Record Numbers Leave Uk

[Guest Bart of Darkness]

So did quite a few of the rest of us. The nice thing about being humans - therefore having free will - is to be able to admit you have made a mistake; Although some can't quite ever manage to do that.

I have a friend who voted Labour in 1997.

All right, all right. It was me.

[Guest d23]

So did quite a few of the rest of us. The nice thing about being humans - therefore having free will - is to be able to admit you have made a mistake; Although some can't quite ever manage to do that.

and if Brett saw you getting beaten up he wouldn't step in as you deserved it, havinbg voted labour previously in life.

nice.

[Brett]

more likely is the fact that they are not British and therefore havent been turned into pseudo-american fear conduits.

British people are becoming more and more insular and fearful of each other.

they are becoming more hateful and are retreating behind closed doors.

their traditional social conservatism has reached new heights of paranoia and stranger-danger credulity all pumped up by the strident tones

of the media.

Nice. Have you ever considered writing a novel?!

I would give people more credit than that.

If you look at one of my earlier posts, I gave a rundown on who is coming to the UK and how that affects the typical middle or working class Englishman. Unless you are in a very high-powered job, people feel they can come to the UK and disrespect you casually and without consequence in your own country.

That's not down to Sky News or the BBC, it's about your working day and how people relate to each other in the real world.

I don't want to go to war with Iran, or anybody else. I'm not paranoid about terrorism either. I don't believe in CCTV or ID cards. I just want people to get on with each other. But unfortunately, I've realised that other demographics of people don't play fair in this way. Maybe they are envious of good things and so want to destroy them? Who knows, you'll have to ask them.

So tell me how I am supposed to be one of these 'pseudo-Americans' you speak of?!

Edited August 22, 2007 by Brett

[Brett]

You may have not made the original comment, but when I responded to it you jumped to it's defense.

No, that was your interpretation of what I said.

You implied that German women didn't like Englishmen because they were 'bigoted'. I simply pointed out that I disagree with that.

No hatred. No criticisms. Just pointing out that a lot of German women do like Englishman.

[jimmyjazz]

Nice. Have you ever considered writing a novel?!

I would give people more credit than that.

If you look at one of my earlier posts, I gave a rundown on who is coming to the UK and how that affects the typical middle or working class Englishman. Unless you are in a very high-powered job, people feel they can come to the UK and disrespect you casually and without consequence in your own country.

That's not down to Sky News or the BBC, it's about your working day and how people relate to each other in the real world.

I don't want to go to war with Iran, or anybody else. I'm not paranoid about terrorism either. I don't believe in CCTV or ID cards. I just want people to get on with each other. But unfortunately, I've realised that other demographics of people don't play fair in this way. Maybe they are envious of good things and so want to destroy them? Who knows, you'll have to ask them.

So tell me how I am supposed to be one of these 'pseudo-Americans' you speak of?!

we all see things differently i suppose.

I get a far better vibe from foreigners than I do from native Brits,

thats because like them I am pretty poor.

I was reading something the other night by Immanuel Wallerstein and he talked about the way people were treated after the French Revolution.

the idea introduced was the one of an ACTIVE CITIZEN or STAKEHOLDER.

the ACTIVE CITIZEN was allowed to get involved in politics providing he had enough property,

everyone else without property was a PASSIVE CITIZEN who could not engage in politics and had to suffer the laws made by the ACTIVE CITIZENS.

I am very much a PASSIVE CITIZEN and so are most immigrants which is why I can empathise with them better than the ACTIVE CITIZENS,

where I come from the ACTIVE CITIZENS are many and they are insufferably snobbish about their exalted status over us mere PASSIVE CITIZENS.

The ACTIVE CITIZENS are concerned above all else with protecting the value of their property.

Anything which they see as a threat to their property and way of life in general they react angrily against.

This has made them perfect conduits for the fear campaigns deliberately orchestrated by government and media.

The newspaper industry are desperate to sell more copy and have discovered that an agenda of fear, titillation , sabre-rattling and xenophobia has helped them reverse the trend of falling newspaper sales.,

THe media agenda has been imported lock stock and barrel from the US.

This agenda is also a useful one for the government as it seeks to frighten people into accepting a fraction of the civil liberties they have traditionally been accustomed to ,.

The UK is a fear factory and it is that which is making the place insufferable to live in for millions of people.

Edited August 22, 2007 by jimmyjazz

[Guest AuntJess]

that is different, if i where transport minister

i would not increase any roads or

railways

instead i would "hope" technology addresses these problems. I don't give a shit about the so called "green land" i just wouldn't want to spend money on something that we may not need.

self drive cars should be around in 10 years time (my guestimate), which will make much better use of the roads we have. similar situation with trains.

I would.

We could try opening up some of the lines that Dr.Beecham closed down in the 1960's. just another ministerial sweeping slash, across easy transport and 1000's of jobs. More than 2100 stations were closed ( rural of course. who gives a toss if the 'peasants' can't easily get to work.) and 9000 miles of track.

He should have been shot as a traitor.

Edited August 22, 2007 by AuntJess

[Guest Charlie The Tramp]

I would.

We could try opening up some of the lines that Dr.Beecham closed down in the 1960's. just another ministerial sweeping slash, across easy transport and 1000's of jobs. More than 2100 stations were closed ( rural of course. who gives a toss if the 'peasants' can't easily get to work.) and 9000 miles of track.

He should have been shot as a traitor.

What a surprise after he closed all those lines down, it was the beginning of the massive increase in juggernauts on our roads as the private hauliers made hay, strange how the railways were criticised in the 60s as being inefficient by the private haulage industry.

[@contradevian]

I live between Dubai, Mallorca, Uk and Canada to maintain my non tax status. Currently I am in Dubai.

I live between Canning Town and Poplar to maintain mine

[Brett]

I would.

We could try opening up some of the lines that Dr.Beecham closed down in the 1960's. just another ministerial sweeping slash, across easy transport and 1000's of jobs. More than 2100 stations were closed ( rural of course. who gives a toss if the 'peasants' can't easily get to work.) and 9000 miles of track.

He should have been shot as a traitor.

Okay, so a minor political decision about underused railways, and somebody should be shot - this coming from somebody who thinks rampant race mixing should be enforced as a matter of routine by the state. What strange values you have. I'm perplexed.

As for your other points...Yes, you are human and we all make mistakes - but it would be nice to see more people striving to be the best they can. Anybody who voted Labour at the last election has blood on their hands, as far as I'm concerned. I wasn't talking about 1997, because those were different times and nobody could have foreseen exactly what would happen. But to sanction it after the fact is just unforgiveable.

Jimmy, you probably get a better vibe from foreigners because they don't feel under pressure to defend anything, as you say. I too feel disenfranchised. I don't own a house either.

My experiences are different. I'm not sure why people would want to come to the UK. South Africans do it for economic reasons, they don't really seem to like us. Young Australians try to bring their super-liberal values with them, and it's so frustrating to have people like that reinforcing the PC brigade, when they have no long-term loyalty to the country.

Despite going to a bog standard comprehensive, I speak with a fairly posh accent, so all the scum feel this need to bring me down a rung before they've even got to know me, no matter how polite or friendly I am.

Yes, I am disillusioned with that. Nothing to do with BBC News 24 or Sky. I don't want war with Iran, ID cards, etc etc...But I can't ignore what is happening right in front of me.

[Guest d23]

Okay, so a minor political decision about underused railways, and somebody should be shot - this coming from somebody who thinks rampant race mixing should be enforced as a matter of routine by the state. What strange values you have. I'm perplexed.

As for your other points...Yes, you are human and we all make mistakes - but it would be nice to see more people striving to be the best they can. Anybody who voted Labour at the last election has blood on their hands, as far as I'm concerned. I wasn't talking about 1997, because those were different times and nobody could have foreseen exactly what would happen. But to sanction it after the fact is just unforgiveable.

Jimmy, you probably get a better vibe from foreigners because they don't feel under pressure to defend anything, as you say. I too feel disenfranchised. I don't own a house either.

My experiences are different. I'm not sure why people would want to come to the UK. South Africans do it for economic reasons, they don't really seem to like us. Young Australians try to bring their super-liberal values with them, and it's so frustrating to have people like that reinforcing the PC brigade, when they have no long-term loyalty to the country.

Despite going to a bog standard comprehensive, I speak with a fairly posh accent, so all the scum feel this need to bring me down a rung before they've even got to know me, no matter how polite or friendly I am.

Yes, I am disillusioned with that. Nothing to do with BBC News 24 or Sky. I don't want war with Iran, ID cards, etc etc...But I can't ignore what is happening right in front of me.

this coming from somebody who thinks rampant race mixing should be enforced as a matter of routine by the state. What strange values you have. I'm perplexed.

thats absolute straw man bolloc*s but I'll let Aunt Jess (not exactly the most liberal leftie on this forum) set you straight on that

South Africans do it for economic reasons, they don't really seem to like us.

not sure where you get that from tbh; nearly all the SA's I've met in my time in London have been super sociable friendly people; most seem to have that southern hemisphere outgoing vibe about them but I understand that I haven't met that many so I'll leave the sweeping generalisations to you

Young Australians try to bring their super-liberal values with them, and it's so frustrating to have people like that reinforcing the PC brigade, when they have no long-term loyalty to the country.

I'm married to an Australian and so spend a large amount of my time in the company of Ozzie Ex Pats, and I can guarantee you they're not in any way PC; a lot of them moan about how leftie this country is compared to back home.

Despite going to a bog standard comprehensive, I speak with a fairly posh accent, so all the scum feel this need to bring me down a rung before they've even got to know me, no matter how polite or friendly I am.

Have you considered that it may not be your accent; maybe you're just not that adept socially or are just a touch unlikeable?

[jimmylad]

I exchange contracts on Friday & move on the 5th Sep to cyprus. Will be living off the interest from my house for a couple of years at least & then re-asess

Can't wait

[Ethel]

You implied that German women didn't like Englishmen because they were 'bigoted'. I simply pointed out that I disagree with that.

No, actually I was implying that British women were "prudish and snobby" because of the way they are treated by British men.

I couldn't give a stuff what German women think of British men, they can have as many of them as they like... they're welcome to them.

all the scum feel this need to bring me down a rung before they've even got to know me, no matter how polite or friendly I am.

Ok, but perhaps calling them scum may not help if you're trying to get along.

Edited August 22, 2007 by Ethel

[Flat Bear]

There will be fewer and fewer places for people to run away to. At some stage people will have to stand up and fight for their beliefs/way of life or allow others to take them over.

No one feels any sympathy for those that try and run away. There is no utopia for scared brits and once they start fleeing they will be doing so for the rest of their lives.

[Guest d23]

There are parallels to be drawn with the Jews leaving Germany in the 30's and with the current 'white flight' exodus occurring now.

no there isn't

what a cretinous statement

[RedMercury]

I have just been approved an O1 visa to work in San Francisco. The embassy appointment to get the visa is fast approaching, and my wife and I will probably be out there within the next two months. Some may see it as out of the frying pan and into the fire, bearing in mind the volatility in economy that America is currently undergoing, but the way that I see it is that it's no worse than south-east England. Anyway, its good to work abroad while we haven't got kids, and I can only hope that house prices return to normality by the time we return (maybe in a couple of years). At least in the coming armageddon that some people here subscribe to I'll have access to firearms

I can't fault the immigrants to the UK really, because I'll be the American equivalent in a couple of months. Everyone has a right to improve their lot in life.

Edited August 22, 2007 by RedMercury

[Guest AuntJess]

Okay, so a minor political decision about underused railways, and somebody should be shot - this coming from somebody who thinks rampant race mixing should be enforced as a matter of routine by the state. What strange values you have. I'm perplexed.

As for your other points...Yes, you are human and we all make mistakes - but it would be nice to see more people striving to be the best they can. Anybody who voted Labour at the last election has blood on their hands, as far as I'm concerned. I wasn't talking about 1997, because those were different times and nobody could have foreseen exactly what would happen. But to sanction it after the fact is just unforgiveable.

Jimmy, you probably get a better vibe from foreigners because they don't feel under pressure to defend anything, as you say. I too feel disenfranchised. I don't own a house either.

My experiences are different. I'm not sure why people would want to come to the UK. South Africans do it for economic reasons, they don't really seem to like us. Young Australians try to bring their super-liberal values with them, and it's so frustrating to have people like that reinforcing the PC brigade, when they have no long-term loyalty to the country.

Despite going to a bog standard comprehensive, I speak with a fairly posh accent, so all the scum feel this need to bring me down a rung before they've even got to know me, no matter how polite or friendly I am.

Yes, I am disillusioned with that. Nothing to do with BBC News 24 or Sky. I don't want war with Iran, ID cards, etc etc...But I can't ignore what is happening right in front of me.

Errrr, has the medication not kicked in yet? You seem to be getting those knickers in a twist about sweet F- all. Rampant race mixing? Are you crazy? I think that mixing populations and not inbreeding is good and I don't think race mixing is BAD... that is not to say I think it is compulsory. You show signs of black and white thinking. You are doing your own head in with all this stuff swirling round inside.

Take a few deep breaths, go a walk and for God's sake get rid of your chip.

You are going to have to learn not to read TOO literally into what everyone says. You take things FAR too seriously.

BTW closing the railways was not IMO a " minor decision" it has had FAR reaching effects.

Edited August 22, 2007 by AuntJess

[Brett]

Errrr, has the medication not kicked in yet? You seem to be getting those knickers in a twist about sweet F- all. Rampant race mixing? Are you crazy? I think that mixing populations and not inbreeding is good and I don't think race mixing is BAD... that is not to say I think it is compulsory. You show signs of black and white thinking. You are doing your own head in with all this stuff swirling round inside.

Take a few deep breaths, go a walk and for God's sake get rid of your chip.

You are going to have to learn not to read TOO literally into what everyone says. You take things FAR too seriously.

BTW closing the railways was not IMO a " minor decision" it has had FAR reaching effects.

You don't get it do you?

You have admitted several times that you are more worried about some railways being shut down than you are about race mixing and the 'melting pot.' Your views invite ridicule.

Which of us needs medication is a matter of opinion.

[Guest AuntJess]

I don't intend to "get it", you are right. I don't intend to swap words with someone who just seems to want to get up people's noses and/or wilfully misunderstand them, for your own reasons.

You have a chip IMO. You feel resentful about people you call "scum" who try to take you down a peg, yet you rush to take a rise out of people on here. Don't try to take it out on the rest of us 'cos you are smarting.

Edited August 22, 2007 by AuntJess

[Krackersdave]

Can we get this conversation back to the forced race mixing theme?

Wanna know where I can sign up for that!

[R K]

Jesus what a sad and depressing thread!

I like lots of different parts of the UK, love living in the North-West, have never had any bother with teenagers at all, have two of my own, "chavs" (ludicrously over-worked tag) or otherwise, hoodies seem perfectly sensible clothing.

Just about the only place in the country I would not like to live is anywhere within the M25. I am dumbfounded that anyone with say £300k plus equity in their house in London hasn't already left to live just about anywhere else, in the UK or elsewhere.

I don't agree at all with the statement that most of the people leaving the UK are educated. Alot of educated/qualified people leave on 2 yr temp-work stints and then return. Many of the permanent emigrants I am rather pleased to see leave to be honest. Australia or Benidorm or wherever is welcome to them.

The only thing I would change demographically is have much tighter, enforced immigration controls, especially for non-Europeans. I would also rollback EU immigration laws to constrain people coming via the EU.

I can't see how today's youngsters are really much different to mods and rockers or skinheads or punks of other generations. It is up to the government to ensure that these kids are given much better education and economic prospects. Far more important to this country's future than encouraging foreign bankers, oil billionaires, Thai "businessmen" and other assorted scamsters and criminals bringing their mostly ill-gotten gains to launder here.

I like the idea of perhaps moving in retirement to maybe the French Alps or perhaps Austria/Switzerland, but whether I will or not remains to be seen. The only place I have ever been mugged/carjacked was not in the UK, it was in the South of France.

England is still a far more pleasant country to live in that most I can think of or have visited and as we all know if you have a decent roof over your head and a meal in your stomach each night you're better off than most of the world's population. So stop effing moaning and be grateful for what you've got you miserable bunch of fascistas.

Edited August 22, 2007 by Red Kharma

[dubsie]

Yearly population growth of 350k in a country that struggles to build 200K new homes (50%+ flats) and refuses to build on 'green' land doesn't make for a very pretty future here in the UK.

And then there's the fact that we aren't building anymore new roads, or putting down anymore railway track.

We'll be hanging off the sides of train carriages in 10 years time like they have to in India....

My view also, the UK is getting far too crowded the population needs to fall below 60 million in my opinion. Part of our culture is to live in a house with a garden, we're famous across the globe for our gardens. So why are we builing so many flats, fine when your young and single but useless for families. The things that make us British are simply being stripped and are culture will soon be lost

The infrastructure that supports us is also starting to fail and we're simply running out of space to build new roads. Some railways simply have no more capacity to run more trains during peak times forcing many businesses to stagger starting and finishing times.

We also work far harder than and get fewer rewards than our fellow Europeans. We have no employment security and when we retire the state removes assets to pay for our care.

Who could blame people for leaving, it's hardly a relaxing place to live.

[Spoony]

As for the relevant merits of the UK compared to other countries, its probably one of the best western countries to live in if you are doing OK and one of the worst if you are not.

I disagree its the opposite. I think the UK is the best place in Europe to be if you are not doing ok, because we have such an over-generous 'welfare state' - a system that is easy to fiddle and play. We have made it too easy for people to sit on their backsides and sponge off the taxpayer. We have a government that encourages single parent families through benefits and tax breaks that make couples financially better off if they live apart. This family breakdown encourages the bringing up of young thugs and other social problems that are the root cause of gang/knife/gun/violent/thuggish/ASBO culture yobbery that we face in the UK today.

The decent, law abiding, tax paying married family man or woman is worse off in the UK. Now these people would be better off abroad in a country that rewards them for their hard work. America have the right idea. No welfare state much to speak of and lower taxes for workers. Sink or swim, get a job - no safety net, great motivation to make a success of yourself instead of sponging for a living. The UK should do the same thing.

The state of this country depresses me. Its a cliche but it really is going down the pan. With the common violent crime, loss of law and order and the inibility of the judicial system to lock up criminals for any length of time (if at all) it is getting worse. Thats of course if the police manage to put down their paperwork or speed traps for long enough to actually do real work to catch the thugs in the first place. The yobs know this, they laugh in the face of justice, as they have more human rights than victims in the Uk today.

No wonder people are leaving.

Edited August 22, 2007 by Spoony

[Guest vicmac64]

Jesus what a sad and depressing thread!

I like lots of different parts of the UK, love living in the North-West, have never had any bother with teenagers at all, have two of my own, "chavs" (ludicrously over-worked tag) or otherwise, hoodies seem perfectly sensible clothing.

Just about the only place in the country I would not like to live is anywhere within the M25. I am dumbfounded that anyone with say £300k plus equity in their house in London hasn't already left to live just about anywhere else, in the UK or elsewhere.

I don't agree at all with the statement that most of the people leaving the UK are educated. Alot of educated/qualified people leave on 2 yr temp-work stints and then return. Many of the permanent emigrants I am rather pleased to see leave to be honest. Australia or Benidorm or wherever is welcome to them.

The only thing I would change demographically is have much tighter, enforced immigration controls, especially for non-Europeans. I would also rollback EU immigration laws to constrain people coming via the EU.

I can't see how today's youngsters are really much different to mods and rockers or skinheads or punks of other generations. It is up to the government to ensure that these kids are given much better education and economic prospects. Far more important to this country's future than encouraging foreign bankers, oil billionaires, Thai "businessmen" and other assorted scamsters and criminals bringing their mostly ill-gotten gains to launder here.

I like the idea of perhaps moving in retirement to maybe the French Alps or perhaps Austria/Switzerland, but whether I will or not remains to be seen. The only place I have ever been mugged/carjacked was not in the UK, it was in the South of France.

England is still a far more pleasant country to live in that most I can think of or have visited and as we all know if you have a decent roof over your head and a meal in your stomach each night you're better off than most of the world's population. So stop effing moaning and be grateful for what you've got you miserable bunch of fascistas.

Yeah but at the current rate of immigration we are rapidly becoming the 'rest of the world' - strangers in our own country

[whiterabbit]

England is still a far more pleasant country to live in that most I can think of or have visited and as we all know if you have a decent roof over your head and a meal in your stomach each night you're better off than most of the world's population. So stop effing moaning and be grateful for what you've got you miserable bunch of fascistas.

Your comments show your ignorance and how little you have seen. Maybe if you have only travelled to India or Africa or maybe Eastern Europe you may feel we still live well here but if you are an educated person you will soon see you have better opportunites abroad in places such as US, AUS, NZ or lots of Europe. You sound like a Labour MP telling us how good it is here and compairing us to 3rd world countries rather than similar 1st world countries.

Fact is in the UK you need to earn a very high salary or inherit a house otherwise you and you family will live like crap. An average consultant in my company can afford a decent house and schools for their kids everywhere but the UK and this is why they all want to leave.

My multinational company right now has over 60 people from the SE on a waiting list looking to leave yet the only people looking to move here are from basically 3rd world countries looking to live 10 to a house save up some money and leave. These people looking to leave are all people already earning 55k plus in the UK!

As another poster said if you are stinking rich the UK is good. If you are a benefit scrounger or an aslyum seeker it is great but if you are a hard working middle class person its time to leave........

Edited August 23, 2007 by whiterabbit

[Mr Yogi]

Jesus what a sad and depressing thread!

I like lots of different parts of the UK, love living in the North-West, have never had any bother with teenagers at all, have two of my own, "chavs" (ludicrously over-worked tag) or otherwise, hoodies seem perfectly sensible clothing.

Just about the only place in the country I would not like to live is anywhere within the M25. I am dumbfounded that anyone with say £300k plus equity in their house in London hasn't already left to live just about anywhere else, in the UK or elsewhere.

I don't agree at all with the statement that most of the people leaving the UK are educated. Alot of educated/qualified people leave on 2 yr temp-work stints and then return. Many of the permanent emigrants I am rather pleased to see leave to be honest. Australia or Benidorm or wherever is welcome to them.

The only thing I would change demographically is have much tighter, enforced immigration controls, especially for non-Europeans. I would also rollback EU immigration laws to constrain people coming via the EU.

I can't see how today's youngsters are really much different to mods and rockers or skinheads or punks of other generations. It is up to the government to ensure that these kids are given much better education and economic prospects. Far more important to this country's future than encouraging foreign bankers, oil billionaires, Thai "businessmen" and other assorted scamsters and criminals bringing their mostly ill-gotten gains to launder here.

England is still a far more pleasant country to live in that most I can think of or have visited and as we all know if you have a decent roof over your head and a meal in your stomach each night you're better off than most of the world's population. So stop effing moaning and be grateful for what you've got you miserable bunch of fascistas.

Just about sums up what I was going to say.

Like everyone else I've got my gripes but fundementally I don't think there's a better place in the world. I supect that most people who want to emigrate are the type who will never be happy whatever their circumstances.

I agree with what you say about London, though. Great place to visit, but I couldn't live there!