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gasket37

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Based on a model used in Denmark, the new scheme would replace council tax with a property charge of one per cent of the value of our homes.

On an average home worth £200,000 the new charge would produce a bill of £2,000 a year, compared with an average council tax bill of £1,300 – an increase of more than 50 per cent.

And what if you are in a council house of that value just because of where you live.

Arguments about council tax being paid on any form of what the house is worth is flawed for those renting/council/HA. People forget the renters.

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He'll never go through with that. Local authority taxation is the most visible and resented of all taxation, however you do it. It simply can't be stealthily concealed. Stick an extra £700 on the ubiquitous 'Middle England' property, and Labour will never win another seat south of Hadrian's Wall or east of the Severn Bridge for generations.

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And what if you are in a council house of that value just because of where you live.

Arguments about council tax being paid on any form of what the house is worth is flawed for those renting/council/HA. People forget the renters.

Exactly. This would increase my Council Tax 400% (not a typo, thats four hundred!)

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But all these extra {insert the nulabour spending plan of your choice here} need paying for.

yep - all those local government pensions for one...

wasn't a change in property tax mooted before the 2005 general election but firmly punted into the long grass by brown?

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It's screamingly obvious he's going to raise taxes. It's equally obvious that property is an easy target. If he get his bands right he can wallop those with, say houses over £500,000 - ie Londoners and the SEast. Who in the press will pity a person with a £500,000 house whinging that they are paying more? No one. Then, slowly, along with inflation, we'll all be sucked up to higher band levels. He's played this trick very successfully with stamp duty.

There have been press reports that he's linking in with Rightmove/Prime Location (?) to collect their data for the re-valuation process. Anyone buying or selling a house should insist that their private data is not sold/passed to the government.

So house prices will fall - but still people won't be able to afford them!

Without a substantial rise in taxes how can he buy off the unions and continue to 'employ' 40% of the nation?

Brown is a socialist not a social democrat. His cunning plan has been to sneak it in when no-one's looking.

Edited by nigwell

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I'm pretty sure what a future tax will be.....

Capital gains on the selling of your main home with tapered relief up to 10 years like other countries in the Euorpean mainland.

It will be described as follows:

A tax that ensures that people pay the "right amount" of tax - a fair tax. :lol:

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Bottom line is that governements of all types place the taxes where the money is.

Increasingly it is becoming imposisble to tax firms as they threaten to move operations offshore or just use transfer pricing schemes to reduce reported profits in high tax locations. Individuals pay tax on PAYE but they are sensitive to further income tax rises so the next best way to tax is to raise a tax on imobile property that is very difficult to escape and central governent is not directly involved in levying. However, cutting central governement subsidy to local authorities at the same time will allow the central governemnt coffers to receive a slice of the local property taxes by an indirect route. A property tax would also catch non-domiciles who live in London.

I see this local property tax as inevitable. It might even be a good thing if it were coupled with a removal of stamp duty and IHT that seriously distort the housing market and investment more generally. Raising a local property tax would force people to only live in a house that is exactly the right size for their needs. The attractiveness of keeping second homes for holidays would fall dramatically and old people would rationally decide to sell large houses that they do not really need to live in on their own and buy something smaller. This might well produce a sudden surge of family sized homes on to the market instead of being horded as a tax shield.

Residential property in general is very lightly taxed compared with all other investments as it does not attract CGT so introducing a higher local property tax would be a way of correcting that imbalance without having to impose a CGT burden which is politically impossible.

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Guest grumpy-old-man
How would they determine the market value of a property?

the market will dictate the price of the property very shortly once negative sentiment is fully established.This will be by mid 2008 imo, at the moment they are in the denial stage.

it's like watching in sloooooooow motion. :D

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the market will dictate the price of the property very shortly once negative sentiment is fully established.This will be by mid 2008 imo, at the moment they are in the denial stage.

it's like watching in sloooooooow motion. :D

I mean how would the gov determine the value when working out 1% council tax

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Guest grumpy-old-man
I mean how would the gov determine the value when working out 1% council tax

I know what you all meant I just thought the thread needed a touch of cynasism injecting. ;)

why do you think google earth was designed & is provided free ? it gives you every property in the UK with all extensions & external modifications.......now I wonder what that would be useful for. <_<

ah, hang on a minute, hasn't the UK populas been encouraged to spend, spend, spend on their shiny houses, ensuring that they are bigger, better & stand out from the rest in the street. :ph34r:

Then impose a tax on it.

remember the 4 x 4's.....encourage them with a mass sales plan, they tax them to fook.

Like I say I find it all hilarious.

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I mean how would the gov determine the value when working out 1% council tax

The same way they valued all the properties in the UK in 1991 for the current council tax.

Basically, this new proposal is no different to the current council tax, its just a different way to calculate it so that it possible to increase it.

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It's screamingly obvious he's going to raise taxes. It's equally obvious that property is an easy target. If he get his bands right he can wallop those with, say houses over £500,000 - ie Londoners and the SEast. Who in the press will pity a person with a £500,000 house whinging that they are paying more? No one. Then, slowly, along with inflation, we'll all be sucked up to higher band levels. He's played this trick very successfully with stamp duty.

There have been press reports that he's linking in with Rightmove/Prime Location (?) to collect their data for the re-valuation process. Anyone buying or selling a house should insist that their private data is not sold/passed to the government.

So house prices will fall - but still people won't be able to afford them!

Without a substantial rise in taxes how can he buy off the unions and continue to 'employ' 40% of the nation?

Brown is a socialist not a social democrat. His cunning plan has been to sneak it in when no-one's looking.

No way. Taxes are very, very unlikely to rise. The public sector spending for the next 5 years is clamped right down. 2% pay rises for publc sector for the foreseeable. Large swathes of lay offs coming. Recruitment freezes. The public sector pay party is over. End of.

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Like I say I find it all hilarious.

Same here. There is no way they would be able to get this in. Like I said, in my case, my council tax would quadruple!!!! And I doubt I'd be alone. This would be to Brown as the Poll Tax was to Maggie.

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No way. Taxes are very, very unlikely to rise. The public sector spending for the next 5 years is clamped right down. 2% pay rises for publc sector for the foreseeable. Large swathes of lay offs coming. Recruitment freezes. The public sector pay party is over. End of.

Agreed. But stealth taxes will go crazyyyy.

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It's screamingly obvious he's going to raise taxes. It's equally obvious that property is an easy target. If he get his bands right he can wallop those with, say houses over £500,000 - ie Londoners and the SEast. Who in the press will pity a person with a £500,000 house whinging that they are paying more? No one. Then, slowly, along with inflation, we'll all be sucked up to higher band levels. He's played this trick very successfully with stamp duty.

There have been press reports that he's linking in with Rightmove/Prime Location (?) to collect their data for the re-valuation process. Anyone buying or selling a house should insist that their private data is not sold/passed to the government.

So house prices will fall - but still people won't be able to afford them!

Without a substantial rise in taxes how can he buy off the unions and continue to 'employ' 40% of the nation?

Brown is a socialist not a social democrat. His cunning plan has been to sneak it in when no-one's looking.

"Who in the press will pity a person with a £500,000 house whinging that they are paying more?"

Good point - I certainly don't pity them. Why should they be moaning anyway - that £500k house was probably bought for half the price.

"Anyone buying or selling a house should insist that their private data is not sold/passed to the government."

In the end, they'll find out anyway.

"So house prices will fall - but still people won't be able to afford them!"

The fact is I can't afford a house NOW with these extortionate prices. So as an experiment, let's just see if I can afford a house when prices fall. If they do fall and I still can't afford to buy, well hey, nothing lost, nothing gained. I'm still in the same position.

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Guest grumpy-old-man
Same here. There is no way they would be able to get this in. Like I said, in my case, my council tax would quadruple!!!! And I doubt I'd be alone. This would be to Brown as the Poll Tax was to Maggie.

just wait until Mr & Mrs Average realise that their houses are going down in value for the first time in their lives (for most of them), that will be the final straw. Then will have people in the streets against council tax, wage increase etc.

Lots & lots of strikes, it's all so inevitable really.

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Residential property in general is very lightly taxed compared with all other investments as it does not attract CGT so introducing a higher local property tax would be a way of correcting that imbalance without having to impose a CGT burden which is politically impossible.

Not sure if I agree.

- Its never been discussed before (Just like students having to pay fees came out of the blue)

- Its done in Europe

- It would NOT affect most Labour supporters - only aspirational people (Tories anyway).

- No tax to pay if you have lived in your house for more than 10 years and only kicks if more than above a set limit - say 500K. Heck the limit could be regional!

- It would be cheap to administer. (Latest selling price - last selling price) * tapered tax.

I think its done deal after New labour get back into power and will bring a lot of money in. Most people wouldn't be bothered because it is a tax that they won't see. Its only when they sell that they see it!

"Labour is making sure that housing is affordable" etc

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just wait until Mr & Mrs Average realise that their houses are going down in value for the first time in their lives (for most of them), that will be the final straw. Then will have people in the streets against council tax, wage increase etc.

Lots & lots of strikes, it's all so inevitable really.

IMO, massive swathes of strikes is a done deal now. It hasn't begun yet, but the public sector pay freeze which is now effectively in place for the next decade will cause rising numbers of strikes. In turn, productivity is going to fall further. The NHS in particular is IMO about to implode. And there's no way any government will be able to raise local taxes the way they would with a 1% property value tax. That would be an instant massive tax hike for most people, of the sort that will make them most angry.

I'm really hoping this government gets re-elected soon, because I want it to have to endure 5 years of utter collapse of the country's economics, brought about by the ludicrous public sector spending and low IR pump priming that has given smug socialists reason to say "the best ten years ever" etc. The payback is going to bring tears to their eyes.

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The funny thing is, the more expensive someone's house is, the less of the council's "services" they probably use!

I think this is spin, release a story saying something terrible is coming, then just do half as bad and the people think they have had a let off!

Or they'll phase it in, make half the tax bill 0.5% of the property and slowly increase the ratio over 10yrs.

baaaaarrrr baaaaarrrr

Edited by DEATH

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"Who in the press will pity a person with a £500,000 house whinging that they are paying more?"

Good point - I certainly don't pity them. Why should they be moaning anyway - that £500k house was probably bought for half the price.

No, it's not a good point, in fact, it's a point that us bears argue on all the time regarding house prices. If a one bedroomed property has doubled in the last 5 years (as has happened on my street), I've still only got a 1 bedroomed flat, its only doubled in value on paper. And how could you downsize in a one bedroomed flat?

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