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TeddyBear

Children's Fightclub - Panorama Monday Night

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Can't see that anyone has started a thread on this profoundly depressing documentary that was on last night that showed the many horribly violent videos of children fighting uploaded to websites and juxtaposed them with a smug spokesperson for Google Youtube talking about how the community must "regulate itself".

I thought I'd look up a bit about this Rachel Whetstone person and found that she is part of Dave's Notting Hill set. This seems so utterly typical of people brought up in a totally protetected environment not understanding how at some level people need protection and that is not censorship. Indeed, to me, her brand of non-censorship is far more dangerous to freedom of speech because by essentially saying that we must allow the unacceptable because all censorship is wrong, it risks our real freedoms as we risk one almightly clampdown if, to use RB's expression, poisons slowly hatch out in the mud until they can no longer be ignored.

One thing is for certain, with people like this behing big Dave, I'll never be voting Tory...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/article696213.ece

I've tracked down her email address and will write a complaint to her but I need to put a few weeks space inbetween it and the programme because I risk just ranting at this stage and wishing her to find her smug face bashed in and put all over the internet for the world to see!

The programme is on watch again at BBCs Panorama site. If you care about trying to keep this country a safe and civilised place to live in, I suggest that you look up Rachel Whetstone and her ilk at other websites and mobile phone operators and get writing.

n.b. I would say this links to house prices because of the all the social ills that come with HPI

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I watched it, and along with Dispatches was left thoroughly disgusted with the state this country is now in. I'm one of life's biggest pessimists and knew the country was in a dire state, but these programmes tipped me over the edge even further.

I have 2 options:

Buy a gun

or

Emigrate.

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I watched it, and along with Dispatches was left thoroughly disgusted with the state this country is now in. I'm one of life's biggest pessimists and knew the country was in a dire state, but these programmes tipped me over the edge even further.

To be honest I couldn't disagree with you both more. All I saw was what happened 25 years ago in my school on a regular basis (I must admit I only saw a few bits of the program).

When I was at school there were constantly fights, people being bullied and general bad behaviour, it was simply school life. While I don't dismiss the serious issues of bullying a fight in the school play ground has almost nothing to do with bullying. It's two of the schools hard nuts facing off for supremacy, nothing more nothing less. Bullying generally never involves a serious level of violent, in fact it cannot operate on that level because it then becomes obvious.

The only difference between now and then is simply the access to equipment capable of recording it. I also think that’s true in the wider media, 24 hours rolling news channels need something to talk about and therefore less serious crime, which in my opinion was always there is now given a higher profile. The hoodies of today have simply replaced the skin heads of the early 80's or the rockers/mods of the 60/70's, while people talk of fear of groups of teenagers they are nowhere near as threatening as a group of skin heads on a street corner in the 80's.

If I ignore whats said on the news and in the papers and look at my life, if anything I feel safer walking the streets now than when I did 10-15 years ago. I can honestly say my life is more or less no different than it has ever been and before you ask where I live it's not some posh area devoild of any trouble, it's the opposite but it has been like that, maybe it's a spread of what happens in my area to the more "upper class" areas, in that case welcome to the real world people.

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To be honest I couldn't disagree with you both more. All I saw was what happened 25 years ago in my school on a regular basis (I must admit I only saw a few bits of the program).

When I was at school there were constantly fights, people being bullied and general bad behaviour, it was simply school life. While I don't dismiss the serious issues of bullying a fight in the school play ground has almost nothing to do with bullying. It's two of the schools hard nuts facing off for supremacy, nothing more nothing less. Bullying generally never involves a serious level of violent, in fact it cannot operate on that level because it then becomes obvious.

The only difference between now and then is simply the access to equipment capable of recording it. I also think that’s true in the wider media, 24 hours rolling news channels need something to talk about and therefore less serious crime, which in my opinion was always there is now given a higher profile. The hoodies of today have simply replaced the skin heads of the early 80's or the rockers/mods of the 60/70's, while people talk of fear of groups of teenagers they are nowhere near as threatening as a group of skin heads on a street corner in the 80's.

If I ignore whats said on the news and in the papers and look at my life, if anything I feel safer walking the streets now than when I did 10-15 years ago. I can honestly say my life is more or less no different than it has ever been and before you ask where I live it's not some posh area devoild of any trouble, it's the opposite but it has been like that, maybe it's a spread of what happens in my area to the more "upper class" areas, in that case welcome to the real world people.

May I ask did you see the programme? Never mind all this "it happened in my day and it didn't do us any harm" business, if you saw the programme were you at all in any way dismayed at what you saw? Or do you get some kind of sick thrill from watching children fighting?

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I didn't see the program but here's my thoughts anyway!!

The difference is

1) the victims are humiliated even more by having their attack recorded for posterity

2) the bullying is extended because of the added extra entertainment value it provides

3) no doubt some bullying occurs purely because of the motivation of recording and downloading the images

YouTube cannot reasonably be aware of all the images downloaded however they must remove these images of an abusive nature as soon as they become aware of them and hand the images over to the police.

If YouTube was sued for a hefty amount for carrying these images then they would soon find the resources to vet the vids.

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Indeed, to me, her brand of non-censorship is far more dangerous to freedom of speech because by essentially saying that we must allow the unacceptable because all censorship is wrong, it risks our real freedoms as we risk one almightly clampdown if, to use RB's expression, poisons slowly hatch out in the mud until they can no longer be ignored.

How on earth is showing films of abuse in any way related to fredom of speech? It's not as though they are films of bullies giving eloquent and though provoking speeches in defence of their habit of "Happy Slapping". Would she be willing to defend YouTube hosting videos of torture snuff on the grounds that to ban it would impinge on free speech?

The woman is clearly a tw@t. WHy am I not suprised she's a tory.

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I do know that fighting has always happened and teens have in my lifetime always been very tribal (don't know much about before then) , mods vs rockers, punks vs skins, private school vs comp etc etc

What worries me here is

the encouragement to create violence to get one's 15 minutes of fame

the long term humilation that victims have to live with

the idea that our society is capable of self-regulating

that charges are not being brought against attackers despite clear video evidence

the fact that companies are generating significant advertising revenue through showing this

the difficulty that a few young people, brought up on a diet of violent games and films, have distinguishing between fantasy and reality before it's too late for both them and their victims

We're not talking a few bruises and a couple of black eyes here, we're talking violence to the the extent of long term injury and, in some cases, death

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I do know that fighting has always happened and teens have in my lifetime always been very tribal (don't know much about before then) , mods vs rockers, punks vs skins, private school vs comp etc etc

What worries me here is

the encouragement to create violence to get one's 15 minutes of fame

the long term humilation that victims have to live with

the idea that our society is capable of self-regulating

that charges are not being brought against attackers despite clear video evidence

the fact that companies are generating significant advertising revenue through showing this

the difficulty that a few young people, brought up on a diet of violent games and films, have distinguishing between fantasy and reality before it's too late for both them and their victims

We're not talking a few bruises and a couple of black eyes here, we're talking violence to the the extent of long term injury and, in some cases, death

To be honest my post was more in response to Jimothy in regard to the fact that the country has gone to hell in a hand cart in recent years. My response is that it hasn't and I fully stand by it.

Never mind all this "it happened in my day and it didn't do us any harm" business,

In resonse to the program, I saw enough of it to make an informed opinion. I never once said it didn't do any harm I simply said, again in response to Jimothy, that this is how things have always been but access to equipement capable of recording it is the only real difference. I'll agree that the recording does add a new element but if anything it will only aid in the highlighting of the problem.

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OK, just watched it in full.

Please can you tell me in which part they mentioned death, you can be sure if there was any instances then it would have been mentioned, if not I'd like you to retract this statement.

We're not talking a few bruises and a couple of black eyes here, we're talking violence to the the extent of long term injury and, in some cases, death

Also there is no evidence what so ever that the taking of video is the cause of the violence, it is simply a by product of it. For example the first and in all honesty the only real case in the program with any merit was the first, this was an attack by people high on drugs hardly representative of the rest of the cases in the program.

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Whilst I agree it's depressing viewing.The lady from Google is RIGHT.

...we are being bombarded with stuff like this,happy slapping and the like in order to persuade us to censor the media(including the net) even more.This is a dangerous spiral down to stasiland if this route is taken.

...the police have all the tools necessary to bring these people to justice already by matching the participants with facial recognition photos from passports(kids have these too!) etc.

..it's about time they made use of them,rather than get some frikkin politician to curtail the freedom the rest of us law abiding folk are entitled to.

...oh,and better enforcement from the judicary would be a plus...time to take the kid gloves off.

Do you want the guilty to be punished,or EVERYONE to be a suspect?

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