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eric pebble

Times: " - Luxury Riverside Developments Are Taking

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From The Times

August 23, 2007

Those luxury riverside developments are taking on the air of a ghost town

"Fears that City bonuses will be slashed have affected sales of Central London flats in the £1 million bracket.

The disclosure from Knight Frank, one of the capital’s biggest upmarket property agents, comes with a warning that any indication over the coming weeks that investment banks will cut bonuses would cause house price growth in Central London to flatten for the rest of the year. "

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/busi...icle2310516.ece

Edited by eric pebble

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Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable
From The Times

August 23, 2007

Those luxury riverside developments are taking on the air of a ghost town

"Fears that City bonuses will be slashed have affected sales of Central London flats in the £1 million bracket.

The disclosure from Knight Frank, one of the capital’s biggest upmarket property agents, comes with a warning that any indication over the coming weeks that investment banks will cut bonuses would cause house price growth in Central London to flatten for the rest of the year. "

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/busi...icle2310516.ece

A local resident, Piers Lazenby-Smythe, out filming his girlfriend dogging with feral chavs on the dockside for his website 'facefulofmortgagepayments.com' said, "We're currently finding it a bit of stretch, Charlotte's bonus wasn't terribly good this year, was it Charlotte?"

"Mmmmffff!", replied Charlotte.

Edited by DissipatedYouthIsValuable

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A local resident, Piers Lazenby-Smythe, out filming his girlfriend dogging with feral chavs on the dockside for his website 'facefulofmortgagepayments.com' said, "We're currently finding it a bit of stretch, Charlotte's bonus wasn't terribly good this year, was it Charlotte?"

"Mmmmffff!", replied Charlotte.

PMSL :lol:

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Guest KingCharles1st
A local resident, Piers Lazenby-Smythe, out filming his girlfriend dogging with feral chavs on the dockside for his website 'facefulofmortgagepayments.com' said, "We're currently finding it a bit of stretch, Charlotte's bonus wasn't terribly good this year, was it Charlotte?"

"Mmmmffff!", replied Charlotte.

mmmmffff!

CLASSIC - thanks for cheering me up afte 48 hours of rain :lol::lol::lol:

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Up until April of this year I was renting a flat in Kew Riverside, a big development on the Thames where properties sold for between £500k to £4m, mainly to BTL landlords. The rental yield my landlord was getting was little more than 4% and the trend was declining. Towards the end of my tennancy there were imploring letters from the management company begging residents and landlords to pay their service charges, as they were having to lay off staff and restrict services because of the payment backlog.

My landlord said he'd seen this before in a new luxury development he'd previously invested in in Australia. As yields decline and landlords get into difficulties they stop paying service charges, which in turn means the shiny new development starts to look very shabby very quickly, the swimming pool and gym gets shut, the entrance halls and common areas are left uncleaned, the gardens become overgrown etc. This makes letting much more difficult, so effective yields drop further, and so the cycle continues. Because of his previous experience with how badly a downturn affects this type of development my landlord sold up and moved back to Hong Kong, saying it was now impossible to make any money from BTL in the UK.

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Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable
I think the use of the word "now" was indicating new entrants to BTL.

You'll only encourage him. His posts are always obscene.

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A local resident, Piers Lazenby-Smythe, out filming his girlfriend dogging with feral chavs on the dockside for his website 'facefulofmortgagepayments.com' said, "We're currently finding it a bit of stretch, Charlotte's bonus wasn't terribly good this year, was it Charlotte?"

"Mmmmffff!", replied Charlotte.

Haha, brilliant! Cheers for the laff

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A local resident, Piers Lazenby-Smythe, out filming his girlfriend dogging with feral chavs on the dockside for his website 'facefulofmortgagepayments.com' said, "We're currently finding it a bit of stretch, Charlotte's bonus wasn't terribly good this year, was it Charlotte?"

"Mmmmffff!", replied Charlotte.

That brings a whole new meaning to "servicing one's debt"!

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Flatten?

Slip, slide, slashed or hammered?

Flatten is really what David "Mr Realestate" Lereah said would happen in the US when he coined that uniquely optmistic term "soft landing" in relation to what housing markets do after a long and unsupportable boom.

"Flatten" --- that's amusing. :)

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Don't long term outstanding service charge arrears invalidate the lease? Those landlords will have their properties taken from them eventually if they don't pay surely?

Plus with a few CCJs they might not be able to expand their BTL portfolio as much as they'd hoped.

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Don't long term outstanding service charge arrears invalidate the lease? Those landlords will have their properties taken from them eventually if they don't pay surely?

Plus with a few CCJs they might not be able to expand their BTL portfolio as much as they'd hoped.

True, but you get a lot of unwashed windows and chilly swimming pools before you get to CCJ's! But more importantly, many of the new generation BTL landlords are in the "can't pay, won't pay" position.

The distress sellers that forced the 1989-95 crash were repossessed FTB's, the distress sellers that'll kick off the 2008-2014 crash are insolvent BTL landlords.

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True, but you get a lot of unwashed windows and chilly swimming pools before you get to CCJ's! But more importantly, many of the new generation BTL landlords are in the "can't pay, won't pay" position.

The distress sellers that forced the 1989-95 crash were repossessed FTB's, the distress sellers that'll kick off the 2008-2014 crash are insolvent BTL landlords.

True, even if they sell the property out from under the landlord there might not be enough equity left to clear the outstanding service charge debt.

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True, even if they sell the property out from under the landlord there might not be enough equity left to clear the outstanding service charge debt.

so the developers could be as fcuked as the landlords then? MAybe their financial position would be rendered extremely difficult in the event of some kind of reposession proceedings. I imagine the landlords' mortgage companies would have something to say too.

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Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable
so the developers could be as fcuked as the landlords then? MAybe their financial position would be rendered extremely difficult in the event of some kind of reposession proceedings. I imagine the landlords' mortgage companies would have something to say too.

There's going to be a lot of mmmfff! shortly

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so the developers could be as fcuked as the landlords then? MAybe their financial position would be rendered extremely difficult in the event of some kind of reposession proceedings. I imagine the landlords' mortgage companies would have something to say too.

No skin off the developers noses, so long as the final phase of the development has been sold off it's just those left holding the properties that get fvcked.

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No skin off the developers noses, so long as the final phase of the development has been sold off it's just those left holding the properties that get fvcked.

sorry but I disagree, assuming the developers are the people holding the underlying freehold to the infrastructure (they may have sold this on too granted).

in this situation they, too, have invested capital and depend on the ground rent and service charges to give them a yield. No yield, no asset value.

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sorry but I disagree, assuming the developers are the people holding the underlying freehold to the infrastructure (they may have sold this on too granted).

in this situation they, too, have invested capital and depend on the ground rent and service charges to give them a yield. No yield, no asset value.

Forgot about the ground rent, but the leases don't really matter. In 125 years things will have sorted themselves out one way or another, even if it's through a massive crash and 50 years languishing in disrepair before residents who've bought at crash prices take over the running of the block.

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Forgot about the ground rent, but the leases don't really matter. In 125 years things will have sorted themselves out one way or another, even if it's through a massive crash and 50 years languishing in disrepair before residents who've bought at crash prices take over the running of the block.

that's fine, I'll hang on to my property developer equity for 125 years then ;)

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I've just signed up to rent a studio flat here.

I had the choice of a riverside one or a standard housing estate one.

I chose the established housing estate.

It is £100-150/month cheaper than the riverside.

It's got parking for me and my friends

The landlord bought it in 2000 for £23,000 so he's probably not distressed

As for those riverside ones, the places are a ghost town.

You get one parking spot

The rents are higher By up to 50%

And I'd probably have the Bailiffs knocking on the door before I'd unpacked asking if the landlord was about

Really I couldn't afford to rent the smallest studio in the empty riverside development

And there must be loads of people like me.

Simply not earning enough to be able to afford them

Including bills, the studio I've got will cost me about 50% of my anticipated takehome salary

Including bills, the riverside would have been nearer to 70%

There's no benefit I could see in looking at riverside.

The landlords bought "luxury lifestyle".... there aren't enough people in that income bracket to rent them (or buy them)

Edited by ScaredEitherWay

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Towards the end of my tennancy there were imploring letters from the management company begging residents and landlords to pay their service charges, as they were having to lay off staff and restrict services because of the payment backlog.

I suspect what happens is that where BTL flats have been bought by offshore companies it is impossible or too expensive to chase small debts for service charges. If the flats are falling in value the creditors (i.e the mortgage company and the management company) would be fighting over the assets that were worth less than the total debt. If a flat is owned by a company all the creditors can do is foreclose on the company and not chase the ultimate shareholders who may be impossible to find in some jurisdictions.

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