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How Do People Survive?


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HOLA441
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HOLA442
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HOLA443

I currently live in the US. Here, credit card companies are giving away free flights, hotel stays and petrol cards.

By taking advantage of these promos and then cancelling them, we are able to get out and awful lot. This is something I enjoy - best take advantage of it before we move to England where promos are hard to find.

I drive a Ford Focus 2000 - nice little runner and not knickable like the Honda that was stolen from my sis-in-law.

We keep out outgoings less than our income and manage to save something every month.

Most of you seem to have the right idea.

I was never one to keep up with the Jones' - why take on debt to keep up with them?

Happiness

Few can attain it

None can sustain it

Contentment is best

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HOLA444
My wife and I have an average sized family - 2 kids living with us at home

We live in an average priced house - around £190k

We have an average household income - around £3k per month nett

We have a car each, a 5-year old Zafira on HP and a 10 year old Fiesta.

All in all, pretty average.

However, our mortgage is only £25k with 5 years left, we've no credit cards, and no other borrowing.

We get by OK - not a flash lifestyle and we don't manage to save much, but we live quite nicely.

The average family though, has a mortgage in excess of £100k, credit card debts of over £5k, and other debts to boot.

How the HELL do they survive? The sums just don't add up. Are average people really MEWing and racking up CC debt just to pay for everyday life, never mind the treats?

If so, this situation is even worse than I thought!

We are also an average (London) couple with one baby and we get by quite easily.

Our net income is a little more than yours - about 4 k a month (plus about 20 k at Christmas in bonuses and pension contributions - so about 68 k net per year) but then we live in London and so it is compareable. London is more expensive.

As my wife only works half time, there will be little child care costs (currently there are none as she is on maternity leave). As we work in the same company, we only need one car - we have one 5 years old Focus.

We bought our 3 bed property in North London more than 3 years ago for 180 k. The current mortgage is 166 k, the property value about 220-230 k. We bought without any deposit and have now about 60 k equity (on paper). We have some 10 k on cards following the refurbishment of our property (a 0% deal for 12 months and a 6% life time deal). We can currently easily reduce our total debts by about 1 k per month - despite of going on holidays abroad several times a year, spending thousands on our new baby, and buying high quality, healthy food. We do not spend our child benefit money but put it into our baby's trust fund. And (in our mid thirties) we already have saved about 50 k "retirement money" in funds (current private pension contributions - incl. company - about 1 k per month). We contribute to courses our company does not fully pay for (like language or business courses).

So when it comes to spending money, important to us are (in random order): A nicely refurbished property that we own, healthy food, our baby, holidays abroad, further education, contributions to our retirement funds of 1 k a month and debt repayments of 1 k (capital) a month. People might wonder how we can afford all this on our salary.

The answer is that we save on items that are not so important for us and make some cuts other people might not be prepared to do. We bought our car on e-Bay for less than 3 k (a dealer would have charged about 5 k+ for it). We even tried two years without any car but it is now too difficult with the baby. I often take the bus to work which saves a few pounds per day. Almost all of our clothes come from Asda, Tesco and Sainsbury - and even that is mainly reduced. The most expensive restaurant we ever go to is Harvester (if we pay ourselves). Our holiday flights are almost all with Ryanair. On most of our holiday trips abroad we stay with relatives or combine business trips with holidays (so we rarely pay for accommodation). We do a lot of research to find the cheapest deals for insurances, electricity, gas, broadband etc. and switch regularily to the cheapest providers. We sell unwanted items on e-bay. We have a strict spending plan that requires us to repay at least an average of 1,000 pounds debt (capital) per month. The car is partly financed by the company as the business miles are worth 40 pence a mile but due to the low cost of the car the real costs are about 25 pence a mile (incl. depreciation). We rarely go out to drink (apart from maybe one glass of wine or beer every month), and do not smoke. Much of the home refurbishment was done by ourselves and by workers/companies who normally work for our company (and hence gave us excellent deals). And so it goes on.

No life is the same - you can still have a relatively good life in the UK on a relatively average salary without increasing your debt all the time. But you have to focus on the things that are important to you and cut back on other things. We had to go into debt for the purchase of our home and the refurbishment, but now the ongoing costs are easy to manage and our debts get quickly smaller month by month. Even 10% interest rate would be no problem for us.

LION

Edited by LION
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HOLA445
We are also an average (London) couple with one baby and we get by quite easily.

Our net income is a little more than yours - about 4 k a month (plus about 20 k at Christmas in bonuses and pension contributions - so about 68 k net per year) but then we live in London and so it is compareable. London is more expensive.

As my wife only works half time, there will be little child care costs (currently there are none as she is on maternity leave). As we work in the same company, we only need one car - we have one 5 years old Focus.

We bought our 3 bed property in North London more than 3 years ago for 180 k. The current mortgage is 166 k, the property value about 220-230 k. We bought without any deposit and have now about 60 k equity (on paper). We have some 10 k on cards following the refurbishment of our property (a 0% deal for 12 months and a 6% life time deal). We can currently easily reduce our total debts by about 1 k per month - despite of going on holidays abroad several times a year, spending thousands on our new baby, and buying high quality, healthy food. We do not spend our child benefit money but put it into our baby's trust fund. And (in our mid thirties) we already have saved about 50 k "retirement money" in funds (current private pension contributions - incl. company - about 1 k per month). We contribute to courses our company does not fully pay for (like language or business courses).

So when it comes to spending money, important to us are (in random order): A nicely refurbished property that we own, healthy food, our baby, holidays abroad, further education, contributions to our retirement funds of 1 k a month and debt repayments of 1 k (capital) a month. People might wonder how we can afford all this on our salary.

The answer is that we save on items that are not so important for us and make some cuts other people might not be prepared to do. We bought our car on e-Bay for less than 3 k (a dealer would have charged about 5 k+ for it). We even tried two years without any car but it is now too difficult with the baby. I often take the bus to work which saves a few pounds per day. Almost all of our clothes come from Asda, Tesco and Sainsbury - and even that is mainly reduced. The most expensive restaurant we ever go to is Harvester (if we pay ourselves). Our holiday flights are almost all with Ryanair. On most of our holiday trips abroad we stay with relatives or combine business trips with holidays (so we rarely pay for accommodation). We do a lot of research to find the cheapest deals for insurances, electricity, gas, broadband etc. and switch regularily to the cheapest providers. We sell unwanted items on e-bay. We have a strict spending plan that requires us to repay at least an average of 1,000 pounds debt (capital) per month. The car is partly financed by the company as the business miles are worth 40 pence a mile but due to the low cost of the car the real costs are about 25 pence a mile (incl. depreciation). We rarely go out to drink (apart from maybe one glass of wine or beer every month), and do not smoke. Much of the home refurbishment was done by ourselves and by workers/companies who normally work for our company (and hence gave us excellent deals). And so it goes on.

No life is the same - you can still have a relatively good life in the UK on a relatively average salary without increasing your debt all the time. But you have to focus on the things that are important to you and cut back on other things. We had to go into debt for the purchase of our home and the refurbishment, but now the ongoing costs are easy to manage and our debts get quickly smaller month by month. Even 10% interest rate would be no problem for us.

LION

Respect

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HOLA446
We are also an average (London) couple with one baby and we get by quite easily.

Our net income is a little more than yours - about 4 k a month (plus about 20 k at Christmas in bonuses and pension contributions - so about 68 k net per year) but then we live in London and so it is compareable. London is more expensive.

LION

Perhaps you only know people like yourselves. But "nice life!". The most I have managed to squeak out of a job in the last 5 years has been £1000/month take home.

By my experience, you are rich buggahs.

You sound nice people. You have good principles and attitudes to money. But I don't think you realise just how wedged up you are.

Your £20k Xmas bonus alone is a yearly salary most people (including me) can only dream of. I recently relocated in the hope of a better life/job opportunities. I stepped into two temping agencies at first thinking "this'll bring in a few bob to keep the wolf from the door while I apply for actual jobs" - especially bearing in mind it is July and so most recruitment is on slowdown/hold until after summer hols etc ... only to be told that the average temping wage is £6/hour - and they laughed me out of the door when I dumbed it down and put £8/hour on the form. And that is after I'd sat their tests: 97wpm typing speed on an unfamiliar system; passed their advanced Word/Excel tests; they didn't set me shorthand tests but I bet I can still pull 120wpm out of the bag. For the average (or above average) person on the street, getting a well paid job is harder all the time as companies pay the least they can get away with. As a point of reference, I was temping in 1990 at £6.60/hour as a secretary "between jobs".

Which reminds me, I should look for a "proper job" today. I actually invested in my education last year and got myself a shiny bit of paper. Had to pay for it myself. Never had an employer who paid for training courses. And - not only did I have to pay pigging VAT on the course, taking the whole cost to about 1.5 months' takehome pay, but the day after I'd booked my annual leave and booked the course I got made redundant (no pay off of course, just a month's notice). So that was 25% of my takehome that year as I only worked for them 6 months and was lucky to have a run at a job that long. When I am not working I "muddle along" doing bits and bobs - usually can find somebody that wants a few rubbish things doing so long as you are self-employed (a pain because of the annual tax returns, but keeps me feeliing I am doing something rather than signing on to get only £57 JSA + council tax paid). I figure only a fool can't make £75/week somehow on average.

:)

Edited by ScaredEitherWay
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HOLA447
Reading some of the stories from you folks who have PhDs you

received some form of payment off your sponsoring company.

Spare a thought for some old gits we were only given a few

pounds but that was 1972. I think in those days it was the

prestige of doing research for large companies not the financial

benefits that most middle class students sought.

Ed

No, it was an EPSRC grant, no sponsoring company for me.

frug.

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HOLA448

Yeah LION, you are fairly minted even by London standards (median wage in London was 34k last time I checked). Nontheless you seem to spend it sensibly, so good luck to you!

Anyway, my own circumstances: I live in SE London, in a 3-bed terrace worth about 180-200k, rented for £950 a month, which seems to be the going rate round here. I take home about £1500 a month on average from my job as a bus driver- a bit more if there's any overtime going. My wife only works part time though while she does an MA in history (which I foolishly agreed to :rolleyes: ) so she only takes home about £480 a month. I have a £2k overdraft and I owe my mum £1650 which we borrowed to cover the moving costs when we moved in here.

I've been pretty mean recently, my only luxuries are about £10 on magazines a month, a night down the pub every couple of weeks or so (say £20 a time), and the odd DVD here or there. My wife probably spends a little more than that on her silly diet food, magazines, buying lunch instead of taking sandwiches etc. but not a great deal more (since I explained to her how things add up :ph34r: ). Phones and cable TV are £100 a month. Anyway, long story short, my wife's wages cover our day to day living costs like food and going down the pub, and also cover our mobile phones and gym membership (council, £23p/m each). My wages pay all the rest of the bills. Even so I would be reducing my overdraft by £200-300 a month, were it not for the fact that every month there's some exceptional cost to be splashed out on- in May it was new tyres and shocks for my motorbike, in June a booze cruise and some garden furniture so my wife could throw a party for my birthday (which again I was foolish to agree to), this month it was some spending money for the holiday she's gone on with her parents, next month it'll be my bike insurance renewal....and so on until Christmas, I expect.

So I'm basically standing still. Which isn't terrible, but I'd really like to pay off the overdraft (and my mum).

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HOLA449
Guest Skint Academic
No, it was an EPSRC grant, no sponsoring company for me.

Same here. Funding is far better when it is given by a funding body rather than a company as you are free to do pure research and the best thesis you can!

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HOLA4410
Perhaps you only know people like yourselves. But "nice life!". The most I have managed to squeak out of a job in the last 5 years has been £1000/month take home.

By my experience, you are rich buggahs.

You sound nice people. You have good principles and attitudes to money. But I don't think you realise just how wedged up you are.

Your £20k Xmas bonus alone is a yearly salary most people (including me) can only dream of.

:)

This is not the bonus but includes the private company pension contributions - the actual bonus is only a part of that. However, I know we earn slightly more than the average working London couple, but not that much more. I know quite a few couples/families who earn similar or more than we do and who are or have been in financial troubles - due to overspending, and only MEW bailed them out (so far). You are right, we do not feel wedged. In many respects our lifestyle that we can easily afford feels below average (car, clothes, going out etc.), but we are happy with that. I think the life style media and advertising promote is far to expensive for the average income. Unfortunately many people only realise this when it is too late. We refuse to buy consumables on debt and after having spent (or saved) the money for things that are important to us there is simply not much left (if any).

I wish you luck with your job search!

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HOLA4411
Yeah. We're in the 10th decile too. I don't really feel our household income is that spectacular though. I mean, we're only living in this little maisonette. I probably am taking it a bit far though, as I've been squirreling away close to 100% of my takehome over the last six months (wife's wage covers the bills usually) . Oh well, this time next year Rodders presumably.

All I can think about lately is finding ways to cut down our monthly spend -- I've been considering a no-spend month - no supermarket trips - no eating out - no impulse purchases, nothing, just consuming the food in our cupboards. I reckon we've got enough stocked, including base cooking materials to pull it off. Well, and probably purchases of a few lemons so we don't get scurvy - or perhaps we could go foraging for raspberries. Could take some persuading though. ;)

...I'm destined to become one of those rich tramps aren't I?

i'm going out foraging for blackberries in my street tonight, and i live in London! you can forage anywhere if you try!

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HOLA4412
i'm going out foraging for blackberries in my street tonight, and i live in London! you can forage anywhere if you try!

I've done that. Went for a walk once, come lunchtime, found some blackberries.... bloke I was with was a bit bemused. I think he thought we were having a pub lunch.

Location of blackberries was a bit nicer than yours: the sanddunes behind the beach at Perranporth, Cornwall. Hope no rambler's dog peed on them earlier!

:)

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HOLA4413
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HOLA4414
I've done that. Went for a walk once, come lunchtime, found some blackberries.... bloke I was with was a bit bemused. I think he thought we were having a pub lunch.

Location of blackberries was a bit nicer than yours: the sanddunes behind the beach at Perranporth, Cornwall. Hope no rambler's dog peed on them earlier!

:)

people just dont see them - i will have enough for a couple of pies later, as they're quite big bushes in my leafy corner of SE London - though not a patch on cornwall!

partner will think i'm nuts. but will enjoy the pies.

off home now - yum yum

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HOLA4415

Anyway, my own circumstances: I live in SE London, in a 3-bed terrace worth about 180-200k, rented for £950 a month, which seems to be the going rate round here. I take home about £1500 a month on average from my job as a bus driver-

£1500 a month as a bus driver....bloody hell!!

I know engineers at my place who spent years doing f***ing hard subjects like electronics at uni and they don't get paid much more than that......and don't get overtime as a perk.

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HOLA4416
I take home about £1500 a month on average from my job as a bus driver-

In Cornwall I knew a bus driver whose salary was about £12-13k/year.

I suggested bus driving to my housemate just 2 hours ago (unemployed) - in Cardiff - and she said they get about £16,500 here.

£1500 take home is about £24,000 so not too shabby

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HOLA4417
Anyway, my own circumstances: I live in SE London, in a 3-bed terrace worth about 180-200k, rented for £950 a month, which seems to be the going rate round here. I take home about £1500 a month on average from my job as a bus driver-

£1500 a month as a bus driver....bloody hell!!

I know engineers at my place who spent years doing f***ing hard subjects like electronics at uni and they don't get paid much more than that......and don't get overtime as a perk.

I remember the days when my Mum told me that if I didn't work hard at school I'd end up cleaning the streets for a living. I've now got a Masters degree and earn above national average wage, but I bet there are street cleaners who earn much more then me when they get their tax credits.

Stupid Mum!

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HOLA4418
i'm going out foraging for blackberries in my street tonight, and i live in London! you can forage anywhere if you try!

Bit early for blackberries though isn't it? Seems to be more around August time here I thought. Although I'm buggered if I can really remember when the things ripen since I haven't had my own garden for far too long. :unsure:

http://www.britishsummerfruits.co.uk/facts/raspberry.htm

http://www.britishsummerfruits.co.uk/facts/blackberry.htm

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HOLA4419
I remember the days when my Mum told me that if I didn't work hard at school I'd end up cleaning the streets for a living. I've now got a Masters degree and earn above national average wage, but I bet there are street cleaners who earn much more then me when they get their tax credits.

Stupid Mum!

haha sounds just like me, mum and dad begged me to go to further education and uni, i must do it else i will never get anywhere in life. so i did, left uni in 97 nice degree under my belt (engineering). then it came to finding a job, could not find anyone to employ me, wanted experience. so I took a temp job and kept looking, got nowhere. By now my old schoolfriends were earning twice as much as me as they had been in work for years. I got a permanent job in engineering in 2000 earning 15k a year, managed to get this up to 20k by the time i got laid off in 2003. tried to find another job in my profession but kept finding the jobs had mostly moved abroad (Mechanical Engineering)

I gave up on the industry and went to work in a call centre collecting debt (earning more money!!). i am now studying credit management as decided engineering is dead in the UK and the way forward is in other peoples debts.

Why oh why did I not leave at 16 and learn a trade!

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HOLA4420
I remember the days when my Mum told me that if I didn't work hard at school I'd end up cleaning the streets for a living.

My parents said Woolies sweets counter. Oh the joy... if I'd done that, I'd have been working for a large organisation, had a pension, chance to shine and progress.... supervisor of sweeties.... and maybe beyond. Regional Sweetie Manager.

Might have been on a good few bob now + free pick n mix and a pension

Parents ... pffftttt.... it's all so different now since the war when they were young.

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HOLA4421

Left school at 16, picked an employer I wanted to work for, my 1st job was making the tea, after that they provided all the training required free of charge, after that it was up to me, I was given the opportunity to go as far as I wanted and at the same time I was gaining experience along the way.

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HOLA4422
My wife and I have an average sized family - 2 kids living with us at home

We live in an average priced house - around £190k

We have an average household income - around £3k per month nett

We have a car each, a 5-year old Zafira on HP and a 10 year old Fiesta.

All in all, pretty average.

However, our mortgage is only £25k with 5 years left, we've no credit cards, and no other borrowing.

We get by OK - not a flash lifestyle and we don't manage to save much, but we live quite nicely.

The average family though, has a mortgage in excess of £100k, credit card debts of over £5k, and other debts to boot.

How the HELL do they survive? The sums just don't add up. Are average people really MEWing and racking up CC debt just to pay for everyday life, never mind the treats?

If so, this situation is even worse than I thought!

WOW, YOU ARE RICH - no I mean it!

Same circumstances, almost to the letter as you, except 3 years left on the mortgage and only 1 car and HALF YOUR STATED INCOME.....

Yes, things are tight. :(

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HOLA4423
We are also an average (London) couple with one baby and we get by quite easily.

Our net income is a little more than yours - about 4 k a month (plus about 20 k at Christmas in bonuses and pension contributions - so about 68 k net per year) but then we live in London and so it is compareable. London is more expensive.

...

LION

Our own situation is not that different. Me and the mrs earn about £90k between us which works out at about £5k per month. We bought a 3 bed house in north london last year with a mortgage of £250k. That works out at about £1500 per month on a repayment mortgage. We live relatively frugally... take sandwiches to work, rarely go to pubs, don't smoke and drive a 12 year old car, which allows us to make overpayments on the mortgage most months of at least £1500. We have a few luxuries (sky tv, decent food, a couple of short holidays a year) but nothing too excessive.

We realise we are lucky earning the sort of money we do, so are making the most of it by getting the mortgage down as quick as possible, so in a few years time the mrs won't have to work.

Edited by wishfulthinking
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HOLA4424
Our own situation is not that different. Me and the mrs take home about £90k between us which works out at about £5k per month. We bought a 3 bed house in north london last year with a mortgage of £250k. That works out at about £1500 per month on a repayment mortgage. We live relatively frugally... take sandwiches to work, rarely go to pubs, don't smoke and drive a 12 year old car, which allows us to make overpayments on the mortgage most months of at least £1500. We have a few luxuries (sky tv, decent food, a couple of short holidays a year) but nothing too excessive.

We realise we are lucky earning the sort of money we do, so are making the most of it by getting the mortgage down as quick as possible, so in a few years time the mrs won't have to work.

All that money and you can't add up....

Take home £90k ....

12 months ....

£7.5k/month where I come from.

Now, 2 salaries grossing £90k would give a take-home of £5,300 between you ... maybe you did a typo.

Edited by ScaredEitherWay
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HOLA4425
Yes, been there myself plenty of times. Mainly because my few friends are scattered around the country. There's this idea that if we aren't all out having sex, being in a partnership or having friends that we're somehow missing out. When in reality people just end up getting into relationships by default with people they don't love, having meaningless sex and eating out or drinking in pubs and getting bored. It's far better to have high standards, take your time and wait for the right people to come along. Even if that means being alone for a while. That way you get to spend more time with other people with high standards who won't try and get you to subsidise them.

My favourite way of living is in a loving relationship - it suits me, like it does most people.

Failing that, I'd definitely go for the drinking in pubs and lots of meaningless sex that you decry over the sad miserable existance that you and a worrying number of contributors to this forum appear to lead.

Get a life, man!!!

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