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marsdei

Inspection Trip - The Greens - Morocco

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Hello All

I have an inspection trip lined up with Saffron Villas, and as I am new to investing I was wondering if anyone could offer a some questions that I could ask?

Thanks

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I'm sorry, but if you don't have an idea of what questions to ask, you should not even be going. (If this is a a developer/agent subsidised trip, well..... you deserve to be fleeced.)

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I'm sorry, but if you don't have an idea of what questions to ask, you should not even be going. (If this is a a developer/agent subsidised trip, well..... you deserve to be fleeced.)

Thanks, thats exactly the type of reponse I needed!

I do have questions, quite a number of them actually, but was hoping for some positve input from the more experienced investors in hope they could add some questions that they have only found to ask from their past experiences of overseas investment.

Obviously, from your comments a forum is not the place to ask, @rse hole.

You must feel quite comfortable hiding behind your keyboard wondering if you would have the bottle to give such a negative comment face to face.

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marsdei,

You haven't exactly been overwhelmed with responses, have you ?. This may be because there are new investors who post without seeming to have made any effort on their own behalf, and want it all doing for them.

If you list the questions you are planning to ask, and then ask if there is anything you might have missed you will probably get a positive response.

My views on developer/agent sponsored inspection trips still stand. Always visit under your own steam; less pressure and more scope for negotiation.

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marsdei,

You haven't exactly been overwhelmed with responses, have you ?. This may be because there are new investors who post without seeming to have made any effort on their own behalf, and want it all doing for them.

If you list the questions you are planning to ask, and then ask if there is anything you might have missed you will probably get a positive response.

My views on developer/agent sponsored inspection trips still stand. Always visit under your own steam; less pressure and more scope for negotiation.

Thats a good point Radio, and sorry for my original rant, I just feel that as a collective we are all aiming for the same thing, and was hoping for a little help.

I do not wish to come across as a beginner looking to be spoon fed, as I do spend alot of time investigating my possible purchase and just chose requesting help from this forum as another avenue.

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Hi marsdei,

You are absolutely right to ask questions on here (and other forums). I have learnt a lot, from far more experienced investors, but as I said previously, experienced hands want to see some effort.

Morrocco is being heavily hyped at the moment and before asking what questions you should be asking of a developer, you should be asking questions of yourself e.g. why property, why Morrocco, what are your objectives. Please don't fall into the beginners thinking of a holiday home paid for by rental returns. Some years ago I had this mentality but fortunately did enough research to realise that, generally, it's an unrealistic expectation.

Personally, I don't think Morrocco is going to be the big success story others do. (Fortunately, opinions are like noses - pick your own). Picnic's posting speaks volumes.

Please keep us informed of the results of your trip. (My advice - sign nothing on site; come home and assess in the cold, wet, windy light of an English summer !).

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marsdei

Dude, you haven't even told us what development you are going to f***ing view, but knowing saffron ask if there is a bank guarantee in place in the event it all goes belly up. If it's playa ask them to put it in writing that the marina is going to be built.

If I am off the mark then give use a clue!

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marsdei

Dude, you haven't even told us what development you are going to f***ing view, but knowing saffron ask if there is a bank guarantee in place in the event it all goes belly up. If it's playa ask them to put it in writing that the marina is going to be built.

If I am off the mark then give use a clue!

Jesus, Foremost I am off Saidia to see The Greens complex. I have also seen another couple of alternatives I like on the Saidia development that I am interested in. As for The Greens, FADESA are the builders and provide the Bank guarantees.

Hi

Want to buy my place (SADIA ) ?

3 bed beach front villa.....I am desparate to sell and would take a loss for a quick sale.

Picnic, Interesting statement, whereabouts is the villa, whats the reasons for sale? I would be more than happy to have a look at this stage?

As for contract signing there is none on the trip, an answer is expected within 4 weeks of the inspection trip.

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Hi

Want to buy my place (SADIA ) ?

3 bed beach front villa.....I am desparate to sell and would take a loss for a quick sale.

There you go Dogbox, seeing as Saidia is such a great investment, why don't you snap up this bargain as well ?

;)

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Only so long that Big Log can keep away.

It's like watching a vulture circling overhead, any sign of blood and you pounce. One person apparently trying to sell a Villa on Saidia and you strike. You have no idea why they might be selling yet there you are with yet another 'helpful' comment.

Disappointing.

Edited by euroscooby

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Only so long that Big Log can keep away.

It's like watching a vulture circling overhead, any sign of blood and you pounce. One person apparently trying to sell a Villa on Saidia and you strike. You have no idea why they might be selling yet there you are with yet another 'helpful' comment.

Disappointing.

You wouldn't know 'helpful' if it hit you in the face.

Or is it only Selling Agents that are allowed on here with their 'helpful' advice ??

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Please explain how you comment is 'helpful'.

If you bothered to look through my past comments, you'd know......

I had been giving more realistic, local, UK Expat views, in fact nearly all of the time, I was poking at Dogbox who as I quite rightly saw as a ramper/flipper who has never even set foot in a country he is so heavily promoting (and before anyone says you don't need to providing you do your research properly, don't bother me!).

Of course I have been proved right (if you bothered to come out here and knew the place like I do you'd see).

Has is/has been playing a part in reeling in people from a variety of websites (not just this one) to buy in to his 'belief'.

And he'll continue to 'shake the tambourine' I'm sure.

Picnic is the first (on here) I've heard being prepared to take a hit.

I know that over here, people are giving back keys (Morocco is hyped over and they will in their first time experience falls, which I'd warned them would happen as property here is unaffordable).

To people on this site, all I have been doing is warning them that build quality is NOTHING (ZERO) over here in Morocco (however much Dogbox, again I'll reiterate, will hype something he has never, ever seen - only what someone has presented to him on a video).

I am in construction over here (importer of materials) - I see it EVERY DAY. Let me repeat, I SEE IT EVERYDAY. I take pictures of it on a weekly basis. It is of appallingly low standard. And I have SEEN Saidia property construction. IT'S OF NO DIFFERENT QUALITY.

So, assuming that both Dogbox and I are telling the truth (all I said to people on here was to come over and see for yourself and don't believe an armchair ramper), who would any sensible 'normal' person believe/do ??

Now, euro, what is your experience/input ?

I also await the usual barrage of 'helpful' comments from the other rampers/hypers/salespeople.

Edited by BigLog

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QUESTIONS TO ASK AND HAVE VERIFIED IN THE CONTRACT IF POSSIBLE:

+ Details on the snagging agenda / window

+ Any build guarantees

+ Completion date

+ Who exactly is taking your cash and how robust are they

+ Rental plans - will there be a pool as there is for the LeJardinDeFleur products

GENERAL COMMENTS:

I agree with Radio that many touristic developments dont stack - up on rent returns. On the other hand plenty do.

You need to settle in your own mind what Saidia offers.

As ever I am totally convinced this is a unique and worthwhile investment and that the critics are very misinformed.

The fact MOST people dont have the knowledge benefits early investors. It is good that many would reject Saidia (for now) as an investment as this ignorance allows you in at a low price.

Simply carry out a comparison but make sure its like for like. A 5 star gold resort in Portugals Silver coast with 1 hotel, no marina and a couple of gylms is not in any sense a comparible.

Think about the end user in 3 years time. What motivates them to chose one resort over another. Then think about the options they have.

I say they have NO other options of this nature and extent this close to home.

You decide, but remeber MOST people will nay say.

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Also, I will add, that people on here keep mentioning that the King has visited Saidia (saying this in order to ramp up the area's worth).

I have it on strong word (I cannot say ;)) that in fact the King has NEVER set foot in Saidia.......

Edited by BigLog

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Yo Big Log, good to hear from you again.

BL even the less well made Fadesa villas Im hearing good things about, and yes thats from real people who have been to site and seen the finished product.

Ive seen shite quality all over Spain and Greece but that does not logically mean ALL property is deliovered in just a state.

We will not settle this until the properties are delivered. Im no rose tinter - I expect snags and problems.

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BL

So all the photos of the King on the beach in Saidia were faked!

I wonder why go to all that trouble of faking, when a simple trip to Saidia would have sufficed.

From Lady Di to Men On the Moon, the sceptics will always confound logic.

Fancy the good ole Moroccans decieveing all the big name operators investing in Saidia such as Iberostar and Barcelo. Weve all been had, those Moroccans sure know how to pull a con off.

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BL

So all the photos of the King on the beach in Saidia were faked!

I wonder why go to all that trouble of faking, when a simple trip to Saidia would have sufficed.

From Lady Di to Men On the Moon, the sceptics will always confound logic.

Fancy the good ole Moroccans decieveing all the big name operators investing in Saidia such as Iberostar and Barcelo. Weve all been had, those Moroccans sure know how to pull a con off.

Well, funny you *should* say that, because I *HAVE* seen faked pictures here actually (and when I pointed it out to the locals, they were shocked also) !

As I said, I had it on VERY good authority, I'll recheck and get back to you, but I wouldn't say something like that unless it's source was very credible (and my source can't be much more than).

Okay ?

Edited by BigLog

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Dogbox. Big Log

Thanks for your contribution, I am a big fan of hearing both sides of the story, when put in a contructive manner.

Dogbox, I will take those questions with me and ask. I will see which questions I ask have some relevance and maybe I can help out others by posting a list.

Big Log, for all due dilligence I could carry out, build quality would be something you would "expect" to be of high quality on a resort marketed at 5 star, and built by a "leading" construction company.

How would somebody check the build quality of a development with no previous experience of the construction sector?

Thanks

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Dogbox. Big Log

Thanks for your contribution, I am a big fan of hearing both sides of the story, when put in a contructive manner.

Dogbox, I will take those questions with me and ask. I will see which questions I ask have some relevance and maybe I can help out others by posting a list.

Big Log, for all due dilligence I could carry out, build quality would be something you would "expect" to be of high quality on a resort marketed at 5 star, and built by a "leading" construction company.

How would somebody check the build quality of a development with no previous experience of the construction sector?

Thanks

Hi Marsdei,

I'm in a bit of a rush so I may come back later to reply !

Unfortunately, I get to see the WHOLE build cycle, and it is not an impressive site.

I did try to explain this about 6months ago, but the Sales Agents on here put me off from further posting.

It's what goes on before that will shock you.

A few examples and then I'm out of here for today ! :

i) It is commonly accepted that the plumbing in Morocco simply doesn't work.

ii) Electrical works: I recently learnt that electricians don't follow any colour coding, they use whatever bit of wire is handy (absolutely true) :blink:

iii) cheapest windows in market are used,

iv) they don't use any balance/level on site (yes, even 8+ storey buildings are put up 'by eye'). Many buildings you just have to look at and you can see they are wonky.

I could go on (trust me).

Marsdei, all I could say for you is to expect to pay high, and expect/get low (that is the Moroccan way I'm afraid).

As long as that is what you want, and know what you are buying, Good luck

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Marsdei

Take a look at the Fadesa built villas many of which are now finished. Please report your findings.

Big Log reporting "Moroccan developments are always poor quality" may well be correct but such an observation is pretty much irrelevant when it comes to Plan Azure resorts which represent a step change.

Clearly the Moroccans are entering a new phase in thier devlopment. Vision 2010 has so far demonstrated a long term careful fore thought and planning. I cant see them now delivering shite as all the planning will have been for nowt.

Think about Turkey or Bulgaria - there you will find no such defined long term plan, just an ad-hoc organic development of tourism. The Moroccans have gone about this in a completely different fashion - why bother if its all going to fail on delivery? They could have had no plans just like the Bulgarians and let the market find its own way.

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Big Log - I understand fully your observations but you imply compaines such as Fadesa or Barcelo hotels would just accept shoddy work, cmon that makes no sense.

I could say that in The British Virgin Islands the locals build out of tin, and dont use spirit levels but that has NO NO NO relevance to the classy resorts built there.

We could say that the Indian builders in Dubai use basic methods in India but again this doesnt mean the Dubai skyscrapers are made of dung.

The Brits used local labour all over the world in the days of empire to construct impressively. Are we really saying some of the best names in Tourism are going to allow primitive building in the Saidia resort. Sorry mate that just doesnt stack up.

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LOL,

I see BigLog is still bitter about not getting the contract to supply building materials to the Saidia developers.

Marsdei, I have recently spoken to a friend of mine that is purchasing one of Fadesa'a V-2 villas (literally an hour ago), and she been to the site again this week.

She has told me the King IS on site (well, he's actually staying on a Yacht in the harbour), and I also know this from my contact on the site. BigLog is probably being pedantic, when he is saying he hasnt set foot on the site, as he is usually on the water. She also told me that when she was driving up to Saidia from Fes, it took her longer than usual as there were loads of armed guards at all the villages en-route, due to the Kings visit to the site, and his travels through the villages.

She also spent some time visiting the area itself (Oujda, Nador, Saidia town etc), and met and spoke to a few locals, and they all were very happy about this site, as it will bring much needed jobs and money to what is a particularly poor area of the country. One fella she spoke to, is actually going to buy a tract of land, to develop (with the Governments blessing).

In regards to the build finishes, she has stated while there ARE a few snagging issues, they are minor, and her and her husband are more than happy with the build quality of the villa. she just wishes there are more facilites ready/nearly ready on the site, as she is due to complete in the next month or so.

BigLog, can you REALLY post here, that its all going to go down the swanny, due to build quality etc, when this site, along with the other 5 Azure sites are absolutely crucial to the entire countries future?? Who knows better you, or the head of the country and all his advisors?? As Dogbox has stated, do you think all the hotel chains (Barcelo, Sofitel, Intercontinental etc), havent done any due diligence on this site? Or is it possible that they are spending many millions on building their hotels, on the off-chance this may work??

I dont actually post too often on this site, but when you get bitter people like Big Log, talking out of his a r s e, it winds me up, as he clearly doesnt know the unique situation this resort is part of.

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Rumpola dont get annoyed with the likes of Biglog. Understand it is these people that allow us to make money. Without them the secret would be out and everyone buying.

The same type of mentality told us UK plc was doomed when Hong Kong took our manufacturing away. Its a simplistic kneejerk reaction to anything new.

Such people know the price of everything and the value of nothing. The sort that study WHATCAR for months but then still buy a Fiat or a rapidly depreciating Citroen!!

In a nutshell the resistance to Saidia seems to be borne of ignorance and prejudice: Moroccans have until now had a relatively undeveloped way of life so how on earth could they now move up a few gears?

They also fail to spot crucial indicators (Im gonna get ribbed for this); Go into Waitrose and see there is quite a bit of Moroccan influence, for example thier Salad range. The alert mind recognises such small insignificant events are actually very important. Moroccan = cool and exotic. Modern life is much about image and aspirant impulses - TV adverts often creat a lifestyle image rather than say much about the actual product benefits.

What Im trying to say (badly) is that Morocco is going to be a very cool place to own a property. The odd bomb wont make a jot of difference - only lifes real worriers would be deterred.

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