Migrant Influx Has Kept A Lid On Wages - Bloomberg

[Cptkernow]

We live in a fascist state

Hmm which is more fascist, a state that allows free flows of labour and voluntary agreements between human beings or one that seeks to discriminate against potential employees on grounds of ethnicity.

To be against a strong authoritarian centralised State and also against free migration is a contradictory position. Free migration can only be stopped via violence surveillance and coercion. Are you a fan of ID cards? these would have to be compulsory if immigration was to be contained.

Freedom surely means to go where I like when I like and to work for or employee who I like without having big brother tell me to do otherwise on the grounds of something as irrational as nationality.

To want to empower the individual at the expense of the State and to want to impose immigration controls is an oxymorinic position.

[Guest Farticus]

Please can we cut through the bull

1.4 Million immigrants coming to this small overcrowded country, most of whom ARE taking/competing for jobs that were currently filled is a F**KING STUPID IDEA, with no benefit for the general population whatsoever, in fact the inverse.

Paying the idle to slouch around on benefits while menial work goes begging is also a pretty F**KING STUPID IDEA, but hey right on man, they've got human rights!

1 Government, 2 dum short term ideas (for starters), closer european integration and HPI at the expense of the

intrinsic populus, Priceless!

[nowthenagain]

with china and india able to make what we used to make much cheaper we should be grateful that some people are willing to work in this country for closer to a realistic global market wage.

we are all going to have to get used to our wages being much lower in the future, whether this means in money or real terms.

[brainclamp]

To bear the brunt of the reunification of europe to which we have a common culture and values is one thing, but to have our societies changed, or culture eroded and our values undermined everyday by 3/4 of immigration being non EU and largely muslim is another. I am a widely read person and I have even read the koran.

If you read the koran there is no compromise with its ideals, you have to slaugther the infidel/non believers as your duty before god. (although 'people of the book' should be spared (christians)).

[nowthenagain]

To bear the brunt of the reunification of europe to which we have a common culture and values is one thing, but to have our societies changed, or culture eroded and our values undermined everyday by 3/4 of immigration being non EU and largely muslim is another. I am a widely read person and I have even read the koran.

If you read the koran there is no compromise with its ideals, you have to slaugther the infidel/non believers as your duty before god. (although 'people of the book' should be spared (christians)).

you're a moron. what is our society? what is our culture?

britain has always been a country of diverse ethinc origin (norman, roman, celtic.. etc), our culture is a myth.

besides, in this global age, to draw a line around the uk and define them and us is impossible. we, the population of this world, are all in it together, whether you like it or not.

we should be embracing the world, not rejecting it. protectionism has never worked.

[brainclamp]

It is an astonishing thought that people no longer get rich through working hard and saving - but its largely true.

I have been bullish for a long time now, and I still see rises ahead, but I am starting to think like Charles Dumas of Lombard Street, and some unsettling doubts are being instilled in me - although I am adamant that mass immigration and population pressures are going to lead to massive drop in living standards.

He states that we are getting low inflation from Asian hard work, but this will change as Asia starts to fuel its domestic markets by lowering its savings rate, and in consequence we will be forced to raise ours. This will mean some tough times.

This 'dissaving' is already occuring in India as they release the peg, Thailand as they release thier peg. The collpase of the USD to these insanely low levels means many countires are depegging, fueling higher rates and inflation worldwide. I believe Dumas (who i have a lot of respect for) forecasts that interest rates may hit 8.5% in the UK though this process.

By then though, most of the population in the uk will be under ID cards and the control of the state.

[Xurbia]

besides, in this global age, to draw a line around the uk and define them and us is impossible. we, the population of this world, are all in it together, whether you like it or not.

we should be embracing the world, not rejecting it. protectionism has never worked.

You have just identified the root of the problem. The British government have decided that we will have mass immigration whether we like it or not. The people elect the government but that seems to have been forgotten in the excitement to reduce wages.

If jobs get offshored and the immigration policy squeezes the remaining jobs don't be surprised if resentment follows. I don't think it's any coincidence that the government were keen to flood the country with cheap labour during properous times. It's a social experiment.

Protectionism might not work but the French don't seem to do too badly out of it!

[oracle]

Most of the white people where I live in Sluff are Polish. I doubt that I am exaggerating.

I think that EE's coming here and stealing jobs amounts to the same thing as scabs crossing a picket line, but obviously it's employer lobbies that have caused governments to open us up in this way.

We should have been even more inventive with our benefits. Minimum wage plus dole or help with housing, that kind of thing, rather than fill up on slaves who are prepared to live many to a room or shed...

We have well and truly shafted our upcoming generations.

Well done.

the real culprit is this nonsense government dumbing down education and relaxing benefits.

if they'd have taken a tough line and said,right..exams are getting harder,less benefits and it will be EXPECTED of you...or else we'll get immigrants in as well....your choice....oh and by the way,the tax threshold on low earners will be raised considerably,in line with more of you being productive members of society...the less workshy we have,the lower your taxes......that'll get the middle class on board beating the spongers with a stick too.

things might have been a bit better.

of course socialist governments see better educated people as a threat,so they won't do it....better to keep people going at the pace of the slowest.

the EE's are perfectly within their rights to want to better their standard of living,but WE as taxpayers ought to direct how the money WE raise is spent....and it is spent a lot more wisely on raising the moral/educational and commercial standards of OUR OWN kids.

Edited July 18, 2007 by oracle

[Guest vicmac64]

Crossing a picket line does not make you a scab, it means you have some work ethic. If you don't like what you get paid, get a job elsewhere. If you are not qualified or bright enough to do anything else, shut up, eyes down and get working.

I work hard as a self employed individual - I have never taken a penny from the govt in handouts - but I object to economic immigration!

Maybe its you that isn't bright enough to see the consequences of uncontrolled socio politico immigration??

What has qualifications to do with ability to do a job?? Some of the highest paid leaders of industry have no qualifications at all!!!

So where do you fit in the social spectrum??? Smart but low on common sense????? just a thought

[alabala]

Anyone seen this two ?

http://www.rbs.com/content/economic/uk_eco...s/migration.pdf

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publication...7/speech297.pdf

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?ID=950

The literature on immigration focuses on the economic factors that determine migration.

Very simply, the literature says that individuals will compare the income benefits from

migration with the economic and social costs of moving. If the benefits outweigh the

costs, they may choose to migrate. The gain from moving will be calculated as the

expected income differential between the destination country and the country of origin,

which will in turn be determined by the relative probability of getting a job – captured by

differences in the unemployment or employment rates.

In summary, the favourable macroeconomic climate (low unemployment) and high

standard of living in the UK (GDP per capita) are reasons why immigrants from the A8

countries may have been attracted to the UK

The Royal Bank of Scotland Group - Polish plumbers: mending your pipes and keeping your mortgage down

Oxford Economics estimates that in 2006, migration added enough people to the workforce to push interest rates down by half of a percentage point. For example, rather than being 5.0% at the end of the year as they were, without the contribution of migrants rates would have been 5.5%. That’s enough to have reduced payments on the average mortgage by £500 a year in 2006.

The Treasury’s view is that the trend rate of growth – the speed at which the economy can grow without inflation rising – will be 2¾% rather than 2½% over the next few years, all because of migration

Edited July 18, 2007 by alabala

[Nicholas Cage]

Mr BNP....Polish people are actually very nice people in the main.

They are also very hard working, and diligent.

No they're not, same as anyone some are good people some are bad people. Unless you judge someone by where they come from or the colour of thei skin.

[OnlyMe]

The Treasury’s view is that the trend rate of growth – the speed at which the economy can grow without inflation rising – will be 2¾% rather than 2½% over the next few years, all because of migration

Growth, what growth - body count? Money supply is certainly growing, so is congestion, hassle, people living like rats on top of one another.

The economy may be growing but living standards are FALLING.

Edited July 18, 2007 by OnlyMe

[IDN]

Please can we cut through the bull

1.4 Million immigrants coming to this small overcrowded country, most of whom ARE taking/competing for jobs that were currently filled is a F**KING STUPID IDEA, with no benefit for the general population whatsoever, in fact the inverse.

Paying the idle to slouch around on benefits while menial work goes begging is also a pretty F**KING STUPID IDEA, but hey right on man, they've got human rights!

1 Government, 2 dum short term ideas (for starters), closer european integration and HPI at the expense of the

intrinsic populus, Priceless!

yep -agree 100%

[wickywackywoo]

you're a moron. what is our society? what is our culture?

britain has always been a country of diverse ethinc origin (norman, roman, celtic.. etc), our culture is a myth.

besides, in this global age, to draw a line around the uk and define them and us is impossible. we, the population of this world, are all in it together, whether you like it or not.

we should be embracing the world, not rejecting it. protectionism has never worked.

Perhaps you should go to a muslim country and try explaining to them that they have no culture.

Moron.

[Cptkernow]

...and it is spent a lot more wisely on raising the moral/educational and commercial standards of OUR OWN kids.

Exactly what is stopping you educating YOUR OWN kids? Shame on you if you leave the education of your children as the sole responsibility of the State. If your children dont have the skills required to compete in the modern age, the buck stops with you the parent and no one else.

[IDN]

did anyone hear about the burka brigade protesting at :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6904622.stm

the burkas were saying the police should go to hell and how they dont the law etc etc- well if you dont like it here, you know where to go!

Edited July 18, 2007 by IDN

[alabala]

http://213.86.34.248/NR/rdonlyres/805656A4...igration_FR.pdf

The Impact of Recent Immigration on the London Economy July 2007

4 Accommodating the migrant population – the impact on housing markets

These suggest that the net numbers of migrants remaining in London might have been overestimated by as much as 60 thousand people since 2001, more than offsetting any increase in household numbers arising from the changed population projections.

What matters in the short- to medium-term is that migrants will demand less housing than equivalent numbers of non-migrants. Finally, we have already noted that those from richer countries who generally have higher incomes and higher demands are less likely to stay for longer periods. Hence, the conclusion that migrants will require less housing than the established population appears quite robust.

Buy-to-Let now accounts for around 10% of all new mortgages in 2006 (CML., 2007). Research for the GLA suggests that up to 70% of all new completions in the London region went to investors, of whom the vast majority are in the Buy-to-Let market (HoC, CLGSC, 2007; London Development Research Ltd, 2007). Clearly migrant demand is important in providing tenant demand for these properties. Equally some of the investors will themselves be migrants, perhaps providing for the next wave of entrants.More generally house prices rise because of increases not only in the numbers of households but also because of rising incomes and expectations about future house price rises, as well as alternative investment opportunities.

It is alsoclear that, to the extent that they become private tenants, supply has been able to adjust so rents have not risen. Other problems such as overcrowding and increasing numbers of unlicensed Houses in Multiple Occupation have, however, almost certainly increased, while space standards may have declined – at least at the bottom end of the market where migrants tend to be concentrated.

There may in addition be secondary effects through increased investment demand for housing both through Buy-to-Let, and international company and individual demand. At least at the higher end of the market this effect is almost certainly more important than that of migration as such.

Migrants increase the numbers of households looking for accommodation in the capital. Their initial impact on demand, however, is lower than among native households with similar attributes. Migrants are also initially far more likely to be in the private rented sector than indigenous households. The net impact of in-migration into London is partially offset by out-migration of other households to the rest of the country. The impact on demand for housing in London is therefore much less than might at first be assumed. Over time, however, the housing demands of migrants become more similar to indigenous households and overall demand is therefore further increased. The increase in demand for housing generated by immigrants increases both house prices and the incentive to increase supply. Supply, however, is relatively inelastic – so it is the impact on prices which dominates. Private renting on the other hand has been able to expand, so that rents have been rising much more slowly than house prices.

Much of the increased demand for housing in London comes from this investment demand rather than specifically from in-migration

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publication...in/qb060401.pdf

"Of this group of immigrants, the data suggest that the majority intend to stay in the country for at most four years. If this is broadly true, one might expect the impact on aggregate demand to be more limited than if immigrants intend to stay for longer. That is because temporary immigrants may be less willing to incur the full costs of setting up home; for example, they may purchase fewer durable goods."

"The data on immigration to the United Kingdom are subject to considerable measurement error."

"Immigration may also have increased the supply potential of the economy by lowering the natural rate of unemployment; either by reducing skills gaps in a tight labour market or by tempering the wage demands of domestic workers, or both."

http://www.workpermit.com/news/2007-05-02/...immigration.htm

"Surges in immigration to destinations such as the UK, Australia, New Zealand and the U.S. are seen as having a significant impact on record housing prices."

http://anepigone.blogspot.com/2006/04/immi...ip-society.html

http://www.antonnews.com/glencoverecordpil.../08/21/opinion/

http://www.labor.ca.gov/panel/pdf/impactimmcaecon.pdf

The major fluctuations in California’s share of national job growth have little, if anything, to do with immigration flows. Job growth surged in the late 1970s and mid-1980s, as a result of high tech startups and defense spending. Job growth turned negative in the early 1990s as defense spending slowed and housing construction plummeted. Growth surged again with the Internet boom in the mid-1990s, and then slowed after 2000 as many new firms failed and high tech cut jobs.

Edited July 19, 2007 by alabala

[rnicoll]

Thats what they said about the miners who crossed the picket line in 1984-85

They wanted to work and had the right to work.

So they worked and therefore ensured defeat for the strike.

The outcome, all the pits were closed, and all made unemployed at a time when there already was mass unemployment.

Not only the mining industry was decimated but power stations, steel works, railways in fact the beginning of the decline of the manufacturing industry in this country.

Wait... the pits closed because they _didn't_ pay the miners a decent wage. Erm. Huh?

[rnicoll]

Paying the idle to slouch around on benefits while menial work goes begging is also a pretty F**KING STUPID IDEA, but hey right on man, they've got human rights!

The benefits system is a total wreck. Friend of mine graduated from uni back in June, and we had hoped to employ her, but didn't have funding for a full time member of staff. However, we did have funding for a part time member of staff for a couple of months. Turns out, there's a few thousand a year bracket where it's not worth her doing any work, because she loses in benefits exactly as much as she earns. Oh, except now she has less free time, and costs of getting to/from work. She's taken the job, but let me just repeat this...

For someone who has been offered a part time job, they may be worse off doing the job, than not.

[DabHand]

Very quickly:

The Royal Bank of Scotland Group - Polish plumbers: mending your pipes and keeping your mortgage down

Oxford Economics estimates that in 2006, migration added enough people to the workforce to push interest rates down by half of a percentage point. For example, rather than being 5.0% at the end of the year as they were, without the contribution of migrants rates would have been 5.5%. That’s enough to have reduced payments on the average mortgage by £500 a year in 2006.

That will because they reduce inflation by suppressing wages. The same wages that problem pipe house owner will be relying on to pay their average mortgage.

The Treasury’s view is that the trend rate of growth – the speed at which the economy can grow without inflation rising – will be 2¾% rather than 2½% over the next few years, all because of migration

Oh how very jolly. Slightly more growth spread thinner by capita due to increased overall population. Con!