Rents Going Up Up Up

[Rizo]

Hey

I'm a small BTL landlord in manchester didsbury area. Recently many of the other landlords have started to put up rents and many people can no longer afford / or want to pay them. Talking to many perspective tenents the figures they usually come up with is between 7.5 and 10%.

Originally i thought these were other BTL landlords who were suffering under the recent rate rises and had decided to pass the increases onto there tenent.

WRONG

There is one particular landlord who owns around 200 properties in the area who has decided to raise rents. Then other smaller usually BTL landlords have followed his lead.

As for me I'm putting up the rent by 12% and usually end up accepting around 8%.

[Garry AKA Pod]

Hey

I'm a small BTL landlord in manchester didsbury area. Recently many of the other landlords have started to put up rents and many people can no longer afford / or want to pay them. Talking to many perspective tenents the figures they usually come up with is between 7.5 and 10%.

Originally i thought these were other BTL landlords who were suffering under the recent rate rises and had decided to pass the increases onto there tenent.

WRONG

There is one particular landlord who owns around 200 properties in the area who has decided to raise rents. Then other smaller usually BTL landlords have followed his lead.

As for me I'm putting up the rent by 12% and usually end up accepting around 8%.

What do you plan on doing when your tenants tell you s0d off?

[tinecu]

Hey

I'm a small BTL landlord in manchester didsbury area. Recently many of the other landlords have started to put up rents and many people can no longer afford / or want to pay them. Talking to many perspective tenents the figures they usually come up with is between 7.5 and 10%.

Originally i thought these were other BTL landlords who were suffering under the recent rate rises and had decided to pass the increases onto there tenent.

WRONG

There is one particular landlord who owns around 200 properties in the area who has decided to raise rents. Then other smaller usually BTL landlords have followed his lead.

As for me I'm putting up the rent by 12% and usually end up accepting around 8%.

What make you think you can justify raising the rent twice to three time the rate of wage inflation?

Have you improved the quality of the housing?

[Monopoly]

Hey

I'm a small BTL landlord in manchester didsbury area. Recently many of the other landlords have started to put up rents and many people can no longer afford / or want to pay them. Talking to many perspective tenents the figures they usually come up with is between 7.5 and 10%.

Originally i thought these were other BTL landlords who were suffering under the recent rate rises and had decided to pass the increases onto there tenent.

WRONG

There is one particular landlord who owns around 200 properties in the area who has decided to raise rents. Then other smaller usually BTL landlords have followed his lead.

As for me I'm putting up the rent by 12% and usually end up accepting around 8%.

And???

[OLDFTB]

I assume that when interest rates go down you will lowering your rent in line with them?

[Dingleberry]

As for me I'm putting up the rent by 12% and usually end up accepting around 8%.

So what sort of tenancy agreements do your tenants have?

[Andy Jones]

You can't have a go at a man for maximizing his investment return.

I believe rents are firming up in some areas and that the most liklely cause is twofold.

a) STR'd people like myself want to rent and are not overly price sensitive.

Many young people with solid incomes just aren't interested in buying and are commiting themselves to renting longer term and are willing to keep or procure a decent rental property even at a higher price.

ANDY

[silver surfer]

Hey

I'm a small BTL landlord in manchester didsbury area. Recently many of the other landlords have started to put up rents and many people can no longer afford / or want to pay them. Talking to many perspective tenents the figures they usually come up with is between 7.5 and 10%.

Originally i thought these were other BTL landlords who were suffering under the recent rate rises and had decided to pass the increases onto there tenent.

WRONG

There is one particular landlord who owns around 200 properties in the area who has decided to raise rents. Then other smaller usually BTL landlords have followed his lead.

As for me I'm putting up the rent by 12% and usually end up accepting around 8%.

I salute your courage, it would make this forum much more balanced and constructive if more BTL landlords were brave enough to post.

[Orbital]

Historically, rents have always risen in a stepwise manner, linked to house prices. Why would this change now? I thought we were big into history repeating itself on HPC!

[Minesapint]

Hey

I'm a small BTL landlord in manchester didsbury area. Recently many of the other landlords have started to put up rents and many people can no longer afford / or want to pay them. Talking to many perspective tenents the figures they usually come up with is between 7.5 and 10%.

Originally i thought these were other BTL landlords who were suffering under the recent rate rises and had decided to pass the increases onto there tenent.

WRONG

There is one particular landlord who owns around 200 properties in the area who has decided to raise rents. Then other smaller usually BTL landlords have followed his lead.

As for me I'm putting up the rent by 12% and usually end up accepting around 8%.

Do you do this annually or is this the first rise in 2+ years?

[Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable]

Hey

I'm a small BTL landlord in manchester didsbury area. Recently many of the other landlords have started to put up rents and many people can no longer afford / or want to pay them. Talking to many perspective tenents the figures they usually come up with is between 7.5 and 10%.

Originally i thought these were other BTL landlords who were suffering under the recent rate rises and had decided to pass the increases onto there tenent.

WRONG

There is one particular landlord who owns around 200 properties in the area who has decided to raise rents. Then other smaller usually BTL landlords have followed his lead.

As for me I'm putting up the rent by 12% and usually end up accepting around 8%.

Well, I suppose if you want to increase the probability of civil unrest while you spend the extra on being fellated in your new car, it's a fairly reasonable thing to do.

[Sour Mash]

You can't have a go at a man for maximizing his investment return.

I believe rents are firming up in some areas and that the most liklely cause is twofold.

a) STR'd people like myself want to rent and are not overly price sensitive.

Many young people with solid incomes just aren't interested in buying and are commiting themselves to renting longer term and are willing to keep or procure a decent rental property even at a higher price.

ANDY

Yep - plus BTL numpties will be looking to get more money from the renters to offset interest rate rises. They may or may not be successful in doing so but it's a supply and demand issue. If lots of people are looking to rent and there's en mass upward pressure on rents from landlords then rents will rise.

Another factor people need to consider is what happens when BTLers start exiting the market. That'll mean a lot of people out of their rented property and looking for a new place. More people wanting to rent, less supply of rental properties = higher demand = higher rents.

I'd say all factors point to higher rents in future and turbulence in the rented sector as landlords need to sell their properties.

[silver surfer]

Another factor people need to consider is what happens when BTLers start exiting the market. That'll mean a lot of people out of their rented property and looking for a new place. More people wanting to rent, less supply of rental properties = higher demand = higher rents.

So who will an exiting BTL landlord sell to in the current climate? That's right, a currently renting FTB. So one rental property exits the market at the same time as a renter exits. No net change in rental supply or demand here.

[Methinkshe]

I salute your courage, it would make this forum much more balanced and constructive if more BTL landlords were brave enough to post.

I agree. Not all landlords are modern day Rachmans as some would have us believe. I feel very sorry for those who tried BTL because they saw how Gordon (with his gold-plated, taxpayer-funded, inflation-linked pension) set about ruining everyone else's pensions. These poor people who, after all, were only trying to provide for themselves in their old age, will be among the first to sell up as they watch their BTL pensions head in the same direction as their work pensions. At least, those nearing retirement will. Younger ones may opt to sit it out. In any event, not all BTLetters are inherently bad people who deserve what's coming. As silver surfer says, more balance would greatly benefit this forum.

[Leonard Hatred]

Fast forward five years in this scenario... that'll be a big tax bill to pay for people's housing benefit, paid for by people stupid enough to still be working by then.

[Rizo]

For my existing tenents I have a rule of not increasing rents during the first year.

At the start of the second year i have a look at what the market price for a similar property will be and usually deduct around 5-3%.

For new tenents I'm letting properties at around 8% higher than what i was getting for previous tenents.

[symo]

Am i going mad but where are these huge numbers of renters coming from? Most immigrants are now returning to eastern europe in greater numbers than are arrving (Poland/Czech Republic/Slovakia) as they think it is too expnsive in Britain. The population is also getting older which means decling birthrate.

Personally can't make any sense of it myself.

[La La Land]

Hey

I'm a small BTL landlord in manchester didsbury area. Recently many of the other landlords have started to put up rents and many people can no longer afford / or want to pay them. Talking to many perspective tenents the figures they usually come up with is between 7.5 and 10%.

Surely if this is the case, then the landlords are increasing the likelihood of voids & defaults? If there is no more money to be had out of the tenants how are increases going to enrich them?

[huw]

Another factor people need to consider is what happens when BTLers start exiting the market. That'll mean a lot of people out of their rented property and looking for a new place. More people wanting to rent, less supply of rental properties = higher demand = higher rents.

Only if the properties remain empty for some reason, which means purchasers would need an incentive not to let them out (or even occupy them). I can't imagine what that incentive would be, in a falling market.

[Dingleberry]

For my existing tenents I have a rule of not increasing rents during the first year.

Right, but what sort of tenancy agreement do they have with you?

How often can you raise the rent, under the terms of the contract?

[Dingleberry]

Surely if this is the case, then the landlords are increasing the likelihood of voids & defaults? If there is no more money to be had out of the tenants how are increases going to enrich them?

Especially in the North.

We've a proud tradition of digging in and refusing to pay up here in Manchester. It's not so long since Hulme, that squatter's paradise, was festering and chuckling to itself scant miles from the city centre.

[Charliemouse]

As rents go up and prices come down, their will come a point when its cheaper to buy. This will be a natural cap on rents and as prices fall, so will rent.

Also, seeing as a huge number of households are drawing some kind of benefit e.g. housing benefit or working families, council tax etc etc, then i assume you will be expecting your rent hikes to be paid for by the government? Not a chance, the fair rent brigade will be re-founded and your hikes capped.

I hear of a recession around the corner. Where are the jobs going to come from to pay rent increases?.

You havn't thought this through have you.

Rents will rise short term as all the parasitic btl vultures attempt to impoverish even more people in order to make a profit, but it wont last.

Its going to get messy though, alot of btl parasites have committed mortgage fraud.

[Sour Mash]

Only if the properties remain empty for some reason, which means purchasers would need an incentive not to let them out (or even occupy them). I can't imagine what that incentive would be, in a falling market.

Many rental properties have multiple occupancies - groups of students or young professionals getting together to rent a place or else people renting a room in the house. Typically three bedrooms means at least three (adult) people. Sometimes four or five if there are couples.

Anyone buying is most likely doing so to to live in the house themselves (at least, until BTL sums make sense again). Unless they are moving in with a family, I doubt that there will be as many people in the house afterwards as before. The overall effect will be more adults looking to rent and less rental properties to choose from.

In any case, it means a lot of churn in the rental property sector as people are turfed out so that the house can be sold. That will create an environment where LLs can get away with asking more.

Before anyone says 'how will people pay' it's far from clear that rents are currently at an unsustainable, maximum level (unlike house prices). I'd say that if supply is restricted enough then people could quite probably be coerced into finding more money in their budgets for rent.

[rickspace]

Funny, last year my rent went down (North London) this year (June) it went up by 0.5%...

With the amount of flats to rent in London, I cant see it going up in the near future.

[Bear Goggles]

If rents really are shooting up, I must say I've not noticed it around here but there do seem to be a good few anecdotal stories recently, then we are entering a dangerous phase of the bubble.

So far anyone not stupid enough to lie-to-buy in cracksville has been able to take advantage of low rents. If LLs are successful in pushing rents up to cover increased mortgage payments, then a serious amount of spending money going to start coming out of the economy. Add to this tighter personal lending and a consumer lead recession is just around the corner. I personally think a recession will come after house prices have been falling for at least a year, however anecdotes of spiralling rents suggest it could come sooner rather than later.