" Cameron Talks Tough On Immigration"

[Realistbear]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...migrants130.xml

By Toby "Tobias" Helm, Chief Political Correspondent

Last Updated: 2:11am BST 30/08/2007

David Cameron has set out a tough new stance on immigration, promising curbs to limit the number of people coming in as a way of easing pressure on schools, hospitals and housing.

Mr Cameron: 'I think the levels of migration we've seen have put too great a burden on public services'

Swinging his party back on to more traditional Conservative territory, the Tory leader said the number of people arriving in Britain over a decade of Labour government had been "too high".

The "huge numbers" had placed "too great a burden" on public services, which were creaking under the pressure.

At last a policy which reflects the number one concern of the majority of the population.

Unless Brown can offer immigrants a guarantee that they will be housed he should not be operating an open frontier policy.

[Xurbia]

David Cameron has set out a tough new stance on immigration, promising curbs to limit the number of people coming in as a way of easing pressure on schools, hospitals and housing.

Mr Cameron: 'I think the levels of migration we've seen have put too great a burden on public services'

Unless you force illegal immigrants to leave I can't see how this is useful. It's too late!!! They have more human rights than taxpayers. You cannot tell the Eastern Europeans to leave either. That's just not cricket. They were asked to come and it's only fair they're allowed to stay......... however inept, myopic and unsustainable the government policy might be. Cameron will do sweet FA.

[Guest AuntJess]

Unless you force illegal immigrants to leave I can't see how this is useful. It's too late!!! They have more human rights than taxpayers. You cannot tell the Eastern Europeans to leave either. That's just not cricket. They were asked to come and it's only fair they're allowed to stay......... however inept, myopic and unsustainable the government policy might be. Cameron will do sweet FA.

I agree! As per, it is "too little, too late". Why oh why do politicians not get the message..the larger picture until way after it can be remedied? It isn't as though they have another job to do. It IS their job, to work out appropriate policies and to govern us...

Calling them " Her Majesty's Government is sure a misnomer.

EDIT: displaying zero foresight DOES tend to nudge them into the psychopathic 'slot'

Edited August 30, 2007 by AuntJess

[sunonmars]

I wouldnt worry about it, when the big crash happens, many immigrants will be the first to bugger off with their money when the country goes into depression.

[Cogs]

This could get dangerous.

Since the NHS thing blew up in his face Cameron is pushing out an "idea" a day at the moment. He's trying to bury the debate in quantity rather than quality.

I suspect there is very little thought going into his action, I'm reminded of what "The Thick of It" portrayed.

The content specifically isn't what bothers me, its that in power this sort of response leads to terrible, counter-productive legislation.

Another question mark against Lord Snooty I'm afraid.

[nigwell]

Unless Brown can offer immigrants a guarantee that they will be housed he should not be operating an open frontier policy.

I agree. We have to control immigration and ensure that those allowed in are adequately looked after.

Failure to manage the situation is forcing new migrants into crime and the blackmarket in labour which in turn hurts exisiting residents and puts pressure on the social fabric. Of course this whole open door policy is Gordon's great socialist idea. It helps feed the world, gives him freee market cred, buys the immigrant vote and more importantly, keeps a downward pressure on the lower paid while weakening the unions. How is that Socialist? Because it keeps him in power and he's a socialist. It amazes me that Labour is still supported by the working wo/man given how he is manipulating the economy against them. The Lib Dems appear more left wing than Labour!

[dstars]

Cameron should cut down the 'huge numbers' of old Etonians in the shadow cabinet then he might have a chance of getting to cut anything else at all.

[IDN]

I agree. We have to control immigration and ensure that those allowed in are adequately looked after.

Failure to manage the situation is forcing new migrants into crime and the blackmarket in labour which in turn hurts exisiting residents and puts pressure on the social fabric. Of course this whole open door policy is Gordon's great socialist idea. It helps feed the world, gives him freee market cred, buys the immigrant vote and more importantly, keeps a downward pressure on the lower paid while weakening the unions. How is that Socialist? Because it keeps him in power and he's a socialist. It amazes me that Labour is still supported by the working wo/man given how he is manipulating the economy against them. The Lib Dems appear more left wing than Labour!

london is already a over populated city- i dont think we could house too many more people- regardless of where they come from.

[simon99]

Watching Newsnight last night I got the impression he was just talking about restricting immigration from any new european countries that may join in future. I think they said there was nothing they could do about migration from current european countries.

[nigwell]

Cameron should cut down the 'huge numbers' of old Etonians in the shadow cabinet then he might have a chance of getting to cut anything else at all.

I don't like any of them, Lab, Lib or Con. BUT I am fed up with Labour. They've had too long in power and I want a change. They are arrogant, complacent, trough snufflers and they've been in so long they think they own the place. A new lot will take a while to work out how to milk us for their own benefit and I'd prefer that. In five years, perhaps I will then turn on them. Tribal politics is so last century.

Edited August 30, 2007 by nigwell

[sunonmars]

one of the most horrible side effects of a nasty crash is, that you think the british attitude towards immigrants is nasty now, wait until you see what it will be like when a recession or depression occurs and theres no money and people feel disadvantaged, population moods can take a nasty turn very quickly.

[Rain'ard]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...migrants130.xml

By Toby "Tobias" Helm, Chief Political Correspondent

Last Updated: 2:11am BST 30/08/2007

David Cameron has set out a tough new stance on immigration, promising curbs to limit the number of people coming in as a way of easing pressure on schools, hospitals and housing.

Mr Cameron: 'I think the levels of migration we've seen have put too great a burden on public services'

Swinging his party back on to more traditional Conservative territory, the Tory leader said the number of people arriving in Britain over a decade of Labour government had been "too high".

The "huge numbers" had placed "too great a burden" on public services, which were creaking under the pressure.

At last a policy which reflects the number one concern of the majority of the population.

Unless Brown can offer immigrants a guarantee that they will be housed he should not be operating an open frontier policy.

Unless, political parties take full responsibility for the mess we experience by immigration as cheap labour supply, conflict in cultures, crimes committed particularly violence against women then we the ordinary people will be forced to live with it.

I am sick to death of reading about horrendous crimes in which the perpetrators bear foreign names, when it’s bad enough where we are amply supplied by our own indigenous population.

Immigration, may be good for industries such as contract s***thouse cleaners, but powerless people like most of us are totally drained by it.

Unfortunately, the only parties that recognise this are the extremes and have unpleasant undertones like that associated with nineteen thirties style coloured shirt brigades.

The trouble is when we get insincere careerist, and opportunist, politicians such a Cameron, polymorphs suddenly into Genghis Khan, then the problematic governing party gets defensive and goes the other way and ad infinitum. So as true to democracy no ones satisfied.

I know some immigration is a good thing in its right perspective but being a floating prison ship and slave labour camp for Europe and the rest of the world is not the same ideal. IMHO

[iamnumerate]

Unless you force illegal immigrants to leave I can't see how this is useful. It's too late!!! They have more human rights than taxpayers. You cannot tell the Eastern Europeans to leave either. That's just not cricket. They were asked to come and it's only fair they're allowed to stay......... however inept, myopic and unsustainable the government policy might be. Cameron will do sweet FA.

You do not need to force illegal immigrants to leave. You just need to make it less attractive to be illegal which would be very easy :-

1) Illegal immigrants never become illegal, if you steal £1 million worth of gold it will never be legal gold the same should be true of illegal immigration. Every single argument in favour of illegal immigrants becoming legal eg they would pay tax are the same for stolen property becoming legal

2) If people employ or house illegal immigrants they get heavy fines and the reportee gets 10% even if they are illegal.

Which means they will not be able to find jobs or housing - they will have to leave. I have let an illegal immigrant stay with me - I would not have done if it was illegal.

[iamnumerate]

I wouldnt worry about it, when the big crash happens, many immigrants will be the first to bugger off with their money when the country goes into depression.

The educated ones will, the rest will get council housing and benefits and never work again !

[iamnumerate]

london is already a over populated city- i dont think we could house too many more people- regardless of where they come from.

True

[Xurbia]

You do not need to force illegal immigrants to leave. You just need to make it less attractive to be illegal which would be very easy :-

1) Illegal immigrants never become illegal, if you steal £1 million worth of gold it will never be legal gold the same should be true of illegal immigration. Every single argument in favour of illegal immigrants becoming legal eg they would pay tax are the same for stolen property becoming legal

2) If people employ or house illegal immigrants they get heavy fines and the reportee gets 10% even if they are illegal.

Which means they will not be able to find jobs or housing - they will have to leave. I have let an illegal immigrant stay with me - I would not have done if it was illegal.

There's many ways to deal with illegal immigrants. Unfortunately this would create hardship for the few true asylum victims that need help. The government's immigration stance is laughable. Given that there is a real terrorist threat every single alien needs scrutiny. It's probably best for the country's longterm future to take a very hard position: anyone entering the country illegally is held in a proper prison and then deported immediately. If they refuse to declare their place of origin they remain in prison. Would this be effective though? I would imagine that passports are pretty easy to come by in Eastern Europe.

Edited August 30, 2007 by Xurbia

[sunonmars]

There's many ways to deal with illegal immigrants. Unfortunately this would create hardship for the few true asylum victims that need help. The government's immigration stance is laughable. Given that there is a real terrorist threat every single alien needs scrutiny. It's probably best for the country's longterm future to take a very hard position: anyone entering the country illegally is held in a proper prison and then deported immediately. If they refuse to declare their place of origin they remain in prison. Would this be effective though? I would imagine that passports are pretty easy to come by in Eastern Europe.

I used to work in a passport check, visa identity and fraud office, there are many ways you can check, they just dont want to do it as its too much red tape. I can spot fake documents a mile off.

One way to check identity fraud passports, is that most of these people have no background, anyone who is established in the uk, has family background, friends, tracks, you can find out easily by picking up a phone. Trust me they know this. There are many tell tale signs. One recommendation that i always thought was a good one was when passports were issued, the passport photos of the person were on a database that customs, police and airport could access the picture immediately. Any suspicious identity fraud activity could be spotted quickly.

For gods sake i had one guys who's passport was made up from two passports and whoever made made the mistake of putting it together forgot the consecutive numbers on the pages and one page was a different number than the rest.

The biggest fraud i have to tell you is Student Visa's. Most of them are working fulltime and not attending colleges, certain cheap companies that use door to door sales for changing contracts for things, ahem hire them by the bucketload, they use them as self employed, therefore no NI to be paid, fake NI numbers, the kid makes money, pays no NI and buggers off. The companies plead no knowledge. They also stay past their visa expiry and never leave.

[chichi]

This could get dangerous.

Since the NHS thing blew up in his face Cameron is pushing out an "idea" a day at the moment. He's trying to bury the debate in quantity rather than quality.

I suspect there is very little thought going into his action, I'm reminded of what "The Thick of It" portrayed.

The content specifically isn't what bothers me, its that in power this sort of response leads to terrible, counter-productive legislation.

Another question mark against Lord Snooty I'm afraid.

the NHS thing - I expect in a year or so it'll come out that all the hospitals on his list were under threat but sheeple have listened to the muppets in charge who promise them their jobs are safe

[snap_crackle_and_pop]

I wouldnt worry about it, when the big crash happens, many immigrants will be the first to bugger off with their money when the country goes into depression.

Wot crash ? With the fed thinking about lowering interest rats - the BoE is sure to follow and then hpi will rocket once again with even more immigrants flooding into the country...

[iamnumerate]

There's many ways to deal with illegal immigrants. Unfortunately this would create hardship for the few true asylum victims that need help. The government's immigration stance is laughable. Given that there is a real terrorist threat every single alien needs scrutiny. It's probably best for the country's longterm future to take a very hard position: anyone entering the country illegally is held in a proper prison and then deported immediately. If they refuse to declare their place of origin they remain in prison. Would this be effective though? I would imagine that passports are pretty easy to come by in Eastern Europe.

No it would not create hardship - asylum seekers would still be able to seek asylum. The main problem about toughening down on illegal immigration would be that we would have more asylum seekers. We should be like the US and not let asylum seekers visit their home country (which if they are genuine would not be a problem) for a few years. Also if people fraudalently seek asylum and are found out (I am only taking about obviously fraud like people who go home the day they get asylum or do not even come from the country they said) they should face criminal sanctions. This should be a real risk for fraudsters.

[jp1]

This could get dangerous.

Since the NHS thing blew up in his face Cameron is pushing out an "idea" a day at the moment. He's trying to bury the debate in quantity rather than quality.

I suspect there is very little thought going into his action, I'm reminded of what "The Thick of It" portrayed.

The content specifically isn't what bothers me, its that in power this sort of response leads to terrible, counter-productive legislation.

Another question mark against Lord Snooty I'm afraid.

So a few weeks ago he was "vacuous" and had no policies - now he's got too many policies?

Labour's professional trolls are out in force on the blogs at the moment, as the media's "narrative" has changed - Brown's honeymoon is over, and the story du-jour now is Comeback Cameron

BTW Where's Gordon? - chewing his fingernails in his bunker now his realsied the Brown Bounce is heading towards a Brown Bottom?

[laurejon]

Immigration will require that NHS becomes privatised. We all know this and can see it happening with hospital closures announced daily.

When New Labour tell us the NHS is safe in their hands, think of London Congestion Charging, London Underground, Council Tax, and remember it will be safe as in their hands means sold off to their cronies companies with a nice directorship promised in the future.

[Guest AuntJess]

So a few weeks ago he was "vacuous" and had no policies - now he's got too many policies?

Labour's professional trolls are out in force on the blogs at the moment, as the media's "narrative" has changed - Brown's honeymoon is over, and the story du-jour now is Comeback Cameron

BTW Where's Gordon? - chewing his fingernails in his bunker now his realsied the Brown Bounce is heading towards a Brown Bottom?

Very good. Best laugh I've had today!

[Guest d23]

So a few weeks ago he was "vacuous" and had no policies - now he's got too many policies?

Labour's professional trolls are out in force on the blogs at the moment, as the media's "narrative" has changed - Brown's honeymoon is over, and the story du-jour now is Comeback Cameron

BTW Where's Gordon? - chewing his fingernails in his bunker now his realsied the Brown Bounce is heading towards a Brown Bottom?

I still think he's vacuous (I'm not even remotely a fan of Brown or a labour troll btw)

His 'tough talk' on immigration amounted to imposing (as yet unclear) limits on the number of people allowed to come to Britain from countries which join the European Union in future and on those from non-EU states.

doesn't address the biggest influx which is from already joined member states or even vaguely address the issue of asylum seekers etc etc, on balance none of his talk seems that tough to me

The Tory party seem in disarray to me, they should be laughing and flying high in the polls against an bloated, complacent and incompetent Labour party yet still (under camerons stewardship) don't look to me like any kind of viable alternative. I don't have any clear idea what either party stands for any more, other than p*ss poor attempts at taking the middle ground and wanting to please everybody

pretty depressing

[Guest AuntJess]

I used to work in a passport check, visa identity and fraud office, there are many ways you can check, they just dont want to do it as its too much red tape. I can spot fake documents a mile off.

One way to check identity fraud passports, is that most of these people have no background, anyone who is established in the uk, has family background, friends, tracks, you can find out easily by picking up a phone. Trust me they know this. There are many tell tale signs. One recommendation that i always thought was a good one was when passports were issued, the passport photos of the person were on a database that customs, police and airport could access the picture immediately. Any suspicious identity fraud activity could be spotted quickly.

For gods sake i had one guys who's passport was made up from two passports and whoever made made the mistake of putting it together forgot the consecutive numbers on the pages and one page was a different number than the rest.

The biggest fraud i have to tell you is Student Visa's. Most of them are working fulltime and not attending colleges, certain cheap companies that use door to door sales for changing contracts for things, ahem hire them by the bucketload, they use them as self employed, therefore no NI to be paid, fake NI numbers, the kid makes money, pays no NI and buggers off. The companies plead no knowledge. They also stay past their visa expiry and never leave.

Youn paint a picture of what I have long since suspected. That Ministers are too busy ploughing their own furrows and rewarding the "party faithful" for their financial support for getting them into power, to get down to brass tacks and organise this country properly. Either disinterest or cluelessness or a bit of both.