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eric pebble

Mortgage Fraud Mortgage Fraud Mortgage Fraud

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In 2003 an investigative journalist went to TEN - that's 10 - Estate Agents in Ealing, West London: IN NINE - [that's 9!!] of them - HE WAS TOLD BY THE SO-CALLED "MORTGAGE ADVISOR" [ :unsure::P ]TO LIE ABOUT HIS INCOME ON EVERY OCCASION!!!- actually - to NEARLY DOUBLE HIS INCOME on the Mortgage Application Form - So that he could "afford" to buy!!!!

"Mortgage customers 'urged to lie'" ---

CLICK HERE - - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3222053.stm - - watch the video - click on "Watch & Listen" - top right.... !!! And watch.

Now: - This is just ONE example. Then the guy went up North -- and the same thing happened there! The vast majority of EAs and advisors just told him to lie about his income!!

It's all summed up well here. -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressrele..._mortgage.shtml

CONCLCUSION????? DUHRRR................Let's Fink...... urgh......durgh......

EVERYONE I KNOW HAS BEEN ENCOURAGED TO FIDDLE THEIR MORTGAGE APPLICATION FIGURES. EVERYONE THEY KNOW KNOW PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN ENCOURAGED TO LIE. ETC ETC.

I.E. THE UK DOES HAVE AN ENORMOUS "SUB-PRIME" PROBLEM. IT IS A MYTH THE UK DOES NOT HAVE A "SUB-PRIME" PROBLEM.

IT IS ENDEMIC -

AND HAS BEEN ENDEMIC FOR YEARS HERE IN THE UK - AS WELL AS IN THE USA. IT IS THE NORM -- IT IS WIDESPREAD. AND IT HAS ALL GROSSLY INFLATED PRICES ACROSS THE UK. IT HAS SKEWED PRICES UTTERLY. WORK IT OUT!!! IT ISN'T ROCKET SCIENCE!!!. ............ [this is not a dead parrot......etc etc. ?????!!!!]

Edited by eric pebble

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CONCLCUSION????? DUHRRR................Let's Fink...... urgh......durgh......

EVERYONE I KNOW HAS BEEN ENCOURAGED TO FIDDLE THEIR MORTGAGE APPLICATION FIGURES. EVERYONE THEY KNOW KNOW PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN ENCOURAGED TO LIE. ETC ETC.

Which says more about you and the company you keep (and more eloquently) than I ever could.

I obtained a mortgage recently from a rather ordinary man at my local building society. He read my application, did a credit check, contacted my employer and then lent me some money.

If I believed half of what's posted on this site I'd rationally be compelled to conclude that I lived in a parallel world divorced from reality. I don't, I suspect you do - you've even found the online equivalent of the big red wax crayon.

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Which says more about you and the company you keep (and more eloquently) than I ever could.

I obtained a mortgage recently from a rather ordinary man at my local building society. He read my application, did a credit check, contacted my employer and then lent me some money.

If I believed half of what's posted on this site I'd rationally be compelled to conclude that I lived in a parallel world divorced from reality. I don't, I suspect you do - you've even found the online equivalent of the big red wax crayon.

miserable? [git]

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Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable
Which says more about you and the company you keep (and more eloquently) than I ever could.

I obtained a mortgage recently from a rather ordinary man at my local building society. He read my application, did a credit check, contacted my employer and then lent me some money.

If I believed half of what's posted on this site I'd rationally be compelled to conclude that I lived in a parallel world divorced from reality. I don't, I suspect you do - you've even found the online equivalent of the big red wax crayon.

Excellent, so we have one for 100% liar loans, one for 0%.

I'm guessing at 30%

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In 1993 an investigative journalist went to TEN - that's 10 - Estate Agents in Ealing, West London: IN NINE - [that's 9!!] of them - HE WAS TOLD BY THE SO-CALLED "MORTGAGE ADVISOR" [ laugh.gif ]TO LIE ABOUT HIS INCOME ON EVERY OCCASION!!!- actually - to NEARLY DOUBLE HIS INCOME on the Mortgage Application Form - So that he could "afford" to buy!!!!

"Mortgage customers 'urged to lie'" ---

CLICK HERE - - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3222053.stm - - watch the video - click on "Watch & Listen" - top right.... SO CLICK AND LISTEN HERE STARSIGN!!! And watch.

Now: - This is just ONE example. Then the guy went up North -- and the same thing happened there! The vast majority of EAs and advisors just told him to lie about his income!!

It's all summed up well here. -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressrele..._mortgage.shtml

CONCLCUSION????? DUHRRR................Let's Fink...... urgh......durgh......

EVERYONE I KNOW HAS BEEN ENCOURAGED TO FIDDLE THEIR MORTGAGE APPLICATION FIGURES. EVERYONE THEY KNOW KNOW PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN ENCOURAGED TO LIE. ETC ETC.

I.E. THE UK DOES HAVE AN ENORMOUS "SUB-PRIME" PROBLEM. IT IS A MYTH THE UK DOES NOT HAVE A "SUB-PRIME" PROBLEM.

IT IS ENDEMIC -

AND HAS BEEN ENDEMIC FOR YEARS HERE IN THE UK - AS WELL AS IN THE USA. IT IS THE NORM -- IT IS WIDESPREAD. AND IT HAS ALL GROSSLY INFLATED PRICES ACROSS THE UK. IT HAS SKEWED PRICES UTTERLY. WORK IT OUT!!! IT ISN'T ROCKET SCIENCE!!!. ............ [this is not a dead parrot......etc etc. ?????!!!!]

....why beat around the bush ....!.... if your assertions are correct the UK has an enormous 'Mortgage Fraud' problem ...not Sub Prime......the key difference is you can go to jail for mortgage fraud but not for being sub prime...try this tack....it is better to be direct in your dealings and you get to a solution quicker....the problem is the jails are full ...maybe we could set up a prison in Antartica and get them to build their own shelter... .... :ph34r::ph34r::ph34r:

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Excellent, so we have one for 100% liar loans, one for 0%.

I'm guessing at 30%

If only I had a set of red crayons...

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If only I had a set of red crayons...

The prime, subprime, self cert honesty/dishonesty thing is an interesting question.

I know where my risk threshold is. Most lenders will have happily pushed me way past that in recent years.

And I'm someone who can count, and even understands percentages.

Edited by DissipatedYouthIsValuable

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The prime, subprime, self cert honesty/dishonesty thing is an interesting question.

I know where my risk threshold is. Most lenders will have happily pushed me way past that in recent years.

And I'm someone who can count, and even understands percentages.

Wouldn't disagree with that sentiment at all.

I remember the last HPC and what characterised it most for me (apart from the lunatic scramble to meet the 2xMIRAS suicide dash) was the willingness to lend utterly inappropriate income-multiples and LTVs above 90%.

I clearly recall 5-6 x income and 125% mortgages being touted to FTBs.

I still don't have a set of red crayons though, and now many seem to be getting hyper-excited at NR's woes, I think hmmm.

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I saw the programme at the time. I have no doubt there have been some liar loans how many I don't think anyone know.

NR was a surprise for me, I did not think UK lenders would have a problem before yoy price rises were negavtive.

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In 1993 an investigative journalist went to TEN - that's 10 - Estate Agents in Ealing, West London: IN NINE - [that's 9!!] of them - HE WAS TOLD BY THE SO-CALLED "MORTGAGE ADVISOR" [ laugh.gif ]TO LIE ABOUT HIS INCOME ON EVERY OCCASION!!!- actually - to NEARLY DOUBLE HIS INCOME on the Mortgage Application Form - So that he could "afford" to buy!!!!

"Mortgage customers 'urged to lie'" ---

CLICK HERE - - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3222053.stm - - watch the video - click on "Watch & Listen" - top right.... SO CLICK AND LISTEN HERE STARSIGN!!! And watch.

Now: - This is just ONE example. Then the guy went up North -- and the same thing happened there! The vast majority of EAs and advisors just told him to lie about his income!!

It's all summed up well here. -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressrele..._mortgage.shtml

CONCLCUSION????? DUHRRR................Let's Fink...... urgh......durgh......

EVERYONE I KNOW HAS BEEN ENCOURAGED TO FIDDLE THEIR MORTGAGE APPLICATION FIGURES. EVERYONE THEY KNOW KNOW PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN ENCOURAGED TO LIE. ETC ETC.

I.E. THE UK DOES HAVE AN ENORMOUS "SUB-PRIME" PROBLEM. IT IS A MYTH THE UK DOES NOT HAVE A "SUB-PRIME" PROBLEM.

IT IS ENDEMIC -

AND HAS BEEN ENDEMIC FOR YEARS HERE IN THE UK - AS WELL AS IN THE USA. IT IS THE NORM -- IT IS WIDESPREAD. AND IT HAS ALL GROSSLY INFLATED PRICES ACROSS THE UK. IT HAS SKEWED PRICES UTTERLY. WORK IT OUT!!! IT ISN'T ROCKET SCIENCE!!!. ............ [this is not a dead parrot......etc etc. ?????!!!!]

eric

3 times I have been advised by M A's to lie about my income when applying for mortgages.

i.e. 1996

1998 Also at same time was advised to buy several properties by applying to different mortgage companies for each property.

2006.

Edited by Malarkey

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eric

3 times I have been advised by M A's to lie about my income when applying for mortgages.

i.e. 1996

1998 Also at same time was advised to buy several properties by applying to different mortgage companies for each property.

2006.

Tell that to Miserable? above!! ;):lol:

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Its clear that the disparity between the entry level house and the average wage for young FTBs that Fast track/self cert loans are the only way some people can get on the ladder- Some will have large salaries, some will have rich parents, but most dont- Its clear that this is a widespread problem encouraged by greedy lenders and intermediaries.

So who is the criminal here- the borrower, the intermediary who having done a full enquiry about the clients curcumstances will KNOW what they are capable of affording, then turns a blind eye to the salary amount inserted on the form, or the lender who doesnt do the checks.

In my view, they are ALL culpable and heads shuold roll.

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The french invented the guilotine because the jails were full, I beleive

.....there are set sentences....but a prison ship off Antarctica in their winter and the Arctic in our winter would suffice.... <_<

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...to keep it realistic ...jail should be enough.... :ph34r::ph34r::ph34r:

ANYONE perpetrating Mortgage Fraud -- Automatic 15 year Prison Sentence --- ABSOLUTE BAN on any mortgages over 3.5 x salary. It's that simple.

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ANYONE perpetrating Mortgage Fraud -- Automatic 15 year Prison Sentence --- ABSOLUTE BAN on any mortgages over 3.5 x salary. It's that simple.

Laws don't help anything. They never do. Remove them all, no insurance, no central bank, sorted.

I am quite amused that you think any mortgages have actually taken place. I'd love to see the proof you have for that. :lol:

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Wouldn't disagree with that sentiment at all.

I remember the last HPC and what characterised it most for me (apart from the lunatic scramble to meet the 2xMIRAS suicide dash) was the willingness to lend utterly inappropriate income-multiples and LTVs above 90%.

I clearly recall 5-6 x income and 125% mortgages being touted to FTBs.

I still don't have a set of red crayons though, and now many seem to be getting hyper-excited at NR's woes, I think hmmm.

I think it's a bit of euphoria after a few years of an alarming sense of misery at affordability.

It feels a bit like having hacked a leg off the the HPI beast and seeing it wobble significantly.

Northern Rock is a proxy victim that allows a bit of a release.

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Laws don't help anything. They never do. Remove them all, no insurance, no central bank, sorted.

I am quite amused that you think any mortgages have actually taken place. I'd love to see the proof you have for that. :lol:

......did you intend to say 'mortgage fraud'.....?..... :ph34r::ph34r::ph34r:

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......did you intend to say 'mortgage fraud'.....?..... :ph34r::ph34r::ph34r:

Nope. Mortgages.

I'd love to see a cashier reciept, proof of loss from a building societies accounting etc to prove that a bank or building society has given an asset of it's own to fund a mortgage.

Which order do you think NR funded it's liabilities?

Think they got the money from the markets, then issued the mortgage or vice versa?

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Nope. Mortgages.

I'd love to see a cashier reciept, proof of loss from a building societies accounting etc to prove that a bank or building society has given an asset of it's own to fund a mortgage.

Which order do you think NR funded it's liabilities?

Think they got the money from the markets, then issued the mortgage or vice versa?

Can't quite follow your logic here Injin -- maybe you're a lawyer - stating that the crime of Mortgage Fraud is difficult to prove in court..... But I think not. EVERY SINGE mortgage application form should be lodged with an independent adjudicator - and he/she can check ANY of them at random - and see if lying - fraud - has been committed - e.g. about income - check it all out -- and any fraud/cheating --- automatic prison. Sounds harsh -- yes -- but house purchase is OUR BIGGEST EXPENDITURE of all -- and there should be SCRUPULOUS checking for ANY fraud -- because FRAUD affects everyone else -- it artificialy drives up prices -- i.e. AFFECTS US ALL...

Edited by eric pebble

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Can't quite follow your logic here Injin -- maybe you're a lawyer - stating that the crime of Mortgage Fraud is difficult to prove in court..... But I think not. EVERY SINGE mortgage application form should be lodged with an independent adjudicator - and he/she can check ANY of them at random - and see if lying - fraud - has been committed - e.g. about income - check it all out -- and any fraud/cheating --- automatic prison. Sounds harsh -- yes -- but house purchase is OUR BIGGEST EXPENDITURE of all -- and there should be SCRUPULOUS checking for ANY fraud -- because FRAUD affects everyone else -- it artificialy drives up prices -- i.e.e AFFECTS US ALL...

Ah

This is the order banks do things.

You ask for loan.

Bank agrees to lend you it's own money.

You sign form.

Bank sells form to acquire money from money markets/doesn't even bother and just feigns that it has the cash.

Bank gives you money/gives another bank the nod to pretend they did/shows you "accounting" that the money is there even though it isn't.

You spend money. Fellow idiot in the general populace believes you/the bank/knowing banker carries on the scham.

You run around like a loon to "repay" the mortgage that probably never actually happened.

Anyway, it's a pretty simple thing to ask for proof of cash changing hands. Was it in £20's or £50's, who actually handied it over, where and when etc.

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Already there is an effort to shift the blame onto others. Typical British blame culture.

The fact is that people who lied on Mortgage applications knew exactly what they were doing. They deserve to be punished for it and will be, not by any criminal penalty, but by repossession of their home.

And so the people learn.

p.s. If Mortgage advisors genuinely led people into doing something which they were not aware was illegal then so be it punish them. My point is that everybody knew what was going on.

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Which says more about you and the company you keep (and more eloquently) than I ever could.

I obtained a mortgage recently from a rather ordinary man at my local building society. He read my application, did a credit check, contacted my employer and then lent me some money.

If I believed half of what's posted on this site I'd rationally be compelled to conclude that I lived in a parallel world divorced from reality. I don't, I suspect you do - you've even found the online equivalent of the big red wax crayon.

I don't doubt you. When I've looked for mortgages I've never been told to lie. But it was clear that I could afford the repayments and that I met the criteria. The BBC journalist played as someone who was not in this position, and I'm convinced that I would have been urged to lie if I were in that position. 9 out of 10 mortage advisers is not the same as 9 out of 10 mortgage applicants.

However I do know many people who could not possibly afford the houses they bought. Now they didn't tell me they lied, but I didn't ask.

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