Riot At 2pm ?

[refusnik]

(at a push, I'm not making this up, what do you think REALLY helped England win WWII?!).

Truffles?

[jimmyjazz]

Just got my final 35K out this morning via CHAPs......

The Clearing House Automated Payment System or CHAPS is a British company Est. London 1984 which offers same-day sterling and euro fund transfers. CHAPS is a member of the trade organisation APACS.

A CHAPS transfer is initiated by the sender to move money to the recipient's account (at another banking institution) where the funds need to be available (cleared) the same working day. Unlike with a bank giro credit, no preprinted slip specifying the recipient's details is required. Unlike cheques, the funds transfer is performed in real-time removing the issue of float or the potential for payments to be purposefully stopped by the sender, or returned due to insufficient funds, even after they appear to have arrived in the destination account.

very wise move to use CHAPS . how much did you have to pay to use that service ? were they very particular about ID ?

[grey shark]

?...! your one of the best most balanced on HPC , i'm interested in your view on where we go from here , any other big banks in deep sh1t , obvoiusly credit will be really tight now , housing market expected to slip/crash , but what next ?

[crashmonitor]

very wise move to use CHAPS . how much did you have to pay to use that service ? were they very particular about ID ?

£35,Passport.

[jimmyjazz]

Thought you might have gone on friday after our conversation earlier this week. Good move. They will be forced to close redmptions soon.

do you mean they will freeze their customers accounts ?

[jimmyjazz]

£35,Passport.

do you think some people who got bankers drafts have been given worthless pieces of paper ?

[Guest Bart of Darkness]

Did you see the queue outside the branch in Sheffield? They had it on the Beeb earlier... wow! Hundreds deep, the police were there - apparently telling the people at the back that they wouldn't get seen today. Didn't seem to be discouraging them though.

I went past the brach at about 1.00 PM yesterday and the queues were noticeable but nothing like as big as they seem to have become. Shame I won't be in town today.

[crashmonitor]

do you think some people who got bankers drafts have been given worthless pieces of paper ?

Don't think banker's draft is an option.

1.CHAPs £35.

2.Cheque in post (at least ten days)

3.BACs could take several days.

Note mine was a Bond*.For the 5.9 billion or so on branch access you could get cheque over the counter.

* 90% of the queue was actually bond holders and the branch was dealing with these even though the usual route is the post.But I guess the Rock would now sit on its post for maybe days increasing the risk of it being sorted too late.

Edited September 15, 2007 by crashmonitor

[Bearback]

15 mins till closing time. This is getting exciting.

[stonethecrows]

Don't think banker's draft is an option.

1.CHAPs £35.

2.Cheque in post (at least ten days)

3.BACs could take several days.

Note mine was a Bond*.For the 5.9 billion or so on branch access you could get cheque over the counter.

* 90% of the queue was actually bond holders and the branch was dealing with these even though the usual route is the post.But I guess the Rock would now sit on its post for maybe days increasing the risk of it being sorted too late.

Hi crashmonitor-that will probably go down in your mental diary of events in years to come as the best £35 you ever spent

[jimmyjazz]

Don't think banker's draft is an option.

1.CHAPs £35.

2.Cheque in post (at least ten days)

3.BACs could take several days.

Note mine was a Bond*.For the 5.9 billion or so on branch access you could get cheque over the counter.

* 90% of the queue was actually bond holders and the branch was dealing with these even though the usual route is the post.But I guess the Rock would now sit on its post for maybe days increasing the risk of it being sorted too late.

did you talk with any other customers ? any anecdotals ?

[crashmonitor]

did you talk with any other customers ? any anecdotals ?

Mainly pensioners.

''I've work hard all my life,only had a fortnight off work.Can't replace the money if i now lose it''

''Usually spread my money about,the last time i will put all my eggs in one basket,got sucked in by the rates''

''Son rang me told me to get it out,go on a world cruise, he doesn't want it.

''I don't know what to do,i think it will be alright the lady on the phone at the Northern Rock said it would be alright and they can't lie,but i don't know what to do''

''Should have gone for pensioners bonds but the rates are so low''

you hear a lot in two hours of queueing.

Edited September 15, 2007 by crashmonitor

[Captain Coma]

From another thread, there is a link to the BBC's Robert Peston (good bloke at BBC - wonders never cease) where, on his blog, he does some calculations and reckons that NR are in fact several billions short of being able to honour all their depositors. Gulp.

[deadman]

Just been on BBC that the coppers turned up at the Sheffield branch and told 40 odd customers to go home.

The fact that they had to use the old bill only makes matters worse. Roll on Monday morning.

Edited September 15, 2007 by Deadman

[Methinkshe]

Just been on BBC that the coppers turned up at the Sheffield branch and told 40 odd customers to go home.

The fact that they had to use the old bill only makes matters worse. Roll on Monday morning.

There could be a lot of anger simmering away over the weekend. A lot of people have to work on Monday so that will leave them even more frustrated. How many angry people could decide it's worth taking a day off work to rescue their savings? They won't be in a good frame of mind if they do join the queue on Monday.

[?...!]

?...! your one of the best most balanced on HPC , i'm interested in your view on where we go from here , any other big banks in deep sh1t , obvoiusly credit will be really tight now , housing market expected to slip/crash , but what next ?

Thanks for the praise, it's always nice to know somebody is actually reading my points.

I think what happens next is that the plot continues to thicken. This is the beginning. Well Act 2 (the shift of credit market spreads from 100bps to 250bps being Act 1).

Credit market movements have removed the margin in which Northern Rock makes 90% of its profit. The company is now defunkt having grown too reliant on this single mechanism.

Other larger banks have many diverse ways of making profits and the absense of credit market plays will greatly hurt their P&L account but will not see them going bust (not alone anyway).

What happens next (in the UK) is that mortgage lenders begin to disapear from the high street. Right at the time when the 2 year UK mortgage refinancing cycle is set to begin. Next Spring we will have much higher default numbers, which of course will lead to wider spreads in the Itraxx credit markets.

Northern Rock will not exist in it's current format come New Year. To be honest I am suprised they lended so aggresively post February 28th. It stinks of amateurism. They deserve to die.

Also I have lost all faith in Darling this week. He is ill-equipped to face what is coming, and I think we will see him go within the next 24 months.

[BandWagon]

What happens next (in the UK) is that mortgage lenders begin to disapear from the high street. Right at the time when the 2 year UK mortgage refinancing cycle is set to begin. Next Spring we will have much higher default numbers, which of course will lead to wider spreads in the Itraxx credit markets.

What do you know about credit derivatives?

[Last Avenue]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtm...5/cnrock715.xml

Police help to disperse Northern Rock queues

...

Police were called to deal with "boisterous customers" after a Glasgow City Centre branch closed at midday.

A spokesman for Strathclyde Police said: "A call came in asking for assistance as some of the customers were getting a bit boisterous.

[Bearback]

Even though NR closed their doors at 2pm, some customers at some branches are still queing. Wonder if they will start to smash the windows with their walking sticks? I hope so.

[R K]

I am moderately suprised by some people's good humour in the Qs this morning.

This is a UK "bank", whose customers are unable to withdraw their funds through any of its channels. 'Phone, online or in person. I'm not sure the seriousness of this has yet sunk in. Any other country and we would have seen rioting.

This conflation of mutual building societies and commercial banks should never have occured. They served entirely different markets. Non-profit making societies created purely to enable regular savers to help finance mortgages for their own members have all but disappeared and been replaced with profit generating "banks" whose primary motivation is to provide a return for their shareholders and their overpaid management team through profit growth. If nothing else this demonstrates that the business of banking and the business of long-term mortgage lending are entirely different and should be kept separate. I hope this is a wake-up call and people dump these former pseudo banks.

[LowestoftBoy]

Flicking through news channels watching the `silver savers`whinging on. Suprised to see Ming Campbell outside a branch in Brighton... Oh, sorry, that`s the Lib Dem conference!

[payback period]

No flour?!

Panic not, there are other foods ye can eat - pasta, potatoes, fruit, vegetables, even nettles and dandelions (at a push, I'm not making this up, what do you think REALLY helped England win WWII?!).

Pasta?! Last time I heard that was also made from flour.

Didn't you read about the Italians boycotting it the other day due to price rises of flour? http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/st...2168972,00.html

[grey shark]

Thanks for the praise, it's always nice to know somebody is actually reading my points.

I think what happens next is that the plot continues to thicken. This is the beginning. Well Act 2 (the shift of credit market spreads from 100bps to 250bps being Act 1).

Credit market movements have removed the margin in which Northern Rock makes 90% of its profit. The company is now defunkt having grown too reliant on this single mechanism.

Other larger banks have many diverse ways of making profits and the absense of credit market plays will greatly hurt their P&L account but will not see them going bust (not alone anyway).

What happens next (in the UK) is that mortgage lenders begin to disapear from the high street. Right at the time when the 2 year UK mortgage refinancing cycle is set to begin. Next Spring we will have much higher default numbers, which of course will lead to wider spreads in the Itraxx credit markets.

Northern Rock will not exist in it's current format come New Year. To be honest I am suprised they lended so aggresively post February 28th. It stinks of amateurism. They deserve to die.

Also I have lost all faith in Darling this week. He is ill-equipped to face what is coming, and I think we will see him go within the next 24 months.

I reckon quite a few read /respect your posts , agree with NR the fact that the UK's 8th largest bank sold more mortgages in the first 6 months of the year than any other bank , says it all really , Applegarth should be swinging from a tree imo . As for Darling well he never had a chance anyway , can you see any other MAIN stream lenders ending up like NR , and whats your feeling on house prices 12 months out , 10-20% less asking price ?

[?...!]

What do you know about credit derivatives?

Why?

[GCS15]

My wife and I have cleaned out our accounts on the basis of NR and Countrywide (US) bank runs. Physical cash in my rifle safe appears far safer than the banks at the moment. I don't know if it will get really nasty and to be honest I don't care. I'm sitting on the sidelines buying gold and silver and having a nice stash of physical cash. I'm not worried about losing out on interest because let's be honest here, the interest banks have been paying is below inflation that I'm experiencing when I buy food and other essentials.

Is that Doom and Gloom? No way! It's being prudent. It's acknowledging that banks have been gambling with my money like drunken sailors. I'd just as sooner rather not play.