Captain Coma Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 Maybe we should go round all the builders in our area and see what kind of deals we can get.....Say on a house get the best deal we can and then say we will do it as long as they cut the deal crap and just give it to us at the real rock bottom price. Exactly. The incentives are there purely to keep the price up for the record, otherwise why not just sell at the real price? (Although some buyers probably think they are getting the extras gratis.) Mind you, what do we think of a deal on a new car that includes "free" insurance and road fund licence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benedict Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 Mind you, what do we think of a deal on a new car that includes "free" insurance and road fund licence? Highly dubious, especially as insurance premium tax is 5% compared to 17.5% VAT. I know with travel insurance they put up IPT to 17.5% same as VAT to avoid the tax dodge, I think there are rules in place regarding allocation of costs between VAT liable products and bundled insurance costs though (i.e. no £10 cars when bought with insurance costing £15k for the first year). Anyway, as regards LR figures, don't they use the repeat sales regression method? I.e. only resales of properties that have already sold contribute to their figures. In which case the effects of this would be purely negative, the artificial inflation of the original price wouldn't show because that would be a first time sale so it wouldn't be included, but the false deflation in asking price value would be included, thus dragging the figures down more than if real prices were used all the way through. So if anything LR figures would be understating true movements because of this. Net effect on Rightmove etc figures is probably positive though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solvent Celt Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 As a side issue should an individual be paying tax on the "cashback"??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minesapint Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 Near me blatent cash back http://search.issl.co.uk/detailslite.aspx?...ltspagenumber=3 none sold though..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Finch Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 Even where I live (Muswell Hill / Hornsey - supposedly where prices are still going nuts) just today I saw an offer to pay the buyers' mortgage contributions for 2 years. Obviously there're loads of T & Cs wrapped around that but this sort of thing is clearly becoming a widespread tool for shifting unsold stock while preventing any evidence of price falls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Peter Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 As a side issue should an individual be paying tax on the "cashback"??? I remember asking this a couple of years ago, but no one seemed to think that it was an issue. But, as it's presented, a builder seems to have given the buyer a rather large cash gift. Normally the Inland Revenue are interested in such things, but apparently not here, Peter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minesapint Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 think discount no tax youve just paid less its the mortgage providers that should stop this - it makes a mockery of there LTV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warwick Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 I remember asking this a couple of years ago, but no one seemed to think that it was an issue. But, as it's presented, a builder seems to have given the buyer a rather large cash gift. Normally the Inland Revenue are interested in such things, but apparently not here,Peter. It's not really a gift. Any Capital Gains Tax would be based on the "net purchase price" (i.e. after the cash- back). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Peter Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 think discount no tax youve just paid lessits the mortgage providers that should stop this - it makes a mockery of there LTV But, as the OP states, it doesn't work quite like a discount, does it. If something's discounted, I pay less and, I presume that that less goes through all the books, to the Inland Revenue, etc. However, in this case, I pay less, but at least on some of the books (those related to the Land Registry and presumably stamp duty), the amount is still the full amount. So, at least as part of the official picture, I've actually been given something for nothing, Peter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solvent Celt Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 But, as the OP states, it doesn't work quite like a discount, does it. If something's discounted, I pay less and, I presume that that less goes through all the books, to the Inland Revenue, etc. However, in this case, I pay less, but at least on some of the books (those related to the Land Registry and presumably stamp duty), the amount is still the full amount. So, at least as part of the official picture, I've actually been given something for nothing,Peter. Yep you've handed over £x. You've obtained a mortgage for £x. You pay stamp duty on £x. Builder writes you a cheque for £y. Presumably you pay £y into your bank account? It isn't really a "Gift" as it's conditional on you buying a property. Presumably it's income? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minesapint Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 Yep you've handed over £x. You've obtained a mortgage for £x. You pay stamp duty on £x.Builder writes you a cheque for £y. Presumably you pay £y into your bank account? It isn't really a "Gift" as it's conditional on you buying a property. Presumably it's income? does that mean bogof offers are actually income..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimperne1 Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 A couple of years back I looked at some flats in Exeter, (near the big tescos)I worked with someone who had paid about £170,000 for his. Two years before When I went in identical flats were being sold for £140,000. Several incentives were being offered, the normal cashbacks, fees, stamp duty.... etc... To the value of £10,000 so that is £130,000 I suggested a further £10,000 to land me... and this was offered... I then declined saying that I was concerend that prices may fall... I recieved a sneer and was told that prices wouldn't drop... I pointed out that they had dropped by £10,000 in the last ten minutes... Sorry but, in the spirit of openess (and not intended as a sneer) that does not really ring true. Firstly, sounds like a big development if they were selling for over two years but that will only add to the following suggestion. Might be easy enough to see whether it is in any way verifiable. Apom, do you have the post code of the properties in question and we can look at what you have said on www.houseprices.co.uk. Happy to eat humble pie (and I know you will probably have large portions ready for me) if I am proved wrong. Whilst we cannot verify the size of the properties in question (ie how many bedrooms), seeing a £50k drop over a couple of years (especially since we are only talking four then two years ago) will be surprising. Lots of ifs and buts here (ie you are a better haggler than the eventual buyers/some have gardens etc) but the general direction of your post could well be supported (or undermined). Just street name would be sufficient along with approximate dates of purchase. Looks like you were a member of this website then, surely you could not resist posting it then (too labour intensive to check but I will take your word for it)? Yours, remaining to be convinced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 Its a Possession not a reposession- you have already given your house to the lender when you sign your mortgage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flapjack Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 Sorry but, in the spirit of openess (and not intended as a sneer) that does not really ring true. Firstly, sounds like a big development if they were selling for over two years but that will only add to the following suggestion. Might be easy enough to see whether it is in any way verifiable. Apom, do you have the post code of the properties in question and we can look at what you have said on www.houseprices.co.uk. Happy to eat humble pie (and I know you will probably have large portions ready for me) if I am proved wrong. Whilst we cannot verify the size of the properties in question (ie how many bedrooms), seeing a £50k drop over a couple of years (especially since we are only talking four then two years ago) will be surprising. Lots of ifs and buts here (ie you are a better haggler than the eventual buyers/some have gardens etc) but the general direction of your post could well be supported (or undermined). Just street name would be sufficient along with approximate dates of purchase. Looks like you were a member of this website then, surely you could not resist posting it then (too labour intensive to check but I will take your word for it)? Yours, remaining to be convinced. Development is probably Kings Heath - Barratts site - very near Tesco on ring road. Can't verify prices but there are still unsold properties there. But should add that there are a couple of other developers in same area. One notable site has a 'All sold ' sign outside but there is hardly any sign of life in the houses - most empty after six months. - Very odd - or not if you take in to account BTL - Buy To Leave! Will keep an eye on these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solvent Celt Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 does that mean bogof offers are actually income..... Christ do yuo get cash as part of a "Bogof"? I don't - I just get an extra item. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash4781 Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 Cash backs have long been associated with new build flats. To such an extent that it's hard to believe Lenders don't know it is happening. It's basically a con to make muppet landlords buy BTL at what they believe is a discounted price. Of couse this may mean that when certain posters gleefully provide us with examples of flats falling in value by 15-20% over a very short time scale ~ in reality they haven't fallen at all. Does the lender loan the full amount ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigwell Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 Interesting post on Motley Fool....http://boards.fool.co.uk/Message.asp?mid=1...p;sort=postdate Thanks for drawing attention to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minesapint Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 Christ do yuo get cash as part of a "Bogof"? I don't - I just get an extra item. in exactly the same way as you get cash for a cash back - let me see ok... House £100,000 £10k cashback you pay £90,000 you are not £10k better off you have just paid a lower price. 2 packs of stella @£10 each buy one get one free 2 packs cost £10 you are not £10 better off you have paid a lower price. what ever the pricing structure the cost is what you ultimately paid for it regardless at how you arrived at the sum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone_Twin Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 But I also assume income dosnt have to be in local Fiat. . Otherwise I would save some taxes by asking my boss to pay me in Kruggerands. . ST Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belfast Boy Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 But I also assume income dosnt have to be in local Fiat.. Otherwise I would save some taxes by asking my boss to pay me in Kruggerands. . ST Why did Motley Fool censor this post? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wrongmove Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 Getting a bit paranoid here! Here is the post - the OP just had a duff link. Does no-one think to check before leaping to ludicrous conclusions? http://boards.fool.co.uk/Message.asp?mid=10688050 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spirit Posted September 9, 2007 Author Share Posted September 9, 2007 Getting a bit paranoid here! Here is the post - the OP just had a duff link. Does no-one think to check before leaping to ludicrous conclusions? http://boards.fool.co.uk/Message.asp?mid=10688050 No it wasn't a 'duff link'. The original post (containing the address details further down in the post was deleted almost immediately. The poster then reposted later on, with the details asterisked out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wrongmove Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 No it wasn't a 'duff link'. The original post (containing the address details further down in the post was deleted almost immediately. The poster then reposted later on, with the details asterisked out. My apologies Spirit - your link was clearly fine - and it wasn't you who was accusing "the VIs" of deleting the post anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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