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dnd

Saving? - A Waste Of Time?

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http://goldnews.bullionvault.com/inflation...ganda_070420072

The entire fiat monetary system is immoral and should be illegal. The central banks counterfeit money. They then loan this newly created money into various accounts of private banks. These private banks, through fractional reserve banking laws, then commit fraud by lending out more money than they have. These activities amount to no less than a hidden form of theft on the citizens. Every unit of currency created by the central bank dilutes the value of the currency already in circulation.

Anybody who believes that his or her 4% savings account is staying ahead of inflation is ill-informed. Central banks of the world's major industrialized western nations have been increasing the amount of money in circulation by 8% or more every year. Thus in this example, the holder of the savings account would be losing at least 4% of their purchasing power every year.

Edited by dnd

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What's the alternative? If I keep my money in a shoe-box under the bed, then I'd be losing 8%! ;)

usually assets such as property and gold that retain the 'value' of what you paid for them and can be sold at a later date

obviously property is an overpriced asset atm as everybody has been throwing their increasingly worthless cash at it

basically you don't want to be holding onto cash longterm

i think the article sums up a lot of issues around fiat currencies/central banks in a succinct way

Edited by dnd

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Guest muttley

Of course if you'd bought gold 12 months ago you would be showing a paltry 2.89% profit. If you'd bought 30 days ago you'd be showing a 2.44% loss (source kitco.com).

This "hold nothing but gold" theory only seems to work with the end of fiat currency. That would represent the end of capitalism, in which case you'd be better off buying a shotgun.

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your looking at gold short term

one of the main reasons gold maintains it's 'value' in the face of central bank manipulation is the fundemental concept that there is finite gold supply and potentially infinate fiat supply

it's investor belief that gold is undervalued against increasingly worthless fiat

fiat won't die - it'll change - but gold will always be finite

Edited by dnd

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Guest muttley
it's investor belief that gold is undervalued against increasingly worthless fiat

It's speculators believe that gold is undervalued against increasingly worthless fiat.

Long term gold can only keep up with inflation. In fact it ought to underperform against inflation, as people are still mining it.

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It's speculators believe that gold is undervalued against increasingly worthless fiat.

Long term gold can only keep up with inflation. In fact it ought to underperform against inflation, as people are still mining it.

do you also catagorise equity/property investors as 'speculators' - does anybody care? ;)

btw have you seen gold mining yields recently?

fiat inflation/central bank gold price supression is affecting the cost/benefit of getting this stuff out of the ground ie labour, equipment costs

Edited by dnd

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Guest muttley

It's possible to speculate or invest in property and equities, but I believe buying gold is speculating because gold doesn't do anything.

btw have you seen gold mining yields recently?

Mining stock yields are traditionally low, but still infinitely better than gold.

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I though this thread needed a bit of perspective. So the answer to your thread title is:

No, saving is not a waste of time.

However I think the thread is actually asking whether buying gold is better than keeping your money in cash. Well, as Muttley said, of late it hasn't been, but as for the future..? That's called speculation.

The system may be broken, but it's all we have to play with unless a monetary revolution group gains mass-support. Which seems unlikely as trying to do that normally ends up with a high-velocity sniper round through your noggin.

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I though this thread needed a bit of perspective. So the answer to your thread title is:

No, saving is not a waste of time.

However I think the thread is actually asking whether buying gold is better than keeping your money in cash. Well, as Muttley said, of late it hasn't been, but as for the future..? That's called speculation.

your still losing x% pa holding cash...

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Sorry, I wasn't clear about what I meant. I meant that saving money as apposed to spunking it all on 'stuff' today isn't a waste of time.

Anyway, being a smart-**** aside, I've actually read your linked article now. I'm no expert or anything, but I'm not sure that you can exactly equate money supply growth with inflation that the average person 'feels'. Okay so it means in overall terms that the £ is being devalued to that amount, but if most of that 14% is ending up in HPI, we all know that that sector is going to provide some FAT money supply deflation soon enough.

HPI has no inflationary impact on me or any of us that are staying out of the market until things correct - UNLESS you capitulate and buy before the crash, then you'll feel the full force of it. RPI is a much better indicator of how things you spend your money on are increasing in price. You can't just look at money supply growth and say, 'shit, I'm losing this much money each year'.

Cash / bonds / high yielding stocks are just the best options for keeping ahead of inflation at the moment, as far as I can see... Maybe precious metals will go ballistic one day, well, I'm invested in there to a small extent.

This is just the way I see things, please feel free to shoot me down.

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I split my pension into 50% Gartmore China Opportunites fund and 50% JP Morgan Natural Resouces fund a couple of weeks ago and so far both funds are whizzing up by about 6% per week !!!

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I split my pension into 50% Gartmore China Opportunites fund and 50% JP Morgan Natural Resouces fund a couple of weeks ago and so far both funds are whizzing up by about 6% per week !!!

what's the yield after charges?

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what's the yield after charges?

That is after charges. In fact it probably worked out even better for me as I pay lower charges. I just fund switched using Merchant Investors pension portfolio (no bid/offer spread etc.

See:

http://www.merchant-investors.co.uk/daily/...es_series7.aspx

http://investing.thisismoney.co.uk/cgi-bin...c=&id=38000

http://investing.thisismoney.co.uk/cgi-bin...c=&id=36367

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That is after charges. In fact it probably worked out even better for me as I pay lower charges. I just fund switched using Merchant Investors pension portfolio (no bid/offer spread etc.

See:

http://www.merchant-investors.co.uk/daily/...es_series7.aspx

http://investing.thisismoney.co.uk/cgi-bin...c=&id=38000

http://investing.thisismoney.co.uk/cgi-bin...c=&id=36367

whats the notice (penalty) for withdrawing from these accounts?

for example - if a market dips - can you pull out fast enough or are you along for the ride?

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whats the notice (penalty) for withdrawing from these accounts?

for example - if a market dips - can you pull out fast enough or are you along for the ride?

Within the Merchant Investors pension portfolio I have a choice of about 80 funds to choose from including bonds and cash. I can fund switch within the pension portfolio by post any time I like for no fee. The switching process just takes a couple of days.

Edited by penbat1

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