Itv1- 8.00pm Tonight

[It is different this time]

Mike Nicholson looks into the controversial issue of whether priority housing from local councils should be given to British families or economic migrants. The reporter finds out about the pressures facing the council employees who make the decisions and talks to people who may never be able to afford their own homes

One to watch, in actual fact, Mr miracle Brown should also watch to see why people think that they may never be able to afford their homes. Thanks to his miracle economy 'property always goes up' not!

[apom]

Now, personally I think that Immigration is a good thing, different cultures bring a lot to the country and in a lot of ways I think that a lot of what made Great Britain great was Immigration.

But like all good things moderation is the key, with any enitity change can be applied, too much change can break it.

The population is like that.

We have a government who has actually manipulated people into staggering amounts of debt so that the country looked rich…

They did that, honestly… Bless them… (Lord Edward Georges Admissions…)

We have a government who have opened the borders to the level that 1 in five children born into the UK were to mothers born outside the UK last year…

Hell, 1 in 5?

Now, is this the open door policy of the labour party? Or is it the fact that they have made the cost of living too high for a significant proportion of the country to not be able to afford to breed?

I think it will be a mixture of the two.

But high house prices were created on purpose and what we have now is a government that has opened the door to the world for immigration and is now quite happy for them to take the blame for high housing costs created deliberately by the government to fool the people into taking on massive debt…

Champagne socialists have the moral code of…

Actually, this is worse then the BNP.

Labour, lie to the people then blame immigrants for the result of their own criminal acts…

These people are our democratically elected government…

Staggering…

[Saving For a Space Ship]

bump - on now

[jimmyjazz]

bump - on now

i dont watch telly,

is it any good ?

[Sinking Feeling]

Maybe this is all part of the "new world order", when the money disappears, politics turns to the extremes.

[ae589]

Hell, 1 in 5?

Where's that stat from?

[Guest Cletus VanDamme]

I thought it was pretty good. Interesting interview with the housing director of Barking & Dagenham, who was desperate to build more houses but could not get enough funds from central government.

I can't see why they can't simply requisition empty BTL flats.

[OnlyMe]

Getting into clink would get that bloke up the priority list.

Only in Britain, what a demoralising shithole.

[jimmyjazz]

Getting into clink would get that bloke up the priority list.

Only in Britain, what a demoralising shithole.

I have to agree that that is absurd.

Well folks is it true as many have long believed: can a recently arrived immigrant with 3 kids shoot past a single man who has been on the waiting list 5 years ?

[Guest vicmac64]

The taxpayer can't possibly keep up with this madness.

Our country's economy will be destroyed as a consequence and our British Identity eroded - this was New Labours intention from the beginning - divide and conquer as they say - and judging from a good portion of the posts on this site their 'divide and conquer' policy is working - those like myself that disagree with such immoral immigration policies seem to be in the minority.

What a sad place the UK has become.

[Guest Cletus VanDamme]

Well folks is it true as many have long believed: can a recently arrived immigrant with 3 kids shoot past a single man who has been on the waiting list 5 years ?

A young, healthy single man was always a very low priority for council housing and always will be.

He was going on about wanting his own flat - well, so would many people. I suggest he rents a room in shared house to start with.

His talk of 1000 pounds per month rents were absurd - central London maybe, but there's plenty of 1beds in Barking for half that.

[jimmyjazz]

A young, healthy single man was always a very low priority for council housing and always will be.

He was going on about wanting his own flat - well, so would many people. I suggest he rents a room in shared house to start with.

His talk of 1000 pounds per month rents were absurd - central London maybe, but there's plenty of 1beds in Barking for half that.

My brother worked in London for 10 years on a fairly low wage . about 200 -400 per week. He worked harder than anyone I know.

He worked on constructing tube tunnels during the night in minus 10.

A mortgage was never possible. Instead he stayed in grubby bedsits from 50 -100 per week .

He went on the waiting list but never got a sniff.

Was he right to be angry when he would meet a recent immigrant who had been in the country a few years but because said immigrant had a young wife pregnant 3 times before she was 20 they got a council house ?

Was he not right to be angry when Kosovans, Albanians , Kurds etc etc were living in 3 bedroomed council flats while he was living in a 20 ft by 10 ft room in Cricklewood ?

Has he no right to any indignation ?

[bryanh]

A young, healthy single man was always a very low priority for council housing and always will be.

And always has been.

When I was homeless 10 years ago and went to the local council to find houseing their reply was -

"Yeah OK, what do you want us to do about it"

This was before "immigration" as such, so this bloke stands no chance.

[Guest Cletus VanDamme]

My brother worked in London for 10 years on a fairly low wage . about 200 -400 per week. He worked harder than anyone I know.

I worked in a low paid job in London from 1992-1994 earning 165 per week gross, eventually earning. 270 per week gross in 1994. That was after studying for a degree for 3 years. The thought of going cap in hand to the council never crossed my mind. I rented a room in a shared flat for around 50 quid a week.

I was pretty happy. Playing guitar in bands in the evenings, giving the odd guitar lesson, hanging out with friends. Was broke but had cheap fun. Didn't sit staring at the wall in my bedsit doing a Travis Bickle!

Edited July 2, 2007 by Cletus VanDamme

[jimmyjazz]

I worked in a low paid job in London from 1992-1994 earning 165 per week gross, eventually earning. 270 per week gross in 1994. That was after studying for a degree for 3 years. The thought of going cap in hand to the council never crossed my mind. I rented a room in a shared flat for around 50 quid a week.

I was pretty happy. Playing guitar in bands in the evenings, giving the odd guitar lesson, hanging out with friends. Was broke but had cheap fun. Didn't sit staring at the wall in my bedsit doing a Travis Bickle!

Neither did he and what has your cheap ad-hom jibe go to do with the point I am making ?

Were yuo seeking to deflect my point by starting a tawdry argument ?

He would have been a lot better off if he had stayed in a 3-bed council flat like many recent immigrants rather than in pawky shared accommodation.

He could have started a family like many of the recent immigrants did who had been given council accommodation.

[Guest Cletus VanDamme]

Neither did he and what has your cheap ad-hom jibe go to do with the point I am making ?

Were yuo seeking to deflect my point by starting a tawdry argument ?

He would have been a lot better off if he had stayed in a 3-bed council flat like many recent immigrants rather than in pawky shared accommodation.

He could have started a family like many of the recent immigrants did who had been given council accommodation.

I'm not trying to start an argument at all.

You asked, did he have a right to anger and indignation. OK, I should have simply said 'No': as a single, fit man he had no right to anger and indignation at homeless families getting housed ahead of him.

Now, had he been one half of a couple living in shared accommodation with a child on the way then of course he would have had a right to be angry.

[OnlyMe]

Cletus,

I suspect the comprisons you draw are a lot shallower than they first appear - being male and of about the same age.

Did you have any particular affiliations with the area - probably not.

Did you have relatives in the area - probably not.

Did you anticipate staying on the same sort of wage as you were on at the time - probably not.

Were the living conditions little more than an extension of those during your time studying - probably.

Did you anticipate being in that situation for the foreeable foture - probably not.

Did you see that tiome living in shared accommodation as transitory - probably.

I think your outlook would be vastly broader than the character in the programme and this changes the situation quite radically. Horses for courses, the prospect of long-term house-sharing is not really suitable for the vast number of even single people.

Another matter that was raised in the programme was the reported widespread refusal to be interviewed/recorded. Long term festering resentments are being built up, this is not a healthy situation, there are those that think that if you shut people up then problems go away, history suggests otherwise.

[Warwick-Watcher]

My brother worked in London for 10 years on a fairly low wage . about 200 -400 per week. He worked harder than anyone I know.

He worked on constructing tube tunnels during the night in minus 10.

A mortgage was never possible. Instead he stayed in grubby bedsits from 50 -100 per week .

He went on the waiting list but never got a sniff.

Was he right to be angry when he would meet a recent immigrant who had been in the country a few years but because said immigrant had a young wife pregnant 3 times before she was 20 they got a council house ?

Was he not right to be angry when Kosovans, Albanians , Kurds etc etc were living in 3 bedroomed council flats while he was living in a 20 ft by 10 ft room in Cricklewood ?

Has he no right to any indignation ?

Obvious answer is to find a fit Kosovan girl (assuming this is genetically possible) and get her up the duff. Soon get a council property!

[jimmyjazz]

I'm not trying to start an argument at all.

You asked, did he have a right to anger and indignation. OK, I should have simply said 'No': as a single, fit man he had no right to anger and indignation at homeless families getting housed ahead of him.

It is obvious the points system needs to be changed to give more points to

someone who has been in the area for 10 years as opposed to someone very recently arrived.

I would change the law so that you had to be resident for at least 3 years before you could apply for a council house.

Would you agree ?

[Guest Cletus VanDamme]

Did you anticipate staying on the same sort of wage as you were on at the time - probably not.

Actually, I likely would have done had I not done evening classes and taught myself to write software. Never ended up using my first degree at all.

Horses for courses, the prospect of long-term house-sharing is not really suitable for the vast number of even single people.

Agree, but paying 500 quid a month to rent a flat isn't so bad is it? He could have aspired to that. The other option, which I suggested and am strongly in favour of, is that empty, privately-owned flats should be requisitioned by the council to house single people on low incomes.

Another matter that was raised in the programme was the reported widespread refusal to be interviewed/recorded. Long term festering resentments are being built up, this is not a healthy situation, there are those that think that if you shut people up then problems go away, history suggests otherwise.

Agree with you there. It needs to be discussed. I think someone else in the programme made an important point which wasn't discussed, which was that those with drug and alcohol problems were going to the front of the queue also. Having spent some years working with such people, it's usually a waste of a good flat giving it to them. They always lose them and go back onto the streets or back into prison or hospital.

[subsidiser]

I thought it was pretty good. Interesting interview with the housing director of Barking & Dagenham, who was desperate to build more houses but could not get enough funds from central government.

I can't see why they can't simply requisition empty BTL flats.

Are there lots of empty BTL flats? As an investment that does not generally work.

What about requisitioning large empty houses - for example where some poor old biddy has outlived her husband and still lives in a large detached house - that would be so much fairer.

(By the way I'm only kidding about that - but its just as fair and reasonable).

[Guest Cletus VanDamme]

Are there lots of empty BTL flats? As an investment that does not generally work.

I understood 'buy-to-sit' was the latest paradigm in the residential investment property market.

[Guest Cletus VanDamme]

I would change the law so that you had to be resident for at least 3 years before you could apply for a council house.

Actually, judging by what B&Ds housing director said, that was the way it used to work. You'd start off in a tower block flat, and over time could realistically expect to get a house as they became available. Then it all went Pete Tong when they were all sold off and not replaced.

Would you agree ?

I'll have to think about that one. The Afghan couple had to wait 4 years in one room with 2 kids.

Though, to be honest, in their situation I think I'd be so amazingly grateful that out of thousands of desperate refugees, I'd been accepted by a first world country and taken in and given free bed and board for life, I'd have settled for that and thought 'ok, the rest is up to me now'.

[Bearfacts]

The most revealing part of the program for me was the revelation that the government blatantly lied when cornered over the question of how much social housing is taken by non-UK subjects. Not just a little fib or a slight exageration but a blatant whopping great lie. The figure they gave was out by a factor of 500%. It is not possible to make an honest mistake of that magnitude. They even tried to pin the racism badge on anyone who questioned their stance.

It is very clear this government lies, do not trust any government statistics.

[Sceptacled Bear]

Personally I dont care who lives here as long as they pay tax, it's interesting though that my local housing authority refuses to house anyone who hasn't been resident for 12 months and have links to the area. Given that I live in a rural county most of the old housing stock has long since been bought up and flogged on at massive profit. Thus whatever your circumstances/origins/number of kids your chances of getting housed if you can't sort a private rental are pretty much zero. House prices stand at about £150k for an ex-council where I live.