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eric pebble

Slamming The Barn Door Long After The Horse Has Bolted:

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UK warning on sub-prime mortgages

The Financial Services Authority (FSA) is to take action against five brokers that sell sub-prime mortgages.

Following a review of the market, it said some mortgage lenders and brokers offer loans to people who should not be given them.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6268754.stm

And this today -

"Other banks have also suspended funds with sub-prime investments.

"The complete evaporation of liquidity in certain market segments of the US securitization market has made it impossible to value certain assets fairly regardless of their quality or credit rating,"' BNP Paribas said in the statement. Defaults on the loans, which are aimed at those on low incomes or with a poor credit rating, have risen as interest rates charged on the loans have risen. "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6938425.stm

Edited by eric pebble

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UK warning on sub-prime mortgages

The Financial Services Authority (FSA) is to take action against five brokers that sell sub-prime mortgages.

Following a review of the market, it said some mortgage lenders and brokers offer loans to people who should not be given them.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6268754.stm

And this today -

"Other banks have also suspended funds with sub-prime investments.

"The complete evaporation of liquidity in certain market segments of the US securitization market has made it impossible to value certain assets fairly regardless of their quality or credit rating,"' BNP Paribas said in the statement. Defaults on the loans, which are aimed at those on low incomes or with a poor credit rating, have risen as interest rates charged on the loans have risen. "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6938425.stm

.....I like the words from the FSA "some mortgage lenders and brokers offer loans to people who should not be given them".......this must be the understatement of the year.....do they not see it is rigging the market......?...penalties should be heavy... :ph34r::ph34r::ph34r:

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I am no expert.

But I think I know the point when sub-prime became endemic in the UK. It was when virtually every lender changed their tried and tested rules of 3.5 x Salary. And then introduced 'affordability calculators'. Which in essence are an invitation to get more money than you can really afford to pay back.

Three years ago sounds about right.

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I am no expert.

But I think I know the point when sub-prime became endemic in the UK. It was when virtually every lender changed their tried and tested rules of 3.5 x Salary. And then introduced 'affordability calculators'. Which in essence are an invitation to get more money than you can really afford to pay back.

Three years ago sounds about right.

........was that not about the time it happened here......?.... :o:o:o

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A bit like this unfortunate guy:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_64...storyid=6496089

Let's hope that some of these mortgage brokers end up in jail.

Totally agree. I made a point in an earlier thread that the mis-selling of certain types of mortgages may become a major issue [much as it did with 'endowment' mortgages] as the number of court judgements and repo's escalate.

As they surely will...

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Guest vicmac64
.....I like the words from the FSA "some mortgage lenders and brokers offer loans to people who should not be given them".......this must be the understatement of the year.....do they not see it is rigging the market......?...penalties should be heavy... :ph34r::ph34r::ph34r:

Penalties should be equivalent to the crime... if deliberate theft and fraud has ocurred then it should be very very severe... PersonalAssets should be seized!!!

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Penalties should be equivalent to the crime... if deliberate theft and fraud has ocurred then it should be very very severe... PersonalAssets should be seized!!!

.....agreed ....it's a few hundred years since the South Sea bubble.....therefore it's time we started making examples of these rigged markets due to fraud .....help prevention in the future.... :ph34r::ph34r::ph34r:

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Guest Bart of Darkness

More a case of shutting the stable door after the horse has long since died of old age, the stable itself has been razed to the ground to provide building space for "luxury" apartments the the horse's owner has retired to Spain on the proceeds.

Being attacked by Geoffrey Howe was likened to being savaged by a dead sheep. Did he go to work for the FSA?

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I am no expert.

But I think I know the point when sub-prime became endemic in the UK. It was when virtually every lender changed their tried and tested rules of 3.5 x Salary. And then introduced 'affordability calculators'. Which in essence are an invitation to get more money than you can really afford to pay back.

Three years ago sounds about right.

Welcome to HPC - yes I reckon you're dead-on there.

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The mortgage market has been exposed quite a few times, very publicly and in detail over the years, very publicly and broadcast on UK TV.

If there is still a problem, then the FSA are responsible.

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Guest KingCharles1st

I agree with the above comments- and also- ALL lenders should collectively have to pay fortunes into a fund that is used to pay for all the court cases- the millions that will swallow up- bastards

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I am no expert.

But I think I know the point when sub-prime became endemic in the UK. It was when virtually every lender changed their tried and tested rules of 3.5 x Salary. And then introduced 'affordability calculators'. Which in essence are an invitation to get more money than you can really afford to pay back.

Three years ago sounds about right.

About right ccc --- maybe a little earlier. As I have said many times - and will CONTINUE to do so - so that people out there are INFORMED -

Around 2001/2/3 the endemic, enormous levels of systematic mortgage fraud started to take place everywhere here in the UK...

I reckon this was and is the KEY behind the stupid, illogical and insane house prices we now have. When I watched that Money Programme documentary on MORTGAGE FRAUD (see below), I just KNEW that this was the high octane fuel driving the engine of the World's Greatest Ever Pyramid Selling Scam – the co-called “Housing Market”.

If you think that in every street, in every village, in every town, city etc etc. right across that UK, [and also in the USA and elsewhere too- exported courtesy of the British Scammers - the UK Property Business] buyers were and are being URGED by the EAs and Lenders to PRETEND they earn £55k - not £30k – [or similar – i.e. double their salary on paper] and stick this down nonchalantly on their Mortgage Application Forms - then this would ultimately lead to TOTAL DISASTER. See Links below for clear example of evidence for this.

And in the lead up to that disaster - millions of people would be sucked into the Pyramid Selling Scam - and blackmailed/forced to pay WAY OVER THE REAL PRICE for their homes. i.e. what WOULD HAVE BEEN THE PRICE IF THE LENDERS etc HAD NOT ACTIVELY ENCOURAGED THE FRAUD - which was the case ALL OVER THE UK...... This TOTALLY explains the 300%+ “rises” in property “value” IHMO.

How many of us DON'T KNOW people who were persuaded to LIE ABOUT THEIR INCOME on their Mortgage Application? We all know scores of people….

And so - as this all unfolded - BILLIONS AND BILLIONNS/TRILLIONS of £'s was "added" to the cost of homes - and SUCKED INTO the coffers of the Lenders and EAs and builders - and the DEBT was cut into pieces by the Lenders who thereby unloaded their risk – and puff – the risk has been parcelled out all over the Globe....

THIS PROCESS HAPPENED IN THE USA ALSO – and we are now watching it all unravel. However, WE ARE DELUSIONAL HERE IN THE UK IF WE THINK THAT THIS WAS ONLY HAPENING in the USA!!!

THIS stuff – BELOW – explains it all SO WELL: The World has been duped into playing a deadly game of Pyramid Selling – and it's all BUILT ON SAND.

Homes – and the mortgages secured on them - have been the pawns used in this deeply dishonest and ultimately catastrophic game.

Mortgage customers 'urged to lie'

Housebuyers are being encouraged to break the law in order to obtain huge mortgages, the BBC has discovered.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3222053.stm - click "Watch and listen" at top right - and see how it's been going on in EAs/lenders' offices accross the UK for years and years.....

Good summary here http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressrele..._mortgage.shtml

Edited by eric pebble

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........was that not about the time it happened here......?.... :o:o:o

Yes! This is the key to HPI. It's that simple.

What's weird is that they're saying there is little or no "sub-prime" here in the UK -- but - you only have to scratch the surface of a so-called "normal" mortgage - and it quickly becomes apparent that it's definitely sub-prime!! I mean-- multiples of 8, 9, 10, 11 are the "norm" now!!! And when you factor in the fact that innevitably the figure that's been put into the "Earnings" box is TOTAL BULLSH%T - then you start to think....... Er....... ummmmmm... HELP THIS IS TOXIC DEBT!!!!!!!!

QUICK QUESTIONAIRE: -- HOW MANY PEOPLE

A - Have been gently persuaded to lie about their incomes on Mortgage Applications in the last few years?

B - Know of people who have..... shall we say.... exagerated their incomes?

C - Have/know of people who have put down outright boll@cks as their "income"?

Edited by eric pebble

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Yes! This is the key to HPI. It's that simple.

What's weird is that they're saying there is little or no "sub-prime" here in the UK -- but - you only have to scratch the surface of a so-called "normal" mortgage - and it quickly becomes apparent that it's definitely sub-prime!! I mean-- multiples of 8, 9, 10, 11 are the "norm" now!!! And when you factor in the fact that innevitably the figure that's been put into the "Earnings" box is TOTAL BULLSH%T - then you start to think....... Er....... ummmmmm... HELP THIS IS TOXIC DEBT!!!!!!!!

QUICK QUESTIONAIRE: -- HOW MANY PEOPLE

A - Have been gently persuaded to lie about their incomes on Mortgage Applications in the last few years?

B - Know of people who have..... shall we say.... exagerated their incomes?

C - Have/know of people who have put down outright boll@cks as their "income"?

Like scratching the surface..... http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:rQFm7...lient=firefox-a

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The mortgage market has been exposed quite a few times, very publicly and in detail over the years, very publicly and broadcast on UK TV.

If there is still a problem, then the FSA are responsible.

Incredible - I know...

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I am no expert.

But I think I know the point when sub-prime became endemic in the UK. It was when virtually every lender changed their tried and tested rules of 3.5 x Salary. And then introduced 'affordability calculators'. Which in essence are an invitation to get more money than you can really afford to pay back.

Three years ago sounds about right.

...Erm,but auntie Beeb told us we don't have sub-prime in june......why the change of heart?

of course,it's only very limited,because Auntie said so in July.

Edited by oracle

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...Erm,but auntie Beeb told us we don't have sub-prime in june......why the change of heart?

of course,it's only very limited,because Auntie said so in July.

I know oracle!!! -- It's a TOTAL FARCE. Pathetic. AND - the BBC Money Programme actually uncovered serious fraud in 9 out of 10 EAs in Acton ALONE!!!! [All that time ago in 2003!]

SUB-PRIME IN THE UK...

"Mortgage customers 'urged to lie'

Housebuyers are being encouraged to break the law in order to obtain huge mortgages, the BBC has discovered."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3222053.stm

Click on the "Watch and Listen" video by Jenny Scott (top right). Sobering stuff. Just weird how the BBC have NEVER followed all this up........ Orders from above -- NuLabour p'raps?....

Good Summary here --- http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressrele..._mortgage.shtml --- WHY WASN'T THIS FOLLOWED UP??? Anyone know?? I can't get a squeak out of The Money Programme!!! .........

Edited by eric pebble

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I know oracle!!! -- It's a TOTAL FARCE. Pathetic. AND - the BBC Money Programme actually uncovered serious fraud in 9 out of 10 EAs in Acton ALONE!!!! [All that time ago in 2003!]

SUB-PRIME IN THE UK...

"Mortgage customers 'urged to lie'

Housebuyers are being encouraged to break the law in order to obtain huge mortgages, the BBC has discovered."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3222053.stm

Click on the "Watch and Listen" video by Jenny Scott (top right). Sobering stuff. Just weird how the BBC have NEVER followed all this up........ Orders from above -- NuLabour p'raps?....

Good Summary here --- http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressrele..._mortgage.shtml --- WHY WASN'T THIS FOLLOWED UP??? Anyone know?? I can't get a squeak out of The Money Programme!!! .........

Nice one Eric. Very interesting report.

Perhaps the BBC should run it again to remind those who went along with the fraudulent recommendations of the money lenders and now have pending court cases/repo's against them, just how foolish they have been? Should they need any reminding...

It is probable that the money lenders themselves will unfortunately, never face justice such has been the scale of deception.

The best we can hope for them is that they 'pay their dues' as the 'credit crunch' and HP deflation take their toll...

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Nice one Eric. Very interesting report.

Perhaps the BBC should run it again to remind those who went along with the fraudulent recommendations of the money lenders and now have pending court cases/repo's against them, just how foolish they have been? Should they need any reminding...

It is probable that the money lenders themselves will unfortunately, never face justice such has been the scale of deception.

The best we can hope for them is that they 'pay their dues' as the 'credit crunch' and HP deflation take their toll...

Thanks Tucksy: I think Mortgage Fraud is the biggest Elephant in the Room there has ever been.......... It is MASSIVE. Weird how lots of people don't seem to see it!

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It's the general public who are lying, the morgage lenders will just say "we followed the rules - we didn't know they were lying". The FSA is only interested in chasing Big Corp where they can easily get money out of them in fines. Why chase Joe Schmo who's not even got the money to pay a deposit on a house, never mind one of the FSA's massive fines.

Anyone in finance knows the FSA is not interested in fairness, only money - they have rules where if you blow the whistle on some things, they still chase you! (Money Laundering rules or something).

Edited by stillill

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It's the general public who are lying, the morgage lenders will just say "we followed the rules - we didn't know they were lying". The FSA is only interested in chasing Big Corp where they can easily get money out of them in fines. Why chase Joe Schmo who's not even got the money to pay a deposit on a house, never mind one of the FSA's massive fines.

Anyone in finance knows the FSA is not interested in fairness, only money - they have rules where if you blow the whistle on some things, they still chase you! (Money Laundering rules or something).

The whole point is - the Lenders themselves have been ACTIVELY encouraging borrowers to lie - SEE ABOVE - Follow Links - Watch the Video with Jenny Scott - see above. The FSA HAS TO deal with this -- the Lenders are poisining their OWN system by allowing/encouraging this fraud -- THIS IS THE UK "SUB-PRIME" --- THE UK HAVE NOT AVOIDED "SUB-PRIME" --- THEY ARE IN IT UP TO THEIR EYEBALLS.............

Edited by eric pebble

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No one made Joe Public lie about his income - it my have been suggested to him to do so but no one forced him - he knew the number on the mortgage application form was incorrect & he signed the declaration - JP has to take responsibility for his actions - if he can prove he was ill advised then fine, however if he can't prove it in a court of law then he has to learn a lesson.

Most people can calculate if they earn enough to pay a mortgage & still have enough left to live on - if they can't do that they should have asked a TRUSTED person (parent, spouse, sibling, etc) to help them do the calculation.

Saying 'but everyone was doing it, it was the only way to buy, blah, blah' etc is perhaps understandable but nevertheless in this world we are all responsible for our own actions, just as we have a responsibility to ask for TRUSTED advice when we don't know something.

I know this is a harsh take on the situation but you can be sure that it is one that ultimately the government & financial institutions will take also.

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No one made Joe Public lie about his income - it my have been suggested to him to do so but no one forced him - he knew the number on the mortgage application form was incorrect & he signed the declaration - JP has to take responsibility for his actions - if he can prove he was ill advised then fine, however if he can't prove it in a court of law then he has to learn a lesson.

Most people can calculate if they earn enough to pay a mortgage & still have enough left to live on - if they can't do that they should have asked a TRUSTED person (parent, spouse, sibling, etc) to help them do the calculation.

Saying 'but everyone was doing it, it was the only way to buy, blah, blah' etc is perhaps understandable but nevertheless in this world we are all responsible for our own actions, just as we have a responsibility to ask for TRUSTED advice when we don't know something.

I know this is a harsh take on the situation but you can be sure that it is one that ultimately the government & financial institutions will take also.

Just think for a moment about all those people you know or know of who have paid WAY over their REAL affordability levels...... Each one of us can probably think of scores..... Think about the implications of this.... So many people have paid totally absurd prices for just a place to live.... It has been a Mania.

See what's going on inthe US - http://thehousingbubbleblog.com/ --- and it's coming here soon....

Edited by eric pebble

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.....agreed ....it's a few hundred years since the South Sea bubble.....therefore it's time we started making examples of these rigged markets due to fraud .....help prevention in the future.... :ph34r::ph34r::ph34r:

August 1720 and it was suddenly realised there was not enough money left in the Kingdom to form the next layer of the pyramid in order to keep up the alchemy.And the King was the head of the Company.

August 2008 can King (Mervyn) keep the show on the road.Is there enough money supply and enough chavs left to form the next layer.

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.....agreed ....it's a few hundred years since the South Sea bubble.....therefore it's time we started making examples of these rigged markets due to fraud .....help prevention in the future.... :ph34r::ph34r::ph34r:

August 1720 and it was suddenly realised there was not enough money left in the Kingdom to form the next layer of the pyramid in order to keep the printing press to prosperity running.And the King was the head of the Company.

August 2008 can King (Mervyn) keep the show on the road.Is there enough money supply and enough chavs left to form the next layer.

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