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Banks Are Dropping Again!

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Northern Rock

186.80

70.20

down

27.32

Alliance & Leicester

762.50

53.00

down

6.50

Bradford & Bingley

309.50

18.50

down

5.64

HBOS

834.00

40.00

down

4.58

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....and the builders.

Persimmon

938.00

-51.00

down 5.16

TAYLOR WIMPEY ORD 25P

287.75

-17.25

down 5.66

Persimmon

938.00

-51.00

down 5.16

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Morning everyone. I am not a financier or an economist, but it strikes me that this is re-arranging the deckchairs on the Titanic. The real sadness is that those responsible will be in the lifeboats, while the rest of us will be left to struggle. If I made the same mess running a company, I would be out of business, probably prosecuted and homeless to boot.

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Morning everyone. I am not a financier or an economist, but it strikes me that this is re-arranging the deckchairs on the Titanic. The real sadness is that those responsible will be in the lifeboats, while the rest of us will be left to struggle. If I made the same mess running a company, I would be out of business, probably prosecuted and homeless to boot.

Morning.

Love the analogy of the deckchairs on the Titanic. :)

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The UK banking syetem is insolvent. When the market wakes up to that fact and begins the REAL sell off Gordon's miracle can be declared dead.

Whooah. I don't think thats true.

Lets put things in perspective.

One particular mechanism of banking profits is horribly broken, the securities market, and in particular mortgage securitization.

This property/real estate sector in the Western hemisphere has suffered massive over investment, following a period of sub inflationary lending in the US, and cannot possibly return on the investment.

Losses are substantial (on a global scale) and liability is spread across the industrialised world.

That is all.

We will not see systemic collapse, we may see large scale reform.

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Well, King has just stated that he is satisfied the UK banks have the capital to take back onto their books all the conduits and sivs etc. Hence the UK banks are not insolvent. I believe him. (notwithstanding NR and possibly the other 2).

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Well, King has just stated that he is satisfied the UK banks have the capital to take back onto their books all the conduits and sivs etc. Hence the UK banks are not insolvent. I believe him. (notwithstanding NR and possibly the other 2).

but is the the collateral being marked at fair value or par? If I recall, NRK said in their press statement as a footnote that their investment portfolio was not marked at fair value.

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Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable
Whooah. I don't think thats true.

Lets put things in perspective.

One particular mechanism of banking profits is horribly broken, the securities market, and in particular mortgage securitization.

This property/real estate sector in the Western hemisphere has suffered massive over investment, following a period of sub inflationary lending in the US, and cannot possibly return on the investment.

Losses are substantial (on a global scale) and liability is spread across the industrialised world.

That is all.

We will not see systemic collapse, we may see large scale reform.

We'll see large scale reductions in house prices, that's for sure.

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Morning everyone. I am not a financier or an economist, but it strikes me that this is re-arranging the deckchairs on the Titanic. The real sadness is that those responsible will be in the lifeboats, while the rest of us will be left to struggle. If I made the same mess running a company, I would be out of business, probably prosecuted and homeless to boot.

Indeed. You're spot on.

Perhaps we could start a petition to see if we could get to hold them to account? (Fat chance.)

The root of all of this is theft. This is global theft with the collusion of all of us; but there are individuals who could easily have stopped this at source and instead they whipped it up for their own political gains.

Low inflation was handed to us on a plate but Gordon Brown wanted credit for it. The printing presses got us out of a fix when 9/11 happened but they thought, what the hell, this is fun.

They used the housing market to create the biggest Ponzi scheme the world has ever seen. Careers will be over when the smoke clears (and it will not clear until it has got much worse than this) but that's it; the posh guy's pain; a career with a black spot on it.

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We'll see large scale reductions in house prices, that's for sure.

That will be very sweet. (Let's watch how they still talk it up. Where's our little Irish friend from Nationwide today? I wonder if HPI is coming down from 10% to 4% today, or are prices going to level out?)

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The UK banking syetem is insolvent. When the market wakes up to that fact and begins the REAL sell off Gordon's miracle can be declared dead.

Why is it RB that you are always so confident in you proclamations ?

How is it that all the highly paid financial players are so blind and you are the only one who can see ?

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Why is it RB that you are always so confident in you proclamations ?

How is it that all the highly paid financial players are so blind and you are the only one who can see ?

You misunderstand the dynamics.

Many knew

Some knew a little

Some didnt know much

However irrational exhuberence explains why no-one is going to stick their hand up and say this is wrong - they would be swept away.

The truth is out there but the money market are not run on truth or best practice, its run on making money, self-interest, and sod the rest of them.

Greed is good - you are compelled to follow the heard but if you are clever enough you know when to duck out. The best bankers/money men will be in their bunkers now hedged to the hilt and counting their lucky stars/ingots.

Edited by Tomas

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You misunderstand the dynamics.

Many knew

Some knew a little

Some didnt know much

However irrational exhuberence explains why no-one is going to stick their hand up and say this is wrong - they would be swept away.

The truth is out there but the money market are not run on truth or best practice, its run on making money, self-interest, and sod the rest of them.

So the UK banking system is insolvent but they don't know it yet ? A bit like the sixth sense - I see dead banks.

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So the UK banking system is insolvent but they don't know it yet ? A bit like the sixth sense - I see dead banks.

The natural fall-out will be some institutions had some of the 'knew something' but didnt quite grasp the complexity or gravity.

People who stand up to an obvious wrong and are followed are thin on the ground in history - Ghandi, Churchill (specifically WWII), Woman on Bus in Birmingham Alabama. It aint easy especially with the default money markets sociopathic mentality.

What it highlights was the checks and balances that should be provided by the FSA (in theory) were way behind the curve and the irrational exhuberence vaulted beyond any control.

Panic decisions will be made and in the first instance fail, pragmatism will reign after this and a reduced number of institutions could be ring-fenced for safety of the system. Some mechanism for a complete write-off of telephone numbers losses found so that the experiment can start again but with much tighter controls.

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So the UK banking system is insolvent but they don't know it yet ? A bit like the sixth sense - I see dead banks.

As merv said a few minutes ago, the players(banks) get swept up in the fear that they are going to miss out- its exactly the same fear people have that they'll miss the boat if they dont get on the housing ladder

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As merv said a few minutes ago, the players(banks) get swept up in the fear that they are going to miss out- its exactly the same fear people have that they'll miss the boat if they dont get on the housing ladder

Yes. And he also said that in a year from now the banking system will be in a much better place than it is now. Perhaps he meant heaven ? :lol:

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Morning everyone. I am not a financier or an economist, but it strikes me that this is re-arranging the deckchairs on the Titanic. The real sadness is that those responsible will be in the lifeboats, while the rest of us will be left to struggle. If I made the same mess running a company, I would be out of business, probably prosecuted and homeless to boot.

Mornin.

I like Titanic analogies too. I guess the lifeboats were filled

with the rich and members of the Titanic crew who suddenly became expert oarsmen.

Those that drowned were mainly the middle class, those in steerage and the poor old

stokers.

If the economy sinks, not only the rich but also those who have positioned themselves,

will not have to "struggle" in those icy waters.

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