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The Soup Dragon

Saidia - The Construction Companies

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Everybody that has researched Saidia will realise the the main developers / builders are Fadesa. What surprised me recently was that one or two that reserved over a year ago were of the opinion that Superior and LJDF products would all be built by Fadesa too. I'd be interested to hear what you had thought.

My understanding from when I investigated this over a year ago was that Fadesa would only be building the RT2 apartments, but that all other LJDF and Superior products would be built by other builders. This is still my understanding. I can also recall hearing that Property Logic gained all bar their original two after the King had visited and kicked up a storm over Fadesa being behind schedule on his flagship Azzure project. Part of Fadesa's response was to sell a further 9 units to Property Logic, enabling them to focus more on a few projects and help try get Saidia back on schedule. (I'm not saying Saidia is on schedule to finish for 2010, but I suspect completion would be further out had these plots not been sold to another developer.)

Does my understanding meet with yours? I know others I have discussed this with would be interested to know if you have anything in your contracts saying who the builders (not developers) will be.

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Soup, I have always understood Fadesa to be the builders. This does'nt concern me at all as Im sure PL will not accept second best as this would tanish thier (PLs) carefuly constructed image as developers which would impact on thier future developments such as those planned for Brazil.

In addition Im hearing that the Fadesa built villas which are now nearing build completion are of a good standard and the current photos shown on Property showrooms and Superiors sites (building progress sections) are encouraging despite not being to my taste.

PL have always plastered the phrase 'built to European standards' all over thier documentation. Whilst not a cast iron contractual guarantee, it is never the less an expectation of us buyers and we are'nt the type to be rolled over easily.

Furthermore the Kings reputation will be tarnished should his pet project be undermined by poor quality products and I somehow just cant see this happenning.

As ever no absolute guarantees but sound enough me thinks.

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....... after the King had visited and kicked up a storm over Fadesa being behind schedule on his flagship Azzure project. .......

Does my understanding meet with yours? I know others I have discussed this with would be interested to know if you have anything in your contracts saying who the builders (not developers) will be.

Don't know where you are getting your feed of B$ but I have it on VERY strong word (I cannot say ;) ) that in fact the King has NEVER set foot in Saidia.......

Edited by BigLog

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Don't know where you are getting your feed of B$ but I have it on VERY strong word (I cannot say ;) ) that in fact the King has NEVER set foot in Saidia.......

Have you seen how many posters claim they have 'insider' ;) knowledge about forthcomming Bank Of England decisions.

:blink:

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Have you seen how many posters claim they have 'insider' ;) knowledge about forthcomming Bank Of England decisions.

:blink:

Not nearly as many as the internet fantasists who post heavily (4000 on this website alone) on a multitude of fora claiming they are experts on countries they have never ever visited (and probably never will) .....

;)

Edited by BigLog

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Not nearly as many as the internet fantasists who post heavily (4000 on this website alone) on a multitude of fora claiming they are experts on countries they have never ever visited (and probably never will) .....

;)

Hey Im clearly no expert on Morocco, but I feel comfortable with Saidia as an investment given it's uniqueness and very low price point.

I think its a mistake to make broad brush assumptions when investing. Better to conmpare actual products.

I recognise many feel the prices are too high and I understand why they feel this, however I'm very confident that the prices are low.

Its all down to the end user experience. Sure holiday makers can use one of the many Spannish or Portugese golf resorts but the point is Saidia is very much a one off in terms of the breath and depth of on - site leisure facilities. Thats where the 'value added' factor will come and will result in robust rents and capital growth.

As for some investors withdrawing - this is natural especially with investing abroad (I see this in my German adventures also). People end up focusing on the negatives and can be worn down by worry so would rather not have these feelings pervaiding thier mind. Very understandable, very normal.

Again it is this fear of the unknown and perhaps inability to envisage the end result and how the delivered product will sit comparitive to other developments in Spain and Portugal that will deter many during the build phase.

This fear is the very tool of the trade that allows investors to get in under - value. Without fear there is no investment as developers will attain much higher prices (as we see now in Spain).

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Dogbox. There was never anything wrong with the build quality of the Fadesa properties (to the best of my knowledge.) The recently completed villas are much the same as those completed a year ago. (Build looked complete in July'06 for some villas near the Fadesa office.)

I imagine PL will have plastered 'Built to European strandard' over their documentation as they hadn't signed up a builder (other than RT2 it wouldn't be Fadesa.) When I was there last year the PL representative I met (not Sean) explaied that they were in negotiations with their preferred builder for VVT8. He wouldn't name the builder, but said that the speed that builder had built a recent high quality development in Marrakesh was impressive. It is possible that builders have been lined up, I'm just assuming they haven't as I think we would have heard something. RT7 had planning permision some time ago and, as I understand it, building has yet to commence. (Work had been done to level the site in preparation for planning permission being granted, but I don't think any further work has taken place.)

If the information I got sime time ago is correct then PL were looking at getting a bank guarantee. They would not have considered this if Fadesa were building all PL properties.

BigLog. The King was in Saidia when I was there. Builders and sales people alike went down to the beach to watch him jetski. (I was ushered out of the Fadesa office as nobody was staying in the office when the King, and descendant of a prophet, was about.) This occured the a day or two before the Germany vs Portugal 3rd and 4th place play off in the World Cup. I believe the King was in Saidia almost once a fortnight over a period from early June to early August in 2006.

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BigLog. The King was in Saidia when I was there. Builders and sales people alike went down to the beach to watch him jetski. (I was ushered out of the Fadesa office as nobody was staying in the office when the King, and descendant of a prophet, was about.) This occured the a day or two before the Germany vs Portugal 3rd and 4th place play off in the World Cup. I believe the King was in Saidia almost once a fortnight over a period from early June to early August in 2006.

So he was Jetskiing - was he actually inland ??

And you 'believe' he was 'in' Saidia (again, inland and not out at Sea) ??

Sorry, reading between your lines, it seems that maybe my contact's information seems plausible.

Anyway, good luck with your investment.

Edited by BigLog

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He launched his jetski a few hundred yards to the West of the marina. His car was parked nearby - along with those of the convoy.

Soup Dragon, I enjoy your posts and find you to be one of the 'most balanced' posters on this site. Is it true however, that you are in the process of trying to pull out of your Saidia investment? I heard that from an agent today, who was trying to convince me into buying in another part of Morocco. This agent was somewhat despondent about Saidia as a whole, and said that even the most rampant investors were now pulling out.

Is their any truth in this rumour? Biglog, I know this post will please you greatly, however I am prepared to withstand your barage of abuse!!

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Soup Dragon, I enjoy your posts and find you to be one of the 'most balanced' posters on this site. Is it true however, that you are in the process of trying to pull out of your Saidia investment? I heard that from an agent today, who was trying to convince me into buying in another part of Morocco. This agent was somewhat despondent about Saidia as a whole, and said that even the most rampant investors were now pulling out.

Is their any truth in this rumour? Biglog, I know this post will please you greatly, however I am prepared to withstand your barage of abuse!!

Hey, I'm really a nice guy, trust me !!

I take *no* pleasure from hearing of people being suckered into a hyped up investment.

If the Hypers however are the ones we are talking about getting burnt - then hey, :lol:

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Soup Dragon, I enjoy your posts and find you to be one of the 'most balanced' posters on this site. Is it true however, that you are in the process of trying to pull out of your Saidia investment? I heard that from an agent today, who was trying to convince me into buying in another part of Morocco. This agent was somewhat despondent about Saidia as a whole, and said that even the most rampant investors were now pulling out.

Is their any truth in this rumour? Biglog, I know this post will please you greatly, however I am prepared to withstand your barage of abuse!!

Am I reading this right Nitrode?

You heard from an agent that Soup Dragon was pulling out? I mean is that his real name? Mr Soup Dragon? And if it is, should an agent be disclosing what clients are or are not doing with their investments?

On the other point about rampant investors pulling out. Who knows, but I would love to know who they are actually selling out too? There is no real secondary market with just a patch of desert and a few buildings etc

Have you kept your property?

Lastly, if we have agreed on here not to believe agent ramping I suspect we should follow the same advice and not believe the opposite when we hear of 'despondent agents'.

Anyway that is by the by, I would love to chat to this agent, please supply name and number.

Thanking you in advance.

Edited by euroscooby

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There is something I have taken issue with that needs resolved. That said, I was still surprised to read your post Nitrode.

I hope you’ll understand that I want to keep the issue close to my chest.

I’m not sure of the route the information has taken to reach you, but I can say that the message has probably lost accuracy each step of the way. (Information that has reached you isn’t particularly accurate.)

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There is something I have taken issue with that needs resolved. That said, I was still surprised to read your post Nitrode.

I hope you’ll understand that I want to keep the issue close to my chest.

I’m not sure of the route the information has taken to reach you, but I can say that the message has probably lost accuracy each step of the way. (Information that has reached you isn’t particularly accurate.)

I believe the agent in question, to be not too reliable with his information. I am unaware of your name, however, the agent in question just said he 'heard through the grapevine' that Soup Dragon was pulling out of his/her purchase, and that this would perhaps cause a 'stir' amongst the forums!

The 'said agent' was trying to dismiss Saidia as being a good investment opportunity, and obviously would/will use anything possible to discredit it. I know from your posts that you have been behind this resort from the outset, so it did un-nerve me slightly when I heard that you were possibly pulling out. Everyone has their own agenda and reasons for their actions, however you seem a decent person so if there is anything we need to know....

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I believe the agent in question, to be not too reliable with his information. I am unaware of your name, however, the agent in question just said he 'heard through the grapevine' that Soup Dragon was pulling out of his/her purchase, and that this would perhaps cause a 'stir' amongst the forums!

The 'said agent' was trying to dismiss Saidia as being a good investment opportunity, and obviously would/will use anything possible to discredit it. I know from your posts that you have been behind this resort from the outset, so it did un-nerve me slightly when I heard that you were possibly pulling out. Everyone has their own agenda and reasons for their actions, however you seem a decent person so if there is anything we need to know....

Is this guy Soup Dragon actually Warren Buffet?

If not, who cares if he pulls in or out of Saidia or any other place.

It is quite sad that fools like Dogbox managed to drag people into investing in unknown places and now they probably lough their way to the bank...

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I believe the agent in question, to be not too reliable with his information. I am unaware of your name, however, the agent in question just said he 'heard through the grapevine' that Soup Dragon was pulling out of his/her purchase, and that this would perhaps cause a 'stir' amongst the forums!

The 'said agent' was trying to dismiss Saidia as being a good investment opportunity, and obviously would/will use anything possible to discredit it. I know from your posts that you have been behind this resort from the outset, so it did un-nerve me slightly when I heard that you were possibly pulling out. Everyone has their own agenda and reasons for their actions, however you seem a decent person so if there is anything we need to know....

Nitrode. You forgot to supply the name of this agent. It will help all forumites to know so we can at least not use this unreliable outfit.

many thanks

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Agents can be an unscrupulous bunch, here's an example;

Propertyshowrooms hyped Saidia a great deal in 2006 yet when I called them recently to find out how things were going they had moved onto hyping Brazil and gave the impression Saidia had virtualy never existed! Such a short term vulture attitude does such companies great harm.

Agents need to recognise that thier longevity will be impaired if they act in this short term manner.

Catara is correct about hyping but I guess we must expect hype, afterall most TV progs dont live up to the hype. Also I bought a much hyped WII system and found it an incredible let down. Life is full of hype.

None of this deters me however, its part and parcel. Investors in anything new naturaly get nervous and sometimes want to bailout. How many times have we all had people say "if only Id kept my flat in 1997 instead of selling it when I moved up, but at the time I felt too nervous".

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Also Ive come to the conclusion that these 'jack of trades' agents that deal with multiple countires are a shower. Forever moving on to the next venture so they never get a real grasp on a market.

I think those that focus on just one nation are the way to go.

I was contacted by a frim called Knight Knox recently and thier website is very impressive as they give the impression of being experts in just about every nation. In reality I found they had limited knowledge on individual markets - avoid.

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I am amazed that an agent has mentioned the name of another investor in such a way. Nitrode, if you do mention the name of the agent on here, it could have a serious affect on their business, so I'd be a bit careful. I am unconnected. Like a few others on here, I know Soup Dragon personally and, given his extremely professional approach on this forum and others, it would seem unfair to utilise this spurious information in such a way. Just my opinion.

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A

Propertyshowrooms hyped Saidia a great deal in 2006 yet when I called them recently to find out how things were going they had moved onto hyping Brazil and gave the impression Saidia had virtualy never existed! Such a short term vulture attitude does such companies great harm.

They are a business, they want to make money not to create money for their costumers.

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Also Ive come to the conclusion that these 'jack of trades' agents that deal with multiple countires are a shower. Forever moving on to the next venture so they never get a real grasp on a market.

I think those that focus on just one nation are the way to go.

I was contacted by a frim called Knight Knox recently and thier website is very impressive as they give the impression of being experts in just about every nation. In reality I found they had limited knowledge on individual markets - avoid.

You can add:

- International HOrizons

- International Property Link

- La Luz

and many, many others.

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Agents can be an unscrupulous bunch, here's an example;

Propertyshowrooms hyped Saidia a great deal in 2006 yet when I called them recently to find out how things were going they had moved onto hyping Brazil and gave the impression Saidia had virtualy never existed! Such a short term vulture attitude does such companies great harm.

Agents need to recognise that thier longevity will be impaired if they act in this short term manner.

Catara is correct about hyping but I guess we must expect hype, afterall most TV progs dont live up to the hype. Also I bought a much hyped WII system and found it an incredible let down. Life is full of hype.

None of this deters me however, its part and parcel. Investors in anything new naturaly get nervous and sometimes want to bailout. How many times have we all had people say "if only Id kept my flat in 1997 instead of selling it when I moved up, but at the time I felt too nervous".

But Dogbox, "Hyper" and "Agent" are the two nouns most commonly used to describe YOU ! So isn't this a case of the Pot calling the Kettle Black ??

Ditto re your comment regarding Jack of all trades and their (note e before i in the word their, Dogbox ;) ) dealing with more than one country.

:P

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I am amazed that an agent has mentioned the name of another investor in such a way. Nitrode, if you do mention the name of the agent on here, it could have a serious affect on their business, so I'd be a bit careful. I am unconnected. Like a few others on here, I know Soup Dragon personally and, given his extremely professional approach on this forum and others, it would seem unfair to utilise this spurious information in such a way. Just my opinion.

I realise the consequences of name dropping on this forum, however, I was just re-itterating what was said to me by this agent in question. I can stress however, that they did not divulge any personal information (ie name etc) with regards to The Soup Dragon; it was just put in conversation to 'watch this space' as even the most avid followers of Saidia were now dropping like flies. It was not my intention utilise this information for my own gain, please be assured of that.

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Nitrode. Tried contacting you, but error message suggested your PM facilities aren’t enabled. I’d be interested to hear anything else you are willing to share on what the agent said (on the phone, not over the internet.) If you are happy to get in touch then you could either contact the administrator here to ask that your PM facilities be enabled, or send me a PM through the Total Property Forum. (I go by the same user name there.)

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I realise the consequences of name dropping on this forum, however, I was just re-itterating what was said to me by this agent in question. I can stress however, that they did not divulge any personal information (ie name etc) with regards to The Soup Dragon; it was just put in conversation to 'watch this space' as even the most avid followers of Saidia were now dropping like flies. It was not my intention utilise this information for my own gain, please be assured of that.

It's one thing to quote what someone has publicly posted on a forum, albeit anonymously, but professional agents should not divulge ANY personal information they are privy to, no matter how inconsequential it may appear to be. Unprofessional agents should be named and shamed as we need to stop such unscrupulous practices. The comment was obviously made for personal gain in hyping up another development.

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