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OzzMosiz

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Ok, I've got a job interview on Friday for a good company who will provide lots of training for me (my skills are degrading)

considering the negatives and positives of each, what would you do. I'm leaning towards going as I need the training.

Had an over the phone tech interview and scored 10/12 - so I stand a good chance of getting the job.

For the record

Company I work for pays quite well and has good bonuses of:

1) good pay

2) good pension

3) work from home once or twice a week

4) only 36 mile round trip to and from work

5) flexi-time

Negative:

1) No training (although I will get a 3.8K training course soon- which is unusual)

2) Bloke who I work with is leaving soon so I will have all the pressure on me (not that I really mind)

3) I'm bored at times.

New Company

Positives:

1) tonnes of training

2) same or more money

Negatives:

1) 120 mile round trip

2) 7am-3:30pm work hours (get up at 5:40) - longer day overall.

3) no working from home.

4) occasional working on Saturday

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Guest Cletus VanDamme

The hours and commute of the new job sound horrendous. No home working and have to go in Saturdays. They'll say 'occasional' but you can bet it will be pretty regular.

The only benefit seems to be the training.

For me, that's not worth it. I tend to sort out my own training, but then I prefer to be a free agent.

Most promises of training turn out to be hot air anyway.

Having said that, being bored is usually my main driver for changing job, so I can understand that aspect of wanted to take the new challenge in this new job.

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The hours and commute of the new job sound horrendous. No home working and have to go in Saturdays. They'll say 'occasional' but you can bet it will be pretty regular.

The only benefit seems to be the training.

For me, that's not worth it. I tend to sort out my own training, but then I prefer to be a free agent.

Most promises of training turn out to be hot air anyway.

Having said that, being bored is usually my main driver for changing job, so I can understand that aspect of wanted to take the new challenge in this new job.

One of my best mates works there. He's been there for 18 months and had about 10 training courses worth around 30K.

This is what is tempting me - I'm going to the interview anyway, but if they offer me the job then the dilemma starts.

some of the training he's had:

Netbackup

Veritas Volume Vanager

Solaris 10 Administration

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The commute sounds dreadful. Is that a drive or a train journey anyway ?

If the person you work with is leaving, surely that puts you in a strong bargaining position - you could try and get some training or extra dosh as your work load will increase.

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The commute sounds dreadful. Is that a drive or a train journey anyway ?

If the person you work with is leaving, surely that puts you in a strong bargaining position - you could try and get some training or extra dosh as your work load will increase.

The commute ain't the best, pretty much all M4, but it will be slightly shifted out of rush hour so probably an hour each way.

The person who's leaving in my current workplace is taking VR, the company is going through emloyee reductions, so not sure I have much bargaining power in terms of salary negotiation, but the company is willing to spend 3K on a course to do my current job. The new job gives me more scope to work in other places (after a few years).

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One of my best mates works there. He's been there for 18 months and had about 10 training courses worth around 30K.

This is what is tempting me - I'm going to the interview anyway, but if they offer me the job then the dilemma starts.

some of the training he's had:

Netbackup

Veritas Volume Vanager

Solaris 10 Administration

Netbackup, you can train yourself in that within 5hrs

Veritas, again p1ss easy

Solaris, I'm afraid Sun Skills are not really much in demand, in comparison to what they used to be. Any Industrial Unix is good, teach yourself Aix CBT, easy.

I wouldnt be swayed for those particular training courses, but if the money is better, then I would be off like a shot!!.

Do you work in storage ?

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Netbackup, you can train yourself in that within 5hrs

Veritas, again p1ss easy

Solaris, I'm afraid Sun Skills are not really much in demand, in comparison to what they used to be. Any Industrial Unix is good, teach yourself Aix CBT, easy.

I wouldnt be swayed for those particular training courses, but if the money is better, then I would be off like a shot!!.

Do you work in storage ?

There will be other courses too. I have a pretty good unix background already (SUSE, Ubuntu) so any unix courses will be a refresher.

I know there will be Puredisk training too.

At the moment my role is application support and installation (spec'ing hardware/software requirements for telecoms developers).

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Company I work for pays quite well and has good bonuses of:

1) good pay

2) good pension

3) work from home once or twice a week

4) only 36 mile round trip to and from work

5) flexi-time

Negative:

1) No training (although I will get a 3.8K training course soon- which is unusual)

2) Bloke who I work with is leaving soon so I will have all the pressure on me (not that I really mind)

3) I'm bored at times.

New Company

Positives:

1) tonnes of training

2) same or more money

Negatives:

1) 120 mile round trip

2) 7am-3:30pm work hours (get up at 5:40) - longer day overall.

3) no working from home.

4) occasional working on Saturday

The first one sounds like my ideal job, I'm not sure how much experience you have working outside of your current company but do not underestimate how valuable workign from home and flexi time are, despite all the bolloxs in the media about working from home companies simply want you to be in the office all the time so they can keep their beedy eyes on you.

I'd also echo the concerns about the training, IMO it is vastly over rated, I have worked at companies which offer training and then others that don't, my general feeling is that it is pointless unless you get to use it and if you are half decent a week or two of practical experience and you will know more than they told you anyway.

Also staff training is the first thing that goes out of the window when costs need to be cut.

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Also staff training is the first thing that goes out of the window when costs need to be cut.

True, but every job I see that interests me always ask for certain formal experience which I don't have. This makes moving to new job difficult.

If I was made redundant now, I'd have to take at least a 10K pay cut to get a similiar job.

The job I have at the moment has NO scope for working on different technologies. It will be purely Clearcase and Build environments.

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I've just been offered the job with a 10% pay increase on what I'm earning now, with overtime and liu time.

decisions decisions!

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It sounds like you'd be taking a significant quality of life hit in exchange for more money (but does the new job come with a pension that's as good as your existing one?), a more interesting job and potential training benefits.

Personally I've found applications software training courses a waste of time and have self-taught myself on pretty much everything I use: but I'm not an IT professional. If the training courses result in certificates that you might need in order to move up the career ladder (i.e. if you need pieces of paper to say you can do it), then that's a plus.

I value the flexible working (including from home) which my job allows, and would need to be tempted by serious carrots to give that up. In my last job I had a 98-mile round trip, but that was usually a maximum of four days a week in the office. Doing the journey outside the rush hour wasn't too bad, but the prospect of the long drive at the end of a long and tiring day wasn't always a nice one.

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It sounds like you'd be taking a significant quality of life hit in exchange for more money (but does the new job come with a pension that's as good as your existing one?), a more interesting job and potential training benefits.

Personally I've found applications software training courses a waste of time and have self-taught myself on pretty much everything I use: but I'm not an IT professional. If the training courses result in certificates that you might need in order to move up the career ladder (i.e. if you need pieces of paper to say you can do it), then that's a plus.

I value the flexible working (including from home) which my job allows, and would need to be tempted by serious carrots to give that up. In my last job I had a 98-mile round trip, but that was usually a maximum of four days a week in the office. Doing the journey outside the rush hour wasn't too bad, but the prospect of the long drive at the end of a long and tiring day wasn't always a nice one.

TAB,

You've hit on all my issues.

1) Job comes with a similiar pensions (current = 2x contributions upto 4%, new = 1.5x contributions upto 6%)

2) current = 1 training course gauranteed new = lots of training courses - with certification

3) current = flexi hours+working from home 1 day per week new = no flexi hours

4) current = 38 mile round trip new = 120 mile round trip

5) current = usual end of year bonuses at 10%(ish) new = none

I'm still in a dilemma - stay at the easy cushty job

Go for new job that involves more travelling, more hours, less flexibility but more training

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Personally I've found applications software training courses a waste of time and have self-taught myself on pretty much everything I use: but I'm not an IT professional. If the training courses result in certificates that you might need in order to move up the career ladder (i.e. if you need pieces of paper to say you can do it), then that's a plus.

If anything technical training courses are pretty much the same, might get you started but without practical work to do at the end of it are worth less.

That for me is the key, if it is a case of training courses but the same work as you are doing now then I would say it is not worth it, if it were training and then using the skills in a practical environment then thats a different matter.

I can only say that I would value working at home/Flexi time much higher than anything else, I'd take a £10k pay cut tomorrow if my boss said I could work from home.

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If anything technical training courses are pretty much the same, might get you started but without practical work to do at the end of it are worth less.

That for me is the key, if it is a case of training courses but the same work as you are doing now then I would say it is not worth it, if it were training and then using the skills in a practical environment then thats a different matter.

I can only say that I would value working at home/Flexi time much higher than anything else, I'd take a £10k pay cut tomorrow if my boss said I could work from home.

Its practical training, training that will be used, on technologies I currently have no experience on.

As for working from home, only allowed to do it 1 day per week, 2 at a stretch!

I think I've made my mind up anyway. I think the training is a good investment, and change isn't all that bad.

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If you have taken the job then good luck, and all the best.

If you have not, be very carefull.

A lot of companies are recruiting as people have heard through the grapevine their jobs are going shortly and jumped ship early. Leaving a temporary three month hole in the department till it finally gets the axe.

Several of my friends have experienced this recently leaving secure jobs, only to find they get three months and a layoff with no package or redundancy pay.

Its a bad world out there!! do your research.

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I've just resigned from my job. Been in the company for 15 years (only company I've worked for). Feels quite liberating.

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Company I work for pays quite well and has good bonuses of:

1) good pay

2) good pension

3) work from home once or twice a week

4) only 36 mile round trip to and from work

5) flexi-time

Negative:

1) No training (although I will get a 3.8K training course soon- which is unusual)

2) Bloke who I work with is leaving soon so I will have all the pressure on me (not that I really mind)

3) I'm bored at times.

New Company

Positives:

1) tonnes of training

2) same or more money

Negatives:

1) 120 mile round trip

2) 7am-3:30pm work hours (get up at 5:40) - longer day overall.

3) no working from home.

4) occasional working on Saturday

The new job sounds great, most of the posties I meet are very happy; dont know any that travel 120m to do their rounds tho :blink:

Seriously tho, walking away from 10% less salary and losing a 10% bonus is not a win. :unsure: Doing it to jump into a strange job you dont know when you have virtual security of tenure with a cheeky chance of redundancy (15 years worth!!!) and an imminent promotion, and casually quadrupling your commute into the bargain (whats that in $s petrol/w&t - let alone time?) sounds like an interesting career choice.

Wish you luck with it (not being sarky...) 15 years is more than I've even stayed in the same country... :lol:

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The new job sounds great, most of the posties I meet are very happy; dont know any that travel 120m to do their rounds tho :blink:

Seriously tho, walking away from 10% less salary and losing a 10% bonus is not a win. :unsure: Doing it to jump into a strange job you dont know when you have virtual security of tenure with a cheeky chance of redundancy (15 years worth!!!) and an imminent promotion, and casually quadrupling your commute into the bargain (whats that in $s petrol/w&t - let alone time?) sounds like an interesting career choice.

Wish you luck with it (not being sarky...) 15 years is more than I've even stayed in the same country... :lol:

Training will be about 30Ks worth over 2 years! Driving will be shared with a work mate.

I had no chance of redundancy due to the work I do. They didn't want to lose me, but didn't want to pay me any more.

Others are being made redundant in the company though.

I'd rather take a job that will stimulate me (and train me) than sit in a job where I know they will take the pi55 because they think I'm a sheep. Shame I couldn't get redundancy though as it would've been 25K tax free.

Oh and I'm moving 20 miles closer once my contract is up on the place I rent.

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Been in the company for 15 years (only company I've worked for).

Good luck OzzMoziz, but for me thats the killer, it may well work out fine but different jobs can be very very different it might be a bit of a culture shock.

I still think the training aspect is vastly over rated. My first few years in IT I was the same keen to hoover up training courses and took jobs on the basis of "promised" training, now it is simply not on my criteria as with the odd exception all the trainging I did was a waste of time. Not once has anybody asked or mentioned about training I might have done during an interview.

What is important is that you are happy with the decision and it seems you are.

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Yeah I am happy with it. The training leads to skills, that is what employers want. Training in things like programming or OS's is easy to do on your own, but not when its third party software (software that is used my most IT companies).

I'm sure it will be a culture shock, but that's all part of the learning process I guess :)

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