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Bearfacts

Major Bank Seeking Voluntary Redundancies

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I know its anecodtal but I think it is significant.

Spoke with my brother last night who works for a major bank in the big shitty ( cant tell you the name - just think of horses ). He's been a contractor there for years. I asked him if his contract was going to be renewed, he said that it was a bit questionable as the bank had let a lot of their contractors go only to replace them with a bunch of Indians ( his words ). He also let slip that the bank was seeking voluntary redundancies.

Sign of things to come ?

Also my neighbour who works for Credit Suisse ? - had big plans to move to Edinburgh for a new job with gauranteed bonus etc etc - put his house up for sale. Has since taken the boards down and decided to stay put - could mean nothing but could be a sign that the job offer dissappeared in a recruiting freeze or worse / better.

Edited by Bearfacts

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I know its anecodtal but I think it is significant.

Spoke with my brother last night who works for a major bank in the big shity ( cant tell you the name - just think of horses ). He's been a contractor there for years. I asked him if his contract was going to be renewed, he said that it was a bit questionable as the bank had let a lot of their contractors go only to replace them with a bunch of Indians ( his words ). He also let slip that the bank was seeking voluntary redundancies.

Sign of things to come ?

too much salmon and honey....I'm toooo full!

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...the bank had let a lot of their contractors go only to replace them with a bunch of Indians ( his words ).

Serious question - did he mean they were offshored to India? This is where the biggest job losses will be. Silent backroom guys, by the thousand, offshored. High paying work which will NEVER return to London.

Also, shall we say 500k call centre jobs which would have gone by now but shareholders were happy to pay the UK costs? In the near future they will not be happy to pay £18k pa when they can do it for £3k pa all in.

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Serious question - did he mean they were offshored to India? This is where the biggest job losses will be. Silent backroom guys, by the thousand, offshored. High paying work which will NEVER return to London.

I know of a company who employed russians on site to do some work. They've been paid and gone - and the work they've done isn't working nor can it easily be redone - starting from scratch is the only thing to do.

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Serious question - did he mean they were offshored to India?

What I have seen is not offshoring per se, but the use of 'landed resources'. Actually offshoring is hard because of the communication difficulties, so what is happening is that the offshoring companies are just sending workers from India to the UK. The workers are contracted in India so they still get paid Indian wages, and they get a little extra to cover accomodation (most I've met just find a room to rent somewhere, we're not talking sumptious corporate rental property here!). IMHO this is far worse than offshoring for UK based workers.

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I know of a company who employed russians on site to do some work. They've been paid and gone - and the work they've done isn't working nor can it easily be redone - starting from scratch is the only thing to do.

:lol: You get what you pay for.

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Guest grumpy-old-man
I know its anecodtal but I think it is significant.

Spoke with my brother last night who works for a major bank in the big shitty ( cant tell you the name - just think of horses ). He's been a contractor there for years. I asked him if his contract was going to be renewed, he said that it was a bit questionable as the bank had let a lot of their contractors go only to replace them with a bunch of Indians ( his words ). He also let slip that the bank was seeking voluntary redundancies.

Sign of things to come ?

Also my neighbour who works for Credit Suisse ? - had big plans to move to Edinburgh for a new job with gauranteed bonus etc etc - put his house up for sale. Has since taken the boards down and decided to stay put - could mean nothing but could be a sign that the job offer dissappeared in a recruiting freeze or worse / better.

Hi Bearfacts,

I would imagine the recent turbulence in the markets has caused a massive shift in confidence as the truth is now out.

It's really just all about sentiment, whatever the asset class. Now the masses will change direction & start selling, only to find out that they are locked in with t's & c's to delay the mass exodus, only to find out that it's then too late & the market has crashed & they lose everything ?

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What I have seen is not offshoring per se, but the use of 'landed resources'. Actually offshoring is hard because of the communication difficulties, so what is happening is that the offshoring companies are just sending workers from India to the UK. The workers are contracted in India so they still get paid Indian wages, and they get a little extra to cover accomodation (most I've met just find a room to rent somewhere, we're not talking sumptious corporate rental property here!). IMHO this is far worse than offshoring for UK based workers.

I've seen this approach quite a lot. Far easier to manage than outsourcing. I have to say that the guys that I worked with on this basis were top notch. I was managing a couple and they did a great job for me. Easily as good as the brits. I was surprised that one was indian, his english accent was very good and culturally he seemed english, more so than a lot of people who have emigrated here from around the world.

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What I have seen is not offshoring per se, but the use of 'landed resources'. Actually offshoring is hard because of the communication difficulties, so what is happening is that the offshoring companies are just sending workers from India to the UK. The workers are contracted in India so they still get paid Indian wages, and they get a little extra to cover accomodation (most I've met just find a room to rent somewhere, we're not talking sumptious corporate rental property here!). IMHO this is far worse than offshoring for UK based workers.

Sounds illegal. They need a work permit to do that sort of thing - and the IND won't give a work permit unless the offered salary is competitive at least.

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Not too sure about offshoring still being a viable proposition imo..

A couple of years ago, there was a review I believe in the industry and most felt that the move of customer services to India was not working.. and what some have started to do is look at other options one being a move to SA.

European accent and closer to home at a similar cost is something which may gather momentum soon.. Carphone warehouse apparantly have an agreement to service some customers by the south africans and I can see this beoming a more viable alternative to india.. maybe IT remains in india or the workers come over here on a fixed wage etc bu I would not be suprised if customer services was to move to sa?

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:lol: You get what you pay for.

Actually you don't. The Public and Private sectors have been ripped off for years now by consultants who come in and instal computer programs at vast expense and then sod off leaving behind chaos.

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What I have seen is not offshoring per se, but the use of 'landed resources'. Actually offshoring is hard because of the communication difficulties, so what is happening is that the offshoring companies are just sending workers from India to the UK. The workers are contracted in India so they still get paid Indian wages, and they get a little extra to cover accomodation (most I've met just find a room to rent somewhere, we're not talking sumptious corporate rental property here!). IMHO this is far worse than offshoring for UK based workers.

Err doesn't that still compromise "equal opportunities" and "racial discrimination" legislation in the UK?

Name and shame I say!

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Sounds illegal. They need a work permit to do that sort of thing - and the IND won't give a work permit unless the offered salary is competitive at least.

Sadly this isn't illegal and is one of the most common ways for Indian IT staff to end up here. Basically the company uses the Inter Company Transfer visa to bring their workforce over. There's some information about it here (bit out of date though).

http://itvoice.wikispaces.com

Basically a company will outsource it's work to India, and then after a few months it will then start to bring staff onshore. After three months a UK worker can no longer bring a case for unfair dismissal anyway ...

Don't get me started on this :angry: - it happened to my department and a whole bunch of people were sacked and replaced by imported workers from India - some of the staff are in India, but many staff are here. Different organisations vary in the mix of onshore/offshore staff, but it's essentially the same scam. And all legal. And the other poster who pointed out that it's not call centre staff but backroom functions (eg. IT) which are going to silently bear the brunt was entirely correct.

And then we have the HSMP (Highly Skilled Migrant Program) visas, which are open to anyone from anywhere to apply for, with minimal checks on things such as qualifications - loads of IT workers from India are here on this basis.

The offshoring/onshoring phenomenon is much more advanced in the US- there are many more websites about the US situation such as this :-

http://www.antioffshore.org

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Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable
Not too sure about offshoring still being a viable proposition imo..

A couple of years ago, there was a review I believe in the industry and most felt that the move of customer services to India was not working.. and what some have started to do is look at other options one being a move to SA.

European accent and closer to home at a similar cost is something which may gather momentum soon.. Carphone warehouse apparantly have an agreement to service some customers by the south africans and I can see this beoming a more viable alternative to india.. maybe IT remains in india or the workers come over here on a fixed wage etc bu I would not be suprised if customer services was to move to sa?

"Ehhhh....awright man......This is Pic in South Africa.....You think you have a problem with your carphone, eh?.....Make it quick, the Rand is devaluing fast....they pay me by the call"

Edited by DissipatedYouthIsValuable

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Serious question - did he mean they were offshored to India? This is where the biggest job losses will be. Silent backroom guys, by the thousand, offshored. High paying work which will NEVER return to London.

Also, shall we say 500k call centre jobs which would have gone by now but shareholders were happy to pay the UK costs? In the near future they will not be happy to pay £18k pa when they can do it for £3k pa all in.

3k for an Indian call centre worker? :lol:

I was on the phone to one yesterday, and I hate using them, i put the phone down on one yesterday because i couldnt understand her and she didn't understand what i was wanting her to do.

Why pay 3k for an Indian when you can pay 0k for an empty seat?

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http://www.personneltoday.com/Articles/200...it-markets.html

Thousands of job cuts expected in UK’s financial sector due to volatile equity and credit markets

24 August 2007 14:52

Thousands of job cuts are expected in the UK's financial sector as a result of the volatile equity and credit markets, economists have warned.

Up to 5,000 positions could be lost, along with annual bonuses in the wake of a turbulent time in London's financial district over recent weeks, according to Jonathan Said, a senior economist at the Centre for Economics and Business Research.

"We are looking at job losses across industries including hedge funds, private equity, investment banks, those working in structured funds," Said told the BBC.

He said losses would be known when the impact of the financial market was revealed. "But roughly, in the next six months, we predict up to 5,000 job cuts across banks, private equity firms, hedge funds, stockbrokers and other financial groups as they try to cut their losses," he added.

Said also forecast a decline in City bonuses by up to 15% in 2007. Last year, bonuses in London's financial centre increased by 18% to a record £8.8bn.

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Serious question - did he mean they were offshored to India? This is where the biggest job losses will be. Silent backroom guys, by the thousand, offshored. High paying work which will NEVER return to London.

Also, shall we say 500k call centre jobs which would have gone by now but shareholders were happy to pay the UK costs? In the near future they will not be happy to pay £18k pa when they can do it for £3k pa all in.

Hi FP ..... the impression I had was that they were actually being brought in .. I will check and let you know .... might be a slight delay though as brother is currently in France on hols.

P.S When can we look forward to hearing your dulcet tones on the box again ? I enjoyed your appearances.

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I've seen this approach quite a lot. Far easier to manage than outsourcing. I have to say that the guys that I worked with on this basis were top notch. I was managing a couple and they did a great job for me. Easily as good as the brits. I was surprised that one was indian, his english accent was very good and culturally he seemed english, more so than a lot of people who have emigrated here from around the world.

.....While working overseas I had one Indian from India say to me 'we British must stick together'....and believe me he sounded a lot more English than myself..... who is Scottish... :o:o:o .. ..his accent was public school...and his cultural tastes perfect.....he liked malt whisky........ :huh::huh::huh:

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