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Yorkshire Golden Triangle - Harrogate & Around


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Just see a jump in number of SSTC but completitions and registered transactions on Rightmove and Land Reg……nope.

Seriously don’t believe the HG hype, the majority of feckers are on the same salaries with the same job concerns as folk in West Yorks.

Let the greedy and feckless have their last fill of the pyramid pie (that is if they actually do compete!) but the HG market is only heading one way over the next 2-3 years.

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Not in my experience.

I wish it weren't the case, but it is. We went to see a property in Harrogate yesterday off Leeds Road - there were 4 couples looking at it; an offer has already gone in and, testing the water, it's only just below asking price by the sounds of it. Seriously, Harrogate IS partying like it's 2007.... and I'm not happy.

I'm thinking we will be sticking this out by default and not buying because there just aren't the properties about... hopefully as BNW says, 2-3 years and we'll all be laughing on this side of the fence.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I was recently talking to a family friend who works as a conveyancing solicitor in Harrogate, well used to be, I hadn't realised this but along with apparently many others in the same line of work she was laid off towards the end of last year/beginning of this one just because literally nothing was selling; there was no work for them to do. I suppose I hadn't realised that things had got this bad.

She's not close enough to things now to be able to say whether there's been a recovery of any sort [she's certainly not been sounded out about a return to her old job or anything like that] but obviously confirms that the constant ramping in the Harrogate Advertiser is in the main a pack of lies.

Edited by the flying pig
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I was recently talking to a family friend who works as a conveyancing solicitor in Harrogate, well used to be, I hadn't realised this but along with apparently many others in the same line of work she was laid off towards the end of last year/beginning of this one just because literally nothing was selling; there was no work for them to do. I suppose I hadn't realised that things had got this bad.

She's not close enough to things now to be able to say whether there's been a recovery of any sort [she's certainly not been sounded out about a return to her old job or anything like that] but obviously confirms that the constant ramping in the Harrogate Advertiser is in the main a pack of lies.

Transaction levels certainly bear testimant to that but the media don't like talking about that.

Might be good for a laugh writing in and telling them to get property bee, the market may appear to be picking up with more STTCs but a lot of these are coming back onto the market. The rest of the houses are seeing decent drops and a touch of value..............when looking from a 2006/7 perspective!

Still another 20% to go methinks!

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  • 1 month later...

still so few transactions in the area that clutching at straws when trying to work out what's going on, but i did notice this as an interesting example of a house that sold at peak and also re-sold this summer.

LINK

number 42 was sold in oct 07 and then again in july 09, price fall of £317k to £250k, 20-odd percent, a decent fall even if it does still look noticably overpriced, hopefully this will start to signify that a house has to be genuinely quite nice to sneak into the £250k+ stamp duty band... nowt wrong [at all] with dragon avenue, and this place has 4 bedrooms/is end of terrace i think, but i think we know roughly what sort of jobs the people who live on that street do...how could they possibly afford to spend so much?

i pity the three people who paid £320k+ on this street in 2007, not because they've been unlucky but rather because they are clearly foolish beyond any normal comprehension.

Edited by the flying pig
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still so few transactions in the area that clutching at straws when trying to work out what's going on, but i did notice this as an interesting example of a house that sold at peak and also re-sold this summer.

LINK

number 42 was sold in oct 07 and then again in july 09, price fall of £317k to £250k, 20-odd percent, a decent fall even if it does still look noticably overpriced, hopefully this will start to signify that a house has to be genuinely quite nice to sneak into the £250k+ stamp duty band... nowt wrong [at all] with dragon avenue, and this place has 4 bedrooms/is end of terrace i think, but i think we know roughly what sort of jobs the people who live on that street do...how could they possibly afford to spend so much?

i pity the three people who paid £320k+ on this street in 2007, not because they've been unlucky but rather because they are clearly foolish beyond any normal comprehension.

Thanks for the link, the flying pig. Also interesting to see that the same house sold for £123,000 in 2001. From £123K to £317K in the space of 6 years. I wonder how much salaries increased during the same period. No wonder we're in such a mess.

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Thanks for the link, the flying pig. Also interesting to see that the same house sold for £123,000 in 2001. From £123K to £317K in the space of 6 years. I wonder how much salaries increased during the same period. No wonder we're in such a mess.

average wages did go up by quite a bit in that period, by about £100 a week/£5k a year on average, clearly more than enough to justify an extra £193k on the price of a house...

it's bizarre, really, i would quite like to speak to the person who decided to pay £317k for that place, i wonder how they afforded it, let's say they had maybe £100k deposit from one or more of savings, equity on a previous house, & maybe an inheritance or something, plus another £10k stashed away for stamp duty of course, leaving them to borrow £217k... might it have been bought by a couple earning, say, £60k between them? so they had to borrow a little over 3.5 times joint salary?

insanity.

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Insanity is the word. Harrogate house prices are being kept high, I'm convinced, due to the lack of properties on the market. It's a simple supply/demand thing. There is hardly anything in the 3-bed sector, for instance, to the south or west of the town, and I think that's largely because of the school thing.

I dunno, I just think people are fearful of putting their house on the market because of uncertainty, which bizarrely keeps the prices inordinately high.

Although having said that, I noted a slight increase in the number of properties in the daily Globrix email of late.

I think it's going to take big economic downward jolt to get house prices moving downward again around this way. Which may well happen, of course. That and interest rates going bananas...

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Insanity is the word. Harrogate house prices are being kept high, I'm convinced, due to the lack of properties on the market. It's a simple supply/demand thing. There is hardly anything in the 3-bed sector, for instance, to the south or west of the town, and I think that's largely because of the school thing...

a 'school' argument would make no sense at all for harrogate. harrogate secondary schools do not have geographic catchment areas. they are all in the centre/south of town and where a child lives within harrogate is immaterial for his or her school application.

the better southern & central parts of harrogate are expensive simply because they are much nicer. they never have been massively affordable and never will be.

what i can't understand, though, is that even the traditionally cheaper parts have become very expensive. but the gap between seller aspirations and actual sold prices is massive. this place is a particular favourite of mine... it's got a 'new home' banner on it on rightmove despite having been up for sale for at least a year and a half, it's an entirely unremarkable 4 bed house [well, you could argue that it was remarkably shit, with two of the four bedrooms being miniscule kids' sizes, a small non-dining kitchen, but, bizarrely and most significantly, kitchen/living room areas both on the first floor rather than ground {no, me neither}], in jennyfields, and listed at "Offers in Excess of £300,000" having previously been listed at a literally pathetic price that i think may have been around £350k or more. what planet do these wannabe vendors live on?

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what i can't understand, though, is that even the traditionally cheaper parts have become very expensive. but the gap between seller aspirations and actual sold prices is massive.

There's definitely a gap, in Harrogate, of houses that sell pretty quickly, and those that don't. The traditionally cheaper parts have to drop to sell. Others, we've seen of late, tend to go within the first few days, if they're in a good spot.

Notice yet another EA has sprung up in Harrogate - Hopkinson? Strange, considering that last year, Bairstow and Your Move left the market... yet since then, this one and Myrings (as opposed to Myring Heward) have joined in. Will be interesting to see how the new ones are getting on. I'd have thought there were enough EAs in Harrogate. (A quick check on Globrix - filter by 'estate agent' on the LHS - shows the list of existing agents.)

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...Notice yet another EA has sprung up in Harrogate - Hopkinson? Strange, considering that last year, Bairstow and Your Move left the market... yet since then, this one and Myrings (as opposed to Myring Heward) have joined in. Will be interesting to see how the new ones are getting on. I'd have thought there were enough EAs in Harrogate. (A quick check on Globrix - filter by 'estate agent' on the LHS - shows the list of existing agents.)

we can never have too many estate agents. they are senior grease monkeys in the engine room of our glorious economy, i.e. the 'housing market'.

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we can never have too many estate agents. they are senior grease monkeys in the engine room of our glorious economy, i.e. the 'housing market'.

Had an interesting chat with an estate agent today. Within the same agency, I've had the story that 'the market has gone up significantly in the last 6 months' and 'You know that prices haven't gone up recently, they've been flat... I think we're going to see a period of house prices dropping again in the next few months as people need to pay bills, money is short etc...' - differing views depending upon who you speak to (i.e. salesman vs. person willing to divulge a little more).

I had noticed, as per previous email, that the number of properties coming onto the market has picked up in the last two weeks - though just not in the area we were looking at. I'm still trying to hold my horses on this one. Something feels like it's going to drop again after Christmas. There were a few polls (not considering impartiality here) that suggested folk were looking at increases in prices next year; there seems to be a little less confidence again now, according to the pollsters, and I'm not sure what's caused the change.

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this place is a particular favourite of mine... it's got a 'new home' banner on it on rightmove despite having been up for sale for at least a year and a half, it's an entirely unremarkable 4 bed house [well, you could argue that it was remarkably shit, with two of the four bedrooms being miniscule kids' sizes, a small non-dining kitchen, but, bizarrely and most significantly, kitchen/living room areas both on the first floor rather than ground {no, me neither}], in jennyfields, and listed at "Offers in Excess of £300,000" having previously been listed at a literally pathetic price that i think may have been around £350k or more. what planet do these wannabe vendors live on?

Property Bee says it started at £369,950

10 August 2009 Price changed: from '£335,000' to 'Offers in Excess of £300,000'

05 June 2009 Price changed: from '£350,000' to '£335,000'

07 October 2008 Price changed: from 'Offers in Excess of £360,000' to '£350,000'

03 May 2008 Price changed: from '£369,950' to 'Offers in Excess of £360,000'

02 March 2008 Initial entry found.

Edited by Tattoo'd Lady
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I think that place conforms to the rule. Houses in Harrogate sell if they're in the highly desired areas, have decent bedroom sizes and a bit of garden space. If they don't have these they take an age to sell. If they do, they're snapped up.

Nah - it's just about the price, isn't it? There'll always be a market for houses in less good areas & so on if the price is right as well as posh ones, just as there'll always be a market for both ford fiestas and audi A8s... everyone would obviously prefer the nicer car if they had the budget, but the fact is that most people don't...

This house is in very good repair and has lots of living space, but the initial price tag of £370k was mind-numbingly delusional. by way of a comparator there's a 4-bed detached house on walton park listed for £399 that's been unsold for a year and a half. not only is it in an immeasurably superior area but it's far roomier, with a diner kitchen that's, funnily enough, on the ground floor. the jennyfields place above could be a perfectly good home for a young family but it will literally never sell if the price doesn't reflect its quality, including the strange issue with upside-down layout & the fact that the "local facilities" the EA boasts about [which aren't especially close tbh] are slap in the middle of a council estate, with all that entails. a couple of years ago i casually asked a cashier in the co-op there if they sold skimmed milk and she looked at me in a manner i'd expect if i'd told her i was a paedophile. but i reckon it would have sold quite quickly when initially listed in summer 2008 if they'd priced it just below the £250k stamp duty threshold.

Edited by the flying pig
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This house is in very good repair and has lots of living space, but the initial price tag of £370k was mind-numbingly delusional. by way of a comparator there's a 4-bed detached house on walton park listed for £399 that's been unsold for a year and a half. not only is it in an immeasurably superior area but it's far roomier, with a diner kitchen that's, funnily enough, on the ground floor.

The Walton Park house started at £450k in Feb 2008 - went done to £399 in May 2009 but still no joy for the sellers

04 May 2009 Price changed: from 'Guide Price £430,000' to '£399,950'

08 August 2008 Price changed: from 'Offers in Region of £440,000' to 'Guide Price £430,000'

23 March 2008 Price changed: from 'Offers in Region of £450,000' to 'Offers in Region of £440,000'

21 February 2008 Initial entry found

We could start a thread for "the most overpriced house in Harrogate" - I've seen a few contenders!

Edited by Tattoo'd Lady
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...We could start a thread for "the most overpriced house in Harrogate" - I've seen a few contenders!

i'm not sure that anything could beat £370k for that saltergate drive place. although to be fair there's a two bedroomed bungalow on the same street, which, judging by the [very sparse, with no floorplan] photos on the rightmove website is in a noticably below average state of decoration, that's been up for sale with no reduction for a year and a half for £250k [roughly the going rate for a four-bed place in similar condition at the peak of the boom more or less].

the price of the walton park is perhaps something of a hangover from the boom, and would be pretty astonishing to, say, a visitor from overseas, but i can almost understand it in a way, you know, it is an upmarket part of town and i could just about imagine someone with, say, a £60-£70k job being sort of content to live there and commute to and from leeds [although someone with an equivalent job would clearly have been able to afford much better a decade ago], so the price would 'only' be about 6-7 times income... it's daft, bubble-daft, but not laugh-out-loud silly like the other place for £370k, and not really any more daft than most house prices in the country really...

Edited by the flying pig
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BNW - I agree; I'm about a half-mile away from you and there is a scary lack of houses actually on the market at the moment. The market is bizarrely stuck between a set of houses that aren't selling at all, and those that are snapped up within a week. If something doesn't sell within the week, it's on for a while - but those on for a while are the minority.

There's also a severe lack of 3 bed semi or detached between 250 & 350k.... which used to be the usual price.

My thoughts are that the market will continue in this state until after Christmas, when there will be a chunk of properties coming onto the market when folk start getting divorced again.

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Unnerving amount of SSTCs round my neck of harrogate - round Leeds road Gladstone street, russell street, in the 220-180k market.

Yes they are not sold until completition but nonetheless it has certainly 'kicked off' with some properties being on for a week if that.

Will be very interesting to see if they complete but we are now seeing the result of QE, record low IRs and spin.

Will this be the case till past the next GE? The bull-trap is alive and kicking in HG

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Hmm interesting on Globrix today - there are a bunch of properties on with 'Choices Property Acquisitions', someone I'd not heard of before. They're on for auction. Checking their website, it shows they're in Surrey. Which is a strange twist.

I'm wondering/hoping if this is the start of repo properties being dumped on the market? Might just be a quirk of timing, but putting a number on at the same time seems a bit peculiar. And the location of them.

Also interestingly is that, according to Globrix, the median house price listing between Aug and Sept for HG2 is 325k down to 279k. It's not a large sample size, but there were more going on the market in September. HG2 is a decent area, so I'm hoping that this may be a good sign.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Update

After tinkering with changing the description (!!!), price drop for the crazily priced terrace....Oh and a few new shots....that'll work ;)

230k to 220k

New Price

Maybe watching Merryn has got them thinking.

A follow up to the Cornation Avenue house whihc has now hit the Land Registry.

Land Registry update:

5 Coronation Avenue sold on 28th August for £194,000 - 15.7% reduction from Jan 2009 asking price.

So its history was

28 August 2008 - sold on Land registry for £194,000

09 August 2009 Price changed: from '£220,000' to '£210,000'

Status changed: from 'Sold STC' to 'Available' [Found by n/a]

18 June 2009 Status changed: from 'Available' to 'Sold STC'

13 May 2009 Price changed: from '£230,000' to '£220,000'

27 January 2009 Initial entry found

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A follow up to the Cornation Avenue house whihc has now hit the Land Registry.

Land Registry update:

5 Coronation Avenue sold on 28th August for £194,000 - 15.7% reduction from Jan 2009 asking price.

So its history was

28 August 2008 - sold on Land registry for £194,000

09 August 2009 Price changed: from '£220,000' to '£210,000'

Status changed: from 'Sold STC' to 'Available' [Found by n/a]

18 June 2009 Status changed: from 'Available' to 'Sold STC'

13 May 2009 Price changed: from '£230,000' to '£220,000'

27 January 2009 Initial entry found

Obviously that type of drop is not indicative of resurgent prices over the last 6 months - something ain't right!

Great find. Still not up on Rightmove's sold price's section. There was me thinking it had gone for 210k!

Shows the reality of all these sstc in the area as being quite different than all the good folk of HG would believe. There are about 5 or 6 in the streets around here that are sstc but they are all moving to 8 weeks + and still no transactions.

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  • 3 weeks later...

If you ever needed an example of why SSTC does not mean SOLD look at this:

12 Hill Rise Avenue, Harrogate

07-Aug-09 - on the market (Verity Frearson) at £350,000.

19-Aug-09 - SSTC

09-Sep-09 - Available again

16-Sep-09 - SSTC

14-Oct-09 - Available once again

24-Oct-09 - SSTC

20-Nov-09 - Available yet again

26-Nov-09 - SSTC

No wonder Estate Agents average sales per month are up - this one has sold 4 times!!!

I feel for the vendors - either very unlucky (or does the something crop up in surveys / conveyancing each time?)

(by the way as I mentioned in a previous post - Verity Frearson's property listings evade the full Property Bee history as they re-list the property each time it is made available. However my trusty spreadsheet tracker cannot be fooled!)

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