The Pound In Your Pocket Is Now Worth 25p

[Guest pioneer31]

Imagine the uproar if the govt announced that - they'd be out of office within 48 hrs. Yet for FTB's, that's exactly how it is. MASSIVE inflation. Of course homeowners are unaffected, so we just have a section of society (the one's who don't matter apparently) suffering this currency devaluation.

Why isn't there civil unrest? In 1991 the Poll Tax caused RIOTS in our city centres. This then caused the fastest pushing through of a bill I've ever seen (The Council Tax). The irony being that the CT now makes the pips squeak more than the PT ever did.

[JohnG]

Why isn't there civil unrest? In 1991 the Poll Tax caused RIOTS in our city centres.

Wrong. The Poll Tax riots were stirred up by committed left wing trouble makers, many of whom now 'live' in Government.

Dawn Primarolo, Paymaster General for many years, is renowned for refusing to pay her tax, which she never did. Now she preaches about other people paying the 'right' amount of tax.

She should have been jailed at the time and barred for life from holding public office.

No doubt one of our more able researchers will be able to provide a list of high profile sh1t stirrers.

[Harry Sacks]

Imagine the uproar if the govt announced that - they'd be out of office within 48 hrs. Yet for FTB's, that's exactly how it is. MASSIVE inflation. Of course homeowners are unaffected, so we just have a section of society (the one's who don't matter apparently) suffering this currency devaluation.

Why isn't there civil unrest? In 1991 the Poll Tax caused RIOTS in our city centres. This then caused the fastest pushing through of a bill I've ever seen (The Council Tax). The irony being that the CT now makes the pips squeak more than the PT ever did.

This is a great question, one that I've thought about quite a bit.

I think the answer is that people don't understand what inflation really is.

[JoeDavola]

The scary thing today is that people just accept things.

I don't think ANYTHING would cause a riot - except maybe cutting the scroungers benefits. The spongers of this country would be more likely to stand up for themselves than the workers.

[Guest AuntJess]

Wrong. The Poll Tax riots were stirred up by committed left wing trouble makers, many of whom now 'live' in Government.

Dawn Primarolo, Paymaster General for many years, is renowned for refusing to pay her tax, which she never did. Now she preaches about other people paying the 'right' amount of tax.

She should have been jailed at the time and barred for life from holding public office.

No doubt one of our more able researchers will be able to provide a list of high profile sh1t stirrers.

I confess I suspected as much at the time. Brits. are not renowned for taking to the streets that readily.

[BTLlivingthedream]

Imagine the uproar if the govt announced that - they'd be out of office within 48 hrs. Yet for FTB's, that's exactly how it is. MASSIVE inflation. Of course homeowners are unaffected, so we just have a section of society (the one's who don't matter apparently) suffering this currency devaluation.

Why isn't there civil unrest? In 1991 the Poll Tax caused RIOTS in our city centres. This then caused the fastest pushing through of a bill I've ever seen (The Council Tax). The irony being that the CT now makes the pips squeak more than the PT ever did.

Imagine a frog in cold bucket of water on a slowly simmering flame.....this is how this works.

Thatcher's mistake was that she hit people to hard and too obviously. The council tax largely acheived what she set out to do i.e. a regressive local tax where a state pensioner pays the same as a mutli-millionaire if they live in a house within the same banding, except the flame was kept on a low simmer for a number of years. You never know that you are in chains until you get off your knees....

[huw]

The council tax largely acheived what she set out to do i.e. a regressive local tax where a state pensioner pays the same as a mutli-millionaire if they live in a house within the same banding

No, the crucial thing about poll tax was that it was per head, an individual responsibility. Council tax is per-property (with a nod toward single people). Four people sharing, generating 4x as much rubbish etc. will pay less than the single pensioner next door.

(typo)

Edited September 22, 2007 by huw

[Darkman]

Why isn't there civil unrest? In 1991 the Poll Tax caused RIOTS in our city centres.

I posted a thread a few days ago asking pretty much the same question. But it wasn't allowed through to the board for some reason

I think it's a perfectly valid point to raise. And it surprises me there haven't been major demonstrations about the current dire situation. Half the reason it is allowed to continue is no one is speaking up about it.

[PunK BeaR]

This is a great question, one that I've thought about quite a bit.

I think the answer is that people don't understand what inflation really is.

I agree. Most people have heard of it but dont know exactly how it affects them. It is also fairly stealthy as it slowly eats away at your average persons cash and people dont notice the gradual change. Tried explaining to some people at my work a few months back about inflation and how we will effectively take a pay cut if our yearly pay increase is lower than inflation. Might as well been talking to a brick wall. Unless the price of the weekly shop skyrockets in a very short space of time i dont think the people are interested.

[BTLlivingthedream]

No, the crucial thing about poll tax was that it was per head, an individual responsibility. Council tax is per-property (with a nod toward single people). Four people sharing, generating 4x as much rubbish etc. will pay less than the single pensioner next door.

(typo)

I say tomatoes....

[winkie]

This is a great question, one that I've thought about quite a bit.

I think the answer is that people don't understand what inflation really is.

Form what I can remember of the 70's period of inflation a tin of beans or a loaf of bread was one price one month and double it the following month, not a very nice experience to go through.

[oracle]

The scary thing today is that people just accept things.

I don't think ANYTHING would cause a riot - except maybe cutting the scroungers benefits. The spongers of this country would be more likely to stand up for themselves than the workers.

The problem remains,the amplitude of the disquiet will be greater.

so all the disgruntled masses need now is a focal point for their anger.

obviously it will be a diversion from the real perpatrators of the problem.Benefits will be cut,and the recipients of said benefits will look to those who have taken the jobs they couldn't be arsed to do,to take their aggression out on.

same as the 1970's.

...this time we have the muslim terrorist angle too.

..so all will be tarred with the same brush.A nationalist backlash is a distinct possibility.Shame really,because most immigrants,and descndents of..myself included,don't take the piss out of benefits.

the real culprits are the governments,for not setting the education and family standards high enough.

Businesses need disciplined people to survive,and if they cannot get people here who are able to read and write properly,they have every right to look for better employees elsewhere.

[winkie]

The problem remains,the amplitude of the disquiet will be greater.

so all the disgruntled masses need now is a focal point for their anger.

obviously it will be a diversion from the real perpatrators of the problem.Benefits will be cut,and the recipients of said benefits will look to those who have taken the jobs they couldn't be arsed to do,to take their aggression out on.

same as the 1970's.

...this time we have the muslim terrorist angle too.

..so all will be tarred with the same brush.A nationalist backlash is a distinct possibility.Shame really,because most immigrants,and descndents of..myself included,don't take the piss out of benefits.

the real culprits are the governments,for not setting the education and family standards high enough.

Businesses need disciplined people to survive,and if they cannot get people here who are able to read and write properly,they have every right to look for better employees elsewhere.

The world is a small place and we all have to share it.

Change is hard, and the past was bliss warts and all, what does the future hold? fear and uncertainty.

[pasquino]

Imagine a frog in cold bucket of water on a slowly simmering flame.....this is how this works.

Thatcher's mistake was that she hit people to hard and too obviously. The council tax largely acheived what she set out to do i.e. a regressive local tax where a state pensioner pays the same as a mutli-millionaire if they live in a house within the same banding, except the flame was kept on a low simmer for a number of years. You never know that you are in chains until you get off your knees....

In 1991 the houses were NOT an national asset like today.

Assuming that the vast majority of english people own their house not all of them are speculators but probably the other way round.

Put yourself in the shoes of a middle aged or mature man/woman/couple.

yes the cost of living in general is increasing but how much? For someone who knows that his house is now worth five times more than years ago the issue will not be of such importance to push him/her to riot.Even if the cost of mortgages are going up consider that most of the mortgages taken fifteen years ago are now almost paid and, be objective, a rise of two or three hundred pounds a MONTH for a married working couple is not the end of the world.

The younger people should riot but at what price? They are already mentally and phisically overstretched from everyday`s stress to even consider in the small free time left to protest maybe in central london (hours of commuting, risk to be arrested, maybe loss of overtime working hours and so on...)

The pensioners? Most of them are sitting on a gold mine grace of the absurd increase in house prices.

If and ever a REAL heavy crash happens( not only of house prices but also shares combined with an argentinian inflation rate) probably riots or massive demonstrations will start, but now, honestly I cannot see real signs of this happening.

It seems to me that Neulabour lernt the lesson very well , I must admit that the so called Spin doctors are not idiots at all but real "connoisseurs" of the human nature if they managed even now to rely on a massive majority in the pools.

The complicity of the media (sun?) is not helping, put on top the disgusting and partial BBC coverage and you will see that riots are years away.

The main opposition party (tories) realised that is going to be much better act like incompetent idiots, lose the next election, wait for the crash( which will appen but not so soon) and get rid of labour for generations- better lose one election being sure to win the next three or four if not more-

[Guest pioneer31]

Imagine a frog in cold bucket of water on a slowly simmering flame.....this is how this works.

That's how the entire tax system works though isn't it. Slowly, slowly....

The scary thing is that I'm sure a lot of people are becoming used to these ridiculous prices - it's been so long that they can't remember them being anything else, so they accept this as the norm. They need a reminder, a history lesson, front page of The Sun

[VacantPossession]

Wrong. The Poll Tax riots were stirred up by committed left wing trouble makers, many of whom now 'live' in Government.

Goodness gracious. Assuming you are not joking, are you seriously suggesting that objecting to a tax based on "I exist, therefore I pay" has only ever been the preserve of Dave Spart and his hippy friends? And moving on, are you therefore seriously suggesting that agreeable and civilised 70 year olds who are holding banners towards council offices up and down the country against the council tax are there because they are members of a far left plot?

Do wake up. I thought the days have been long gone since any objection expressed to anything that smacks of unfairness is deemed a left wing conspiracy.

Yours is the language of the ignorant knee jerk far right. Get a sense of proportion. You'll be saying next that anyone who objects to the Iraq invasion must be a communist.

VP

Edited September 22, 2007 by VacantPossession

[Guest mSparks]

The scary thing today is that people just accept things.

I don't think ANYTHING would cause a riot - except maybe cutting the scroungers benefits. The spongers of this country would be more likely to stand up for themselves than the workers.

Thats because the workers are so tired when they get home from their 12 hour, 4 day a week shifts, they're lucky if they can remember to cook for themselves, starting a riot is the last thing on their minds.

The scroungers on the other hand are well fed and have plenty of time for troublemaking.

People like us on here oth have to much to lose.

Edited September 22, 2007 by mSparks

[yawnIHateSundays]

Imagine the uproar if the govt announced that - they'd be out of office within 48 hrs. Yet for FTB's, that's exactly how it is. MASSIVE inflation. Of course homeowners are unaffected, so we just have a section of society (the one's who don't matter apparently) suffering this currency devaluation.

Because most people either don't believe it, or don't care. As long as they can watch Sky TV and have a Domino's Pizza they do not give a damn. The cynical in me would say that government has learnt to control the media and hence public opinion since the days of political protest in the 60's and 70's, but I suspect the real reason is just apathy in that people are not really struggling (yet).

[Guest pioneer31]

Because most people either don't believe it, or don't care. As long as they can watch Sky TV and have a Domino's Pizza they do not give a damn. The cynical in me would say that government has learnt to control the media and hence public opinion since the days of political protest in the 60's and 70's, but I suspect the real reason is just apathy in that people are not really struggling (yet).

I wonder if it be any different, if the asset owning classes get walloped?

[Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable]

I'm up for a good old fashioned balaclava and crowbar based riot.

[JohnG]

Goodness gracious. Assuming you are not joking, are you seriously suggesting that objecting to a tax based on "I exist, therefore I pay" has only ever been the preserve of Dave Spart and his hippy friends? And moving on, are you therefore seriously suggesting that agreeable and civilised 70 year olds who are holding banners towards council offices up and down the country against the council tax are there because they are members of a far left plot?

Do wake up. I thought the days have been long gone since any objection expressed to anything that smacks of unfairness is deemed a left wing conspiracy.

Yours is the language of the ignorant knee jerk far right. Get a sense of proportion. You'll be saying next that anyone who objects to the Iraq invasion must be a communist.

VP

Nope. I'm saying that the so called 'poll tax riots' and associated violence were stirred up by the hard left.

'Fairness' is a term used by the current administration to justify much of its 'control the masses' agenda, and is frequently used to justify further state sponsored theft, AKA further tax rises.

Ignorant? No.

Knee Jerk? No.

Far Right? No.

Incidentally politics these days is more about control/ liberty than left/ right.

HTH.

[JohnG]

Thats because the workers are so tired when they get home from their 12 hour, 4 day a week shifts, they're lucky if they can remember to cook for themselves, starting a riot is the last thing on their minds.

The scroungers on the other hand are well fed and have plenty of time for troublemaking.

People like us on here oth have to much to lose.

12 hour day, 4 day week? That's only 48 hours per week. It's hardly an energy sapping week.

The scroungers are far too busy to get involved in anything. They don't even have time to look after their houses/ gardens. It takes a 'special' sort to get involved in political violence.