnings of 'buy now or be left out in the cold' by, amongst others, good old Auntie.

He's also said that we had 3 million unemployed under the Tories. Is it just me that knows that we have more now? There are around 2.5m on incapacity benefit alone. Oh, hang on, you're not unemployed if you're off on the sick are you?

FFS.

I'm going to scream hallelujah when this lying f**k is made to sit and watch his popularity seep away as Britain's Economic miracle evaporates. :angry: :angry:

p.s. Why are top two positions in the govt occupied by Scotsmen?

15% on a 30K to 40k loan which on average started at 9% to 10% when they bought the house to 170K to 200K loan on 6% - 7% in 2007. Graduate wage 1990 14k to 18k. Graduate wage 2007 almost the same.

Edited September 24, 2007 by joey

[Garry AKA Pod]

Exactly!!! WE don't want their crap but are perfectly happy for YOU to have it! Enjoy!!!

I bet you still watch Eastenders and Corrie don't you? Bet you support an English football team. I'll stab at either Man Utd or Liverpool.

Your the same. You just have a different accent and more countryside per person.

Ock aye tha nou!

[symo]

Errrr back on topic, because lets face it Gordon is a twit of which I can find plenty of English, Scottish, Welsh and Irish Twats too.

``House prices are higher, and yes, people are having to take out bigger mortgages,'' Brown said. ``

Which I find a bit rich coming from a man paid out of my taxes, clothed out of my taxes and more importatly second homed out of my taxes.

****

[stew]

Oh dear, Bell End Brown is on BBC Parliament right now doing his speech

[Levy process]

Oh dear, you really are clutching at straws aren't you? Typical 'loser' tactics - when you can't win the argument, play the race card. Nice little diversion tactic but you can't dispute my points - GB is a liar.

My question was genuine. In a country where Scots make up 10-15% of the entire population, we have 2 Scots in the two top positions. Is that Racist remark? Maybe in your little fantasy world.

I wasn't commenting on the validity of the points you were making, but the tone and language you were using. You still sound pretty angry and bitter in your response above too.

As to your question about why the top two government posts are held by Scots, any conclusions you might try to draw would be based on small-number-statistics, and so wouldn't in themselves mean anything much. If your point is the much wider one that Scotland now has a hugely disproportionate amount of power in the UK, I'd totally agree with you (and I'm orignally from there). But I got the feeling from your post that wasn't really what you wanted to say. I suggest again, that your bitter and angry language gives you away.

No, I still think my point was well made: many bears on here are at least as angry and bitter on average as anyone else. I think it again comes back to the fact that bear, bull or neither isn't for most a reflection of what they think will happen, but what they would like to see happen. Not in my case though. I would like to see house prices falling and social justice revived in many other ways also. For the likes of you and many other bears on here, I think you are bearish in what you'd like to see happen, but because for the past several years, against many expectations, it simply hasn't happened, you're getting more and more angry about it. Your anger spills over into furious and spiteful language, presumably a result of the anger and powerlessness you feel over the situation.

Edited September 24, 2007 by Levy process

[thecrashingisles]

Oh dear, Bell End Brown is on BBC Parliament right now doing his speech

He's just said that he will solve the housing problem with "more shared equity and homes for key workers" :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

[OnlyMe]

He's just said that he will solve the housing problem with "more shared equity and homes for key workers" :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

Non-key workers (i.e. those outside the public sector) get err shitshare.

About time non-key workers became non-taxpayers if they are effectively second class citizens.

[symo]

.... and I will solve world hunger by having a fig roll with my afternoon cup of char.

[iamnumerate]

He's just said that he will solve the housing problem with "more shared equity and homes for key workers" :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

He has said that before why does he need to solve it again.

[stuckmojo]

the thougth of shared equity makes my blood boil.

Work hard, pay taxes, save money ,and ONE DAY you'll be able to get into a mountain of debt to get a SHARE of a shoebox.

That is utter madness!

[Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz]

Isn't it chilling to think that Brown is rather popular with the Great British public