The Cheek Of Gordon Brown

[Jason]

I disagree.

He's not really complaining about inflation, just about a below inflation pay increase.

The lax fiscal policy of the government was responsible for the situation that required 5 rate rises in rapid succession, a situation that 5 rapid rate rises has not solved. It is not the POs fault that the government has allowed the cost of living to increase rapidly and they deserve a pay increase at least in line with inflation.

Ok, fair point. But interest rate rises is not inflation, the rising cost of goods is. It would be far amore ccurate and meaningful for the POA to comment on the cost of living, not the cost of servicing debt.

However, i'm sure that chap, and most of the BBC reading public won't get my point.

[Guest]

The prime minister said he would "do nothing to put" economic stability or low interest rates at risk.

He means he doesn't want the blame when it *does* happen.

"My members have had to take, as many other members of the public had to take, five interest rate (rises) this year on their mortgages."

Taken in isolation, it's factually correct. What are you complaining about? The problem is that interest rates are above the level of salary rises, and until average salary rises go above the average level of interest rates, there is *no hope* of a 1970s property ladder for anyone.

I fully expect the next GE to be the dirtiest we've ever seen fought.

I fully expect you'll be disappointed. It'll be smug smiles from the Tories as they scramble to find irrelevant "policies" for off-the-radar "issues", whilst finding as many photo opportunities with little old ladies as possible. And talking about marriage a lot. And schools (a bit). And hospitals a little bit but not too much. Oh, and maybe some tax on planes and climate change. That little lot should *just* be enough to see Gordon eat his own s**t for five years.

[South Lorne]

The problem is that interest rates are above the level of salary rises, and until average salary rises go above the average level of interest rates, there is *no hope* of a 1970s property ladder for anyone.

.....your economics will take us down the Zim route......

[Guest]

.....your economics will take us down the Zim route......

Only trying to help

[Bug16]

When he says "keeping interest rates low" was he out of the country when the BofE raised them?

IR's are still low. A few more .25% rises would still be keeping them low.

[South Lorne]

IR's are still low. A few more .25% rises would still be keeping them low.

...he needs them low to keep his bubble expanding.......but he is in Noddy land if he thinks he can fight inflation that way...

[Impartial]

The biggest argument they should have used is that inflation is a rise in the cost of living.

Pay settlements of 1.9% are below the rate of inflation which will have a detremental affect on their standard of living. They are effectively taking a pay cut.

The longer this goes on the more their standard of living will slip.

You cannot persecute the few in order to control inflation, inflation is to be controlled by the MPC, Not the Prime Minister. Everyone is entitled to a renumeration at least equivelant to the rate of inflation otherwise they are getting a pay cut.

[munimula]

The prime minister said he would "do nothing to put" economic stability or low interest rates at risk.

delaying part of this year's public sector pay rise was "an essential part" of tackling inflation.

But Mr Brown, who decided to stage the pay rises when he was chancellor, said: "We have succeeded in tackling inflation and having a stable economy because of discipline in pay over the last ten years. That discipline will have to continue."

He said staging pay awards was an "essential part" of controlling inflation, keeping interest rates low and creating more jobs.

"We will do nothing, nothing, to put that at risk. It is an essential element of maintaining discipline in the economy."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6970021.stm

I really just want to smack that man silly.

yeah, I was under the impression that it was the job of interest rates to target inflation, as set by the BoE, not the job of public sector employees to take pay cuts

[sunonmars]

The biggest argument they should have used is that inflation is a rise in the cost of living.

Pay settlements of 1.9% are below the rate of inflation which will have a detremental affect on their standard of living. They are effectively taking a pay cut.

The longer this goes on the more their standard of living will slip.

You cannot persecute the few in order to control inflation, inflation is to be controlled by the MPC, Not the Prime Minister. Everyone is entitled to a renumeration at least equivelant to the rate of inflation otherwise they are getting a pay cut.

However as we long suspected amd knew and was finally admitted today, The MPC control jacksh£t and Gordon controls the lot. So we have one man propping up his legacy by any means possible and screw the rest of us.

[meow]

It would be far more accurate and meaningful for the POA to comment on the cost of living, not the cost of servicing debt.

Yes, but when the main cost of living is housing costs (i.e. a mortgage) then interest rates going up makes servicing debt more expensive, making the cost of living go up...

(granted that argument doesn't quite stand up if you rent)

[Guest]

IR's are still low. A few more .25% rises would still be keeping them low.

I hear this a lot, but it only really applies (and let's talk house buying) if you believe that the house market didn't price in the interest rate cuts! I think that would take some believing...

From a borrower's perspective, on an adjustable rate, or one that's going to nastily reset soon, what matters is the differential between the rate at which you borrow, and whatever the current rate is.

So:

1988 LOW 8%

1990 HIGH 15%

CHANGE +87.5%

2003 LOW 3.5%

2007 .... 5.75%

CHANGE TO DATE +64%

... which is why Mr Public Sector Representative Man is bleating, and is also why the Daily Diana Press Woman is ****** herself about interest rate rises by the Nasty Mr Bank Of England Man.

NB I did this on the base rate, should have done on the mortgage rate(s) but you get the picture.

[Wad]

Yes, but when the main cost of living is housing costs (i.e. a mortgage) then interest rates going up makes servicing debt more expensive, making the cost of living go up...

(granted that argument doesn't quite stand up if you rent)

Exactly. What we are finally beginning to see is the impact of HPI on wage inflation. While interest rates were falling or stable over the last decade no one saw their cost of housing rise because their mortgage interest payments never went up. They could afford to just take a 4 - 5% pay rise and genuinely be better off. Now interest rates have gone up everyone suddenly needs a pay rise and quickly. They need a lot more than 2 - 3% in their wage packet too! They need 10 - 15%. In other words they need to see the same rate of wage inflaion as we have seen in HPI.

Interesting to see who gets it and who does not.

[richc]

Public sector pay is the only thing that Brown can use to control inflation. The rest, food/housing/electricty etc, are outwith his control and he cannot/will not tackle these areas as they are powerful lobbies and funders of politicians.

That's total cr*p. Brown is the one who foisted the CPI target onto the Bank of England when granting them "independence", which was nothing but a recipe for housing inflation and increases in the real cost of living. CPI was designed for the German economy where the majority of households rent from the private sector, and so using only rent to represent housing costs makes sense there. To then adopt that figure in the UK, however, where only 10% of households rent privately is ridiculous. Brown created the housing bubble and debt binge in order to fuel his miracle economy and now public sector workers and anyone else with indexed wages are paying the price. And then to claim at the same time that he is doing all he can to maintain economic stability is just absurd. The cynicism of this man is mind boggling.

[meow]

That's total cr*p. Brown is the one who foisted the CPI target onto the Bank of England when granting them "independence", which was nothing but a recipe for housing inflation and increases in the real cost of living. CPI was designed for the German economy where the majority of households rent from the private sector, and so using only rent to represent housing costs makes sense there. To then adopt that figure in the UK, however, where only 10% of households rent privately is ridiculous. Brown created the housing bubble and debt binge in order to fuel his miracle economy and now public sector workers and anyone else with indexed wages are paying the price. And then to claim at the same time that he is doing all he can to maintain economic stability is just absurd. The cynicism of this man is mind boggling.

Wouldn't that assume he is aware of the difference between his a*se and his elbow though?

[nerble]

That's total cr*p. Brown is the one who foisted the CPI target onto the Bank of England when granting them "independence", which was nothing but a recipe for housing inflation and increases in the real cost of living. CPI was designed for the German economy where the majority of households rent from the private sector, and so using only rent to represent housing costs makes sense there. To then adopt that figure in the UK, however, where only 10% of households rent privately is ridiculous. Brown created the housing bubble and debt binge in order to fuel his miracle economy and now public sector workers and anyone else with indexed wages are paying the price. And then to claim at the same time that he is doing all he can to maintain economic stability is just absurd. The cynicism of this man is mind boggling.

"Britain cannot afford a recurrence of the all too familiar pattern of previous recoveries: accelerating consumer spending and borrowing side by side with skills shortages, capacity constraints, increased imports and rising inflation.

Already there are warning signs that this pattern could be repeated. In similar circumstances some of my predecessors have ignored these signs while others have deluded themselves into believing that growth, however unbalanced, was evidence of their success. I will not ignore the warning signs and I will not repeat past mistakes."

Gordon Brown - Budget Speech 1997

and most deliciously, from the same budget speech (his first):

"I am determined that as a country we never return to the instability, speculation, and negative equity that characterised the housing market in the 1980s and 1990s.

Volatility is damaging both to the housing market and to the economy as a whole. So stability will be central to our policy to help homeowners. And we must be prepared to take the action necessary to secure it. I will not allow house prices to get out of control and put at risk the sustainability of the recovery."

He really was a sanctimonious git back then.

[sunonmars]

"Britain cannot afford a recurrence of the all too familiar pattern of previous recoveries: accelerating consumer spending and borrowing side by side with skills shortages, capacity constraints, increased imports and rising inflation.

Already there are warning signs that this pattern could be repeated. In similar circumstances some of my predecessors have ignored these signs while others have deluded themselves into believing that growth, however unbalanced, was evidence of their success. I will not ignore the warning signs and I will not repeat past mistakes."

Gordon Brown - Budget Speech 1997

and most deliciously, from the same budget speech (his first):

"I am determined that as a country we never return to the instability, speculation, and negative equity that characterised the housing market in the 1980s and 1990s.

Volatility is damaging both to the housing market and to the economy as a whole. So stability will be central to our policy to help homeowners. And we must be prepared to take the action necessary to secure it. I will not allow house prices to get out of control and put at risk the sustainability of the recovery."

He really was a sanctimonious git back then.

"I will not allow house prices to get out of control and put at risk the sustainability of the recovery."

They should replay that on the hour every hour on news reports showing what a total lying sack of sh^t he is.

[South Lorne]

"I will not allow house prices to get out of control and put at risk the sustainability of the recovery."

They should replay that on the hour every hour on news reports showing what a total lying sack of sh^t he is.

...ignorance is no defence ...but ....really he doesn't understand any of it.......!....

[red]

"I will not allow house prices to get out of control and put at risk the sustainability of the recovery."

They should replay that on the hour every hour on news reports showing what a total lying sack of sh^t he is.

As well as the infamous "no more boom & bust" - from the man who, as chancellor, has presided over the biggest housing boom in UK history thanks to fiddled inflation figures/low IRs...

[Compounded]

If I were only intrested in the fortunes of the tory party, I would want Gordon to win the next GE he would fulfil the role of Major for the tories and condemn his party to years of opposition.

As for whats best for me or the country, I have not worked that out yet. Not sure it even really matters.

[South Lorne]

If I were only intrested in the fortunes of the tory party, I would want Gordon to win the next GE he would fulfil the role of Major for the tories and condemn his party to years of opposition.

As for whats best for me or the country, I have not worked that out yet. Not sure it even really matters.

...let Gordo have it and suffer the foolishness of his own ways.....the others..... whoever..... will not be able to fix this big one....just hold on tight and ride it.......!......

[Compounded]

I just do not have the belief that the tories will be anymore honest than this bunch.

I wish I had the feeling I had in 1979 - the feeling i could vote for someone who would change things in a way that would make a difference for the better.

[sunonmars]

I just do not have the belief that the tories will be anymore honest than this bunch.

I wish I had the feeling I had in 1979 - the feeling i could vote for someone who would change things in a way that would make a difference for the better.

to be honest i think i'd vote for Donald Duck if it got this load of sh^tes out of office.

[Jimmy2Times]

to be honest i think i'd vote for Donald Duck if it got this load of sh^tes out of office.

Donald duck is a fictional character, current candidate rules wont allow this.

[stormymonday_2011]

An incomes policy ? How very 1970s. Whatever next a three day week.

[Value]

The man is a freak and an aberration, we don't need him in UK politics.

I agree...but can anyone name a politician that doesn't fit this description?