Rents Going Up Up Up

[Rizo]

You mean you will live off the tenants... Not a parasite at all are you.

Parasite. noun [C]

1, an animal or plant that lives on or in another animal or plant of a different type and feeds from it:

charliemouse we have dismantaled each and everyone of your arguments. Are you man enough to admit you are wrong?

[silver surfer]

A lot of people on the site don't seem to really get this whole concept . . . so it'll require some subsidies right now, there may be void periods, awkward tenants, current yields may be a bit sloppy, if you're willing to follow the market every day and shift around with a balanced portfolio and great timing you could do a lot better but still . . . if you invest now for retirement in 40 years time and leaving to children in 70 years time it's hard to imagine that one wouldn't do better with property than with anything else.

I'm sure that's just because I've been indoctrinated though.

What about investing in five years time? Won't make any difference to the pension or the kids, but it would save you a lot of grief over the next few years.

And that's exactly the question many prospective BTL landlords are asking themselves right now. Consequently the demand driven from BTL landlords (30% of sales in many areas over the last few years) is now drying up. Add in a few recent BTL landlords getting cold feet and selling out and you've got, a bit more supply + a lot less demand = GC2.

[Rizo]

What about investing in five years time? Won't make any difference to the pension or the kids, but it would save you a lot of grief over the next few years.

And that's exactly the question many prospective BTL landlords are asking themselves right now. Consequently the demand driven from BTL landlords (30% of sales in many areas over the last few years) is now drying up. Add in a few recent BTL landlords getting cold feet and selling out and you've got, a bit more supply + a lot less demand = GC2.

Actually your wrong atleast in didsbury manchester the BTL landlords are as hungry as ever to increase there property portfolio.

[Bloo Loo]

Looking at a lot of the flats they are throwing up around here, I doubt theyll be here in 40 years time- in about 15 years all their flat rooves will need replacing- indeed- are there many 40 year old blocks of flats still in existence

[Charliemouse]

Parasite implies one way traffic. He'll provide the tenants with shelter and maintenance of that shelter, in return the tenant provides him with income, that's more of a symbiotic relationship.

The tenant will borrow the property and then give it back. The tenant (and their children) will end up with nothing. The landlord (and his children) will end up with everything, all on the hard graft of the tenant.

Being a landlord is hard work and the rewards are/were great. Being a tenant is also hard work (if their not on benefits) and the rewards are nil except for having somewhere to live, but they would have been able to afford to buy a house and have something to leave their own children if it wasn't for the BTL landlord.

Margret Thatcher said private home ownership will make wealth "cascade down the generations". BTL landlords have found a way to siphon all that wealth into their own pockets thus killing off the only half decent policy Thatcher ever had.

"No such thing as community" Thanks for that one Maggie, we are nearly there.

[Furby]

Well, we had new man could rizo be new landlord?

Or is he Sheriff Fatman in disguise?

Sheriff Fatman started out in business

as a granny farmer

he was infamous for fifteen minutes

and he appeared in Panorama

Then he somehow got himself on board

The Starship Enterprise Allowance Scheme

With a Prince of Wales award

for pushing valium and amphetamines

Now he's moving up onto second base

behind Nicholas Van Wotsisface

At six foot six and a hundred tons

the undisputed king of the slums

With more alias' than Klaus Barbie

the master butcher of Leigh-on-Sea

Just about to take the stage

the one and only

hold the front page

Fatman's got something to sell

to the capital's homeless

At The Crossroads Motel

for the no-fixed-abodeless

Where you can live life in style

you can sleep in a closet

And if you flash him a smile

he'll take your teeth as deposit

There's bats in the belfry

the windows are jammed

The toilets ain't healthy

and he don't give a damn

he just chuckles and smiles

and laughs like a madman,

a born again Rachman

Here comes Sheriff Fatman

With his valium, amphetamines

his sick notes and his phoney prescriptions

And just when you thought it was safe

to go back into the kitchen, Dead legs and cracked heads

Bunk-beds and breakfasts

Wake up you sleepy headcases . . . check this . . .

Moving up now to take the place

of Nicholas Van Wotsisface

At six foot six and a hundred tons

the undisputed king of the slums

With more alias' than Klaus Barbie

the master butcher of Leigh-on-Sea

In a hatchback from Notre Dame,

the one and only Sheriff Fatman

In goes another left hook

and now I'm losing my patience

Someone call up Roger Cook and The United Nations

he's buying up houses for hasbeens (help me)

From Lands End to Southend and Chelsea

There's bats in the belfrey

the windows are jammed

The toilets ain't healthy

he don't give a damn

He just chuckles and smiles

and laughs like a madman

Ladies and gentlemen,

I give you . . .

SHERIFF FATMAN!

Ok - pointless post on my part, but for those of you that are interested you get to sing along to carter for a min or two.

F

[Bloo Loo]

The tenant will borrow the property and then give it back. The tenant (and their children) will end up with nothing. The landlord (and his children) will end up with everything, all on the hard graft of the tenant.

Being a landlord is hard work and the rewards are/were great. Being a tenant is also hard work (if their not on benefits) and the rewards are nil except for having somewhere to live, but they would have been able to afford to buy a house and have something to leave their own children if it wasn't for the BTL landlord.

Margret Thatcher said private home ownership will make wealth "cascade down the generations". BTL landlords have found a way to siphon all that wealth into their own pockets thus killing off the only half decent policy Thatcher ever had.

"No such thing as community" Thanks for that one Maggie, we are nearly there.

I fail to see what you are getting at- is it just renting you dont like- whats the difference if the council is the landlord, or if its someone who has bought another house and left their original one for rent-

You're argument also extends to the workplace, you do all the work, get a salary, and the shareholders get to keep all the profits-

I dont see where you are coming from

[Charliemouse]

charliemouse we have dismantled each and everyone of your arguments. Are you man enough to admit you are wrong?

I could be wrong .

Let me put it another way. Lets say you live until your ninety and so do your tenants. So there you all are. You own all the houses which have been paid for by your tenants, and your tenants own nothing cutesy of you.

Im not going to carry on with this argument anymore.

I dont blame you personaly. The system has let us all down... Again.

[Rizo]

The tenant will borrow the property and then give it back. The tenant (and their children) will end up with nothing. The landlord (and his children) will end up with everything, all on the hard graft of the tenant.

Being a landlord is hard work and the rewards are/were great. Being a tenant is also hard work (if their not on benefits) and the rewards are nil except for having somewhere to live, but they would have been able to afford to buy a house and have something to leave their own children if it wasn't for the BTL landlord.

Margret Thatcher said private home ownership will make wealth "cascade down the generations". BTL landlords have found a way to siphon all that wealth into their own pockets thus killing off the only half decent policy Thatcher ever had.

"No such thing as community" Thanks for that one Maggie, we are nearly there.

This argument applies to the burger I had for lunch. I ate the burger and now i have nothing

Mc D have my money

[silver surfer]

Actually your wrong atleast in didsbury manchester the BTL landlords are as hungry as ever to increase there property portfolio.

Looked at nationally I'm right, just look what's happening to the specialised BTL mortgage suppliers.

[Dingleberry]

Actually your wrong atleast in didsbury manchester the BTL landlords are as hungry as ever to increase there property portfolio.

Same old landlords (mostly Asian for some reason) fighting over the year-in-year-out student market. That's all Didsbury is.

Wouldn't surprise me if half the sales were from savvier BTLers selling on to the omg-must-get-a-BTL numpties.

[Benedict]

This is just a consequence of the fact that the long-run risk-adjusted returns should be the same across all asset classes.

But of course in the long run we're all dead

Broadly true, property risk is greater so property return is greater, leveraged investment risk is greater so leveraged return is greater, illiquid investments need higher risks etc.

I think that property is quite different from most investments though. It's absolutely essential and always will be essential, so it's not something easily fungible for any alternative. And although one can in theory always make more housing at least, in practice due to planning restrictions, local resistance, market forces etc people aren't making enough more of it.

I think the closest parallel in some respects is probably oil, as available supply of oil relative to demand is only going to get worse so the price of oil is probably going to outperform in the long term. Although with oil there's the good chance of alternatives being found and used thus wrecking the price, and I can't see that there'll be the same alternative for housing.

[Lone_Twin]

Hi Rizo,

.

Nice to see a BTL landlord on here.

.

May I just say I hope your "portfolio" is highly geared and that

I get the chance to p*ss on your cardboard box at some point in

the future.

.

ST

[Rizo]

Same old landlords (mostly Asian for some reason) fighting over the year-in-year-out student market. That's all Didsbury is.

Wouldn't surprise me if half the sales were from savvier BTLers selling on to the omg-must-get-a-BTL numpties.

Hey I'm asain Pakistani to be exact.

Don't rent to many students though.

[Charliemouse]

This argument applies to the burger I had for lunch. I ate the burger and now i have nothing

Mc D have my money

Brilliant, i give ground.

I may end up as the richest man in the grave yard, or the poorest, but ill certainly have nothing.

[Benedict]

The tenant will borrow the property and then give it back. The tenant (and their children) will end up with nothing. The landlord (and his children) will end up with everything, all on the hard graft of the tenant.

Being a landlord is hard work and the rewards are/were great. Being a tenant is also hard work (if their not on benefits) and the rewards are nil except for having somewhere to live, but they would have been able to afford to buy a house and have something to leave their own children if it wasn't for the BTL landlord.

Margret Thatcher said private home ownership will make wealth "cascade down the generations". BTL landlords have found a way to siphon all that wealth into their own pockets thus killing off the only half decent policy Thatcher ever had.

"No such thing as community" Thanks for that one Maggie, we are nearly there.

Different thing surely? If I lease a car for a few years rather than buying I wouldn't get upset at the person who leased it to me just because I ended up with nothing, that's what I'd paid for.

Why is it just the BTL landlord? If we built a lot more properties then the additional BTL demand wouldn't have driven prices up because there'd be enough property to meet demand. Indeed BTL demand would have been lower because they wouldn't have had such a ready supply of tenants.

Besides, lots of private home wealth is going to cascade down the generations, but with increasing lifespans that's being delayed a bit.

[R K]

What is the profile of your tenants Rizo?

Didsbury has a young professional set and a coffee bar culture and for that type of tenant you are hard pushed to get a 2 bed flat for less than £800/850.

Then there is a large University community, lecturers and so on.

There is also quite a large asian community, which obviously you know well being Pakistani.

Who are you renting to?

[gavp]

I actually don't plan on selling anything in my property portfolio ever. I'm 27 now when I'm 50 all the mortgages will be paid and I can live off the rent. When I'm no longer around the property will be passed on to my children. So a short term crash in the market doesn't really effect me.

It's not really the crash itself that you should be worried about, but the circumstances around it. Would you be able to keep up your mortgage repayments if interest rates went up significantly? Would your tenants be able to pay higher rents during an econmic downturn? If not, do you have cash reserves to make up the shortfall?

[Benedict]

Looked at nationally I'm right, just look what's happening to the specialised BTL mortgage suppliers.

Isn't that more because they can't raise the capital than because they can't find anyone to lend it to?

[Nick..]

a young professional set and a coffee bar culture

<shudder>

Edited September 13, 2007 by Nick..

[Rizo]

What is the profile of your tenants Rizo?

Didsbury has a young professional set and a coffee bar culture and for that type of tenant you are hard pushed to get a 2 bed flat for less than £800/850.

Then there is a large University community, lecturers and so on.

There is also quite a large asian community, which obviously you know well being Pakistani.

Who are you renting to?

Is there really a large number of asains in Didsbury? Where are they hiding?

Hard push to rent a flat for less than 800?? The most I've rented a 2 bed for is 750.

Most of my tenents I would say are in there mid to late 20's. some of them work in withington hospital and the cancer hospital. Others tend to work in the city center law firms and banks. A few work up the motherway in warrington.

Non of my tenents earn less than 30k

[REP013]

Different thing surely? If I lease a car for a few years rather than buying I wouldn't get upset at the person who leased it to me just because I ended up with nothing, that's what I'd paid for.

Why is it just the BTL landlord? If we built a lot more properties then the additional BTL demand wouldn't have driven prices up because there'd be enough property to meet demand. Indeed BTL demand would have been lower because they wouldn't have had such a ready supply of tenants.

Besides, lots of private home wealth is going to cascade down the generations, but with increasing lifespans that's being delayed a bit.

So since when can you compare a car to a house apart from both having doors and windows?

BTL's have driven up the price of houses for FTB's as, due to our screwed lending systems they can borrow more.

It will be nice to see changes in the laws for AST's towards tenants then we will have less cowboys, better service and a greater chance for those that want to own their own home.

Not forgetting that current legislation states that sometime in 2008 every new tenancy will require a "mini" HIP. I wonder what that will do for prices when you can judge the cost of your fuel against the rent of the property?

Edited September 13, 2007 by REP013

[Dingleberry]

Hey I'm asain Pakistani to be exact.

27 and a landlord in Didsbury? I'd have been surprised if you were anything else.

[Guest pioneer31]

Another factor people need to consider is what happens when BTLers start exiting the market. That'll mean a lot of people out of their rented property and looking for a new place. More people wanting to rent, less supply of rental properties = higher demand = higher rents.

There's a flaw in this argument. The supply of accommodation remains constant. The supply of properties for sale increases, so the house prices decrease, so some renters will now buy.

Net effect zero

Edited September 13, 2007 by pioneer31

[R K]

Is there really a large number of asains in Didsbury? Where are they hiding?

Hard push to rent a flat for less than 800?? The most I've rented a 2 bed for is 750.

Most of my tenents I would say are in there mid to late 20's. some of them work in withington hospital and the cancer hospital. Others tend to work in the city center law firms and banks. A few work up the motherway in warrington.

Non of my tenents earn less than 30k

Ive just double-checked on rightmove. The one's I'm talking about are all over £750/800.

I've found some at the lower end. None of them are worth the money imo. If you think you can stretch your tenants then that's up to you. They all look over-priced as they are though.