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Guest Charlie The Tramp

Money Down The Drain

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Guest Charlie The Tramp

They just will not let the dog lay. ;)

Major mortgage lenders, including HSBC and Barclays, are unwilling to trust local authority searches contained in the packs put together by sellers.
Not only are they forced by law to spend £500 on an HIP to give to potential buyers of the property they are selling, but they are forced by their mortgage lender to pay a similar amount for a lawyer to carry out searches on the property they want to purchase - a total bill of up to £1,000.
However, several mortgage lenders are making clear they will offer home loans only if searches are carried out by the buyer's solicitor.

A spokesman for HSBC said: "If someone wants to buy a house from someone who has a HIP containing a personal local search, we would tell their solicitor we would not lend to them unless they commissioned their own search."

£500 Home Information Packs are 'worthless'

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Come to think of it, if I was spending £250K of my own money would I trust the seller to tell me everything was hunky dory?

Surely the only way to corrupt the system is to pay the HIP inspector a backhander to falsify the report.

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HIPS are a fine idea but doomed - the legal profession will put endless obstacles in the path of a scheme which might reduce duplication of legal work (IE fees).

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Guest Charlie The Tramp
Surely the only way to corrupt the system is to pay the HIP inspector a backhander to falsify the report.

I`ve learnt one thing in my 37 years dealing with the property market, take what a seller tells you with a pinch of salt. ;)

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I don't see the problem? A HIP contains a few searches and an EPC (energy performance certificate) (legally) and has a HCR (home condition report) with the HCR being optional after intervention from RICS.

Currently, if you want a HIP you have 3 main options to get one

1. Via an Estate Agent

2. Do it yourself and commission the EPC directly with an accredited body

3. Via a solicitor

Points 1 and 3 will, generally, commission these from suppliers or panels as they are called.

All that needs to be done is for people to use 3 or a mixture of 2 and 3 cutting out the EA and ensuring that the "legal" searches are supplied by their / a solicitor.

So a seller will need to arrange with their solicitor for an entire HIP or arrange the "legal" searches with the solicitor and the EPC directly with a relevant accredited body.

No big deal?

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Surely the only way to corrupt the system is to pay the HIP inspector a backhander to falsify the report.

People falsify payslips in order to fraudulently buy houses, why not falsify HIPs to sell them? I expect there will be a web site along any day now :lol:

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The HIP scheme is a valliant but flawed attempt to simplify the home-buying process and I can see it getting scrapped pretty soon after it's launch which will leave the 4000 or so people who have invested in training for it to date high and dry .

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I`ve learnt one thing in my 37 years dealing with the property market, take what a seller tells you with a pinch of salt. ;)

In my inumerable years of housing experience I take what the seller says with a lorry load of salt. ;)

I will only ever rely on my own sourced information. HIPS are a complete waste of time and a tax on sellers.

The energy bit is also useless. Do I care that my dream Edwardian house will get a low rating? Will I be surprised? Will I be allowed to double glaze it in a conservation area? (No, No & No). It may make sense in Euroland where they have few old properties (thanks to British bombs).

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If they had wanted to simplify the (house buying) process, they could have made poeople pay a £1,000 or 1% deposit on acceptance of offer with the vendors matching it. If the sale falls through for any reason, the other party take the deposits.

Simple but doesn't employ HIPpies nor does it collect VAT/income tax.

:)

GG

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You can't blame the solicitors for not trusting the searches from a 3rd party.

Why don't the councils just put on the search forms a "verification code" and the solicitor can then pay £5 and download a .pdf of the search document

direct from the council's website.

JUST TOO EASY ISN'T IT?

Better to do the searches again from scratch, charge the people another £100-£200, employ a dozen more council staff......

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Guest Charlie The Tramp
According to the Daily Mail. Barclays and HSBC, though, say the story is nonsense.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6958111.stm

A spokesman for HSBC said: "If someone wants to buy a house from someone who has a HIP containing a personal local search, we would tell their solicitor we would not lend to them unless they commissioned their own search."

Well it appears that someone from HSBC spoke without the blessing of the top brass. :unsure:

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You can't blame the solicitors for not trusting the searches from a 3rd party.

Why don't the councils just put on the search forms a "verification code" and the solicitor can then pay £5 and download a .pdf of the search document

direct from the council's website.

JUST TOO EASY ISN'T IT?

Better to do the searches again from scratch, charge the people another £100-£200, employ a dozen more council staff......

Because the day after the search was performed on behalf of the sellers solicitor it is out of date. e.g a planning application is approved the day after the sellers information pack to build a factory next door to the property, but this isn't in the downloadable PDF because that was done a day earlier.

I would never trust searches in a HIP. I would always get my solicitor to redo them for me.

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Well it appears that someone from HSBC spoke without the blessing of the top brass. :unsure:

Or a journalist invented a quote so they'd have an interesting story. Because that never happens...

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So a seller will need to arrange with their solicitor for an entire HIP or arrange the "legal" searches with the solicitor and the EPC directly with a relevant accredited body.

No big deal?

I agree. If the HIP is organised by the sellers solicitor I cannot see the buyers solicitor rejecting it or indeed the bank or building society rejecting it for that matter. It would be tantamount to saying that the entire legal profession was corrupted and was routinley supplying dodgy HIPs. Which it plainly would not do! This is just a storm in a tea cup.

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Because the day after the search was performed on behalf of the sellers solicitor it is out of date. e.g a planning application is approved the day after the sellers information pack to build a factory next door to the property, but this isn't in the downloadable PDF because that was done a day earlier.

I would never trust searches in a HIP. I would always get my solicitor to redo them for me.

I wouldn't trust them without my own searches and surveys...but they are useful to see when you're viewing a property. But the best way is to take a trademan in with you when you view a property for the second time....better than any survey.

1. Remove a light switch and look at the wiring, is it harmonised etc

2. Look at the plumbing, look for lead pipes, check condition of the boiler, age of radiators, are there TRV's installed.

3. Have a look in the loft and check the condition of the roof., plus insulation

4. Does the brick work require pointing.

5. Check for damp, have the air bricks been covered up, check areas of fresh paint / papered.

6. Has a chimney breast been removed, if so has the chimney been removed as well...if not it's a bodge (DIY)

7. Double glazed, walls insulatied etc

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I wouldn't trust them without my own searches and surveys...but they are useful to see when you're viewing a property. But the best way is to take a trademan in with you when you view a property for the second time....better than any survey.

1. Remove a light switch and look at the wiring, is it harmonised etc

2. Look at the plumbing, look for lead pipes, check condition of the boiler, age of radiators, are there TRV's installed.

3. Have a look in the loft and check the condition of the roof., plus insulation

4. Does the brick work require pointing.

5. Check for damp, have the air bricks been covered up, check areas of fresh paint / papered.

6. Has a chimney breast been removed, if so has the chimney been removed as well...if not it's a bodge (DIY)

7. Double glazed, walls insulatied etc

A chimney doesnt have to be removed completely so long as it has support correctly installed! Also TRVs are a signed of a shoddy lazy CORGI fitter as they should be able to balance the system without the use of TRVs and it works out more efficient in the long run. Additionally, cavity walls were invented for a reason-reduction of moisture ingress NOT thermal insulation as most people wrongly assume. Filling them is a) toxic initially and B) increases the likelihood of damp as a result.

Edited by stonethecrows

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are you a qualified CS so don't talk about about the construction of houses.

Like a lot of people on here is all my own opinion, but unless it is a fact why bother unless you know what you are

talking about.

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The HIP scheme is a valliant but flawed attempt to simplify the home-buying process and I can see it getting scrapped pretty soon after it's launch...

Agreed.

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are you a qualified CS so don't talk about about the construction of houses.

Like a lot of people on here is all my own opinion, but unless it is a fact why bother unless you know what you are

talking about.

Was this addressed to me Dave? If so then yes Im HIGHLY qualified and what Ive said are facts-the Dubsie dribble spouted above is utter shite frankly. If you want to know about a property's condition then you dont take a 'tradesperson' round as they seldom know little beyond their own field and couldnt give you a decent pathological report not even REMOTELY. If you pay a decent surveyor to give you a full structural survey then you have COMEBACK if they get it wrong in the form of PI-how many 'trades' would give you that on their 'opinion' given that 9 out of 10 unless you are unusually lucky they'll be looking to get a job out of it.

Editted to add that the 'energy rating' element of the HIP is total crud cos you cannot POSSIBLY comment accurately on the energy consumption of a property without a FULL and frank pathological examination of a structure to include all latent defects and to calculate precisely Uvalues and SAP ratings of the building as well as a whole host of other factors which can all make a great deal of difference-areas of cold-bridging, interstitial condensation and damp are to name but a few! You would be surprised at the number of 'trades' who really do not have the first clue about the most fundamental and basic construction principles-I know countless brickies who cant even turn a corner correctly or for that matter even lay a brick the right way up....its shocking but true.

Edited by stonethecrows

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