200,000 'social Homes' Given To Immigrants

[iamnumerate]

Only 5% ? I doubt that. What of course most people seem to be forgetting, it is probably not hard working immigrants who get these houses but lazy ones. I know immigrants who work hard and immigrants who are lazy. The latter are more successful with getting social housing !

Of course considering the whole idea of social housing was to pay the working class for their sacrifices in WW I immigrants should not be getting housing, unless the immigrants are from Oz or New Zealand. My relatives died at Gallopoli I guess if they had fought for the other side I would have more chance of getting a council house !!

[MarkG]

I don't give a rats ass if he's made anyone unemployed.

So you don't care that the government now has _less_ money available to pay all those pensions that the glorious Polish immigrants are supposed to pay? Instead of working for a few pounds an hour and paying tax, that unemployed cleaner is now making more money in welfare, and that money has to come from somewhere.

Why am I not surprised that you don't understand this? Ah, because if you did you wouldn't be spouting the 'we need mass immigration to pay our pensions' ********.

Britain is exporting skilled, educated middle-class workers as fast as they can get out of here; they're the ones who are supposed to be paying for your pension, not unskilled Polish cleaners on minimum wage. The entire policy is utterly absurd.

Edited July 2, 2007 by MarkG

[Als]

These days we are seeing a golden opportunity of Eastern European immigration where cultural differences are much smaller and the immigrants more easily and invisibily accommodated.

Do you mean unlike Muslim people? You're like alot of actively pro-immigration people Andy. The limits of your tolerance are well-defined. European governments show the same kind of 'tolerance' towards European integration...except when it comes to Turkey.

[poorman]

. Brits have too few children to provide this. Rather than encourage the population to have more kids (the scum at the bottom have 5 and thats a different problem) it better to steal the industrious from other countries. Just to get here and work they have to have a second language and be hungry for work. De Facto they are the sort of citizen that is most useful to the country.

650,000 hard working Poles have turned up and found work. Which begs the question as to what the 2.2 million on the Dole are doing and just why should we pay them...

ANDY

I get people asking me for work day in day out and i cannot give them a job because there home office letters will not allow them to work, but i have found the immigrants that do have the right to work turn out to be the best workers as they sent some money home to help out and do not want to loose there jobs,

As my company only pays minimum wage the local people we do actually get to work for us cannot be bothered and mess around most of the time and I end up getting rid of them.

I don't care where people come from as long as they want to work and will do a good job for me it is the time wasters and slackers which annoy me and most of them turn out to be locals, then they go back to there local pubs and moan about the immigrants taking there work :angry: ,

[Andy Jones]

Sorry Andy you aren't following the logic of your own posts through.

Let me help you out there.

Firstly the more people you bring in to this country doesn't actually make the problem of paying pensions any easier, in fact it actually makes it worse.

Why?

Well because believe it or not these people will get old one day as well what happens then, yes you guessed it we need more young blood to keep the pyramid going.

As for us having 'an open door policy' do you really consider that to be a good thing?

I think you'll find it was only us in the European Union which has this policy, most others put in a quota system.

Surely its better to know what sort of people we are getting in this counrty. Anyone with certain criminal convictions shouldn't be allowed in. And I've not even touched on the 'social cohesion arguments' yet or not as the case may be.

How many of these Poles are actually being paid the minimum wage Andy? Have you not seen the reports in the papers and even on the Beeb showing how Polish immigrants are being exploited by unethical employers?

Come on man its not all sweetness and light being a semi skilled working class Brit when in fact jonny Polishman will do the job far cheaper than you can afford to take because you've a mortgage to find every month when he has rent for a bed so he can send his pennies home.

Paying todays and tomorrows pensions is made much easier by importing 600,000 young bright Polish people who work hard at 3 jobs and pay taxes and pay rent and purchase goods and services. Back to economics 101 for you.

And when they get older they may well go back home. Or Stay. But if they do stay at least they have paid their taxes for 35 years. Unlike the council estate scum who claim nothing but benefits. It may be a pyramid but its at least another layer on the bottom.

We are not the only European country to have an open door policy and no quotas. Besides they are a bad idea. By being first to recruit the Poles (et al) we have got the best and brightest. As other Euro zone countries open their borders (as they all will as per treaty) all they will recruit is the dross and the third rate. The best and brightest came here first, started driving the forklift 3 years ago and now they have a local girlfriend and have been promoted to warehouse manager.

UK PLC has nabbed the most keen, the most able and the most talented for Eastern Europe. The French and Spanish and the rest can take whats left and whats still to come if they want next year when they drop their barriers. Good luck Mr Frog.

There are far more British Crims and Pikeys than Polish and as for the Minimum Wage I really don't think that is a problem. Those not earning it generally don't pay tax and are happy. Those that do are legal but still work on the side or have tips. They ain't complaining so why are you?

If you mention social cohesion then you are a racist. You must be. There are 3 black people for every pole.

ANDY

[RichM]

With respect Andy, you've not actually addressed Markg's points.

You've gone off on some rant about crap workers. Let me tell you something, you get these in all walks of life some are working class, middle class, upper class or guess what, even Polish!

Not the Polish. The Polish are angels in human form, sent from heaven to sustain our nation's flagging economy - miracle workers for a miracle economy.

They do not tire or weaken. Their song cheers them on their way as they complete their innumerable tasks. Sometimes the birds and squirrels, drawn by their pleasing sound, come and join them in their toil. As their 3.5 hours of sleep beckons, the wood creatures help tuck them into bed.

Hail the Polish super-workers!

[bambam]

Really? You have evidence that jobs previously paying ten pounds an hour have been bumped back to minimum wage? Care to provide some evidence, or shall we add this to the HPC myths?

Many of my wife's friends are low paid workers, and they are bitter at the Polish/Eastern European, and say it is harder to get cleaning jobs/old people's homes here, because previously employers struggled to get people willing to do it for the low wages, but no longer do. This is Outer London

[Guest Cletus VanDamme]

I'm generally in favour of homes going on basis of need rather than country of origin, but it does seem a bit flawed - people turn up with no home or job, can't work until their asylum applications are reviewed, are marked as in dire need of social housing so are moved into council accommodation, then they make their contribution to the economy and get jobs but because of that brief and transient period of need they're in a council house for good and can hang on to it or use their right to buy it.

Back in the day when I used to work for NHS doing home visits I came across a few people who had done quite well in this way.

The council house/flat provides free, instant leverage for a BTL portfolio.

[iamnumerate]

Paying todays and tomorrows pensions is made much easier by importing 600,000 young bright Polish people who work hard at 3 jobs and pay taxes and pay rent and purchase goods and services. Back to economics 101 for you.

And when they get older they may well go back home. Or Stay. But if they do stay at least they have paid their taxes for 35 years. Unlike the council estate scum who claim nothing but benefits. It may be a pyramid but its at least another layer on the bottom.

We are not the only European country to have an open door policy and no quotas. Besides they are a bad idea. By being first to recruit the Poles (et al) we have got the best and brightest. As other Euro zone countries open their borders (as they all will as per treaty) all they will recruit is the dross and the third rate. The best and brightest came here first, started driving the forklift 3 years ago and now they have a local girlfriend and have been promoted to warehouse manager.

UK PLC has nabbed the most keen, the most able and the most talented for Eastern Europe. The French and Spanish and the rest can take whats left and whats still to come if they want next year when they drop their barriers. Good luck Mr Frog.

There are far more British Crims and Pikeys than Polish and as for the Minimum Wage I really don't think that is a problem. Those not earning it generally don't pay tax and are happy. Those that do are legal but still work on the side or have tips. They ain't complaining so why are you?

If you mention social cohesion then you are a racist. You must be. There are 3 black people for every pole.

ANDY

What do you think about the polish police chief who said that a lot of criminals had emmigrated ?

[poorman]

I'm generally in favour of homes going on basis of need rather than country of origin, but it does seem a bit flawed - people turn up with no home or job, can't work until their asylum applications are reviewed, are marked as in dire need of social housing so are moved into council accommodation, then they make their contribution to the economy and get jobs but because of that brief and transient period of need they're in a council house for good and can hang on to it or use their right to buy it.

More temporary solutions that meant that they had a year or so without being given rights to a council home to find work and sort themselves out after which they'd no longer be a burden to the state would be good. Perhaps even allow them to work straight away while their asylum claim is being processed, then after a year if they've found work and are able to move on they can stay and they move out of the temporary housing, if they can't then they're chucked out of the country.

Totally agree at the moral point of the argument, I believe that the country has took the side of the asylum seekers and, us who pay tax get left out and undefended.

[OnlyMe]

Without Poles how would all those golf sale and McD's placards stay upright?

Lets face it the mimimun wage is such that you wouldn't bother to actually work hard for it unless it actually bought you something in return, at the moment it does for migrant workers. For everybody else in the super-inflated mess we live in now it is a waste of time. No wondered people can't be bothered. Perfectly understandable, sane, economic conclusion.

Gordon's getting worrried now, as well he should. The level of unemployment will rocket, falling employment and people facing up to realities if they lose their well paid job is going to be both an eye-opener and a financially crippling blow. Instant repo, just add lots of cheap foreign staff and a lousy economy.

[Andy Jones]

What do you think about the polish police chief who said that a lot of criminals had emmigrated ?

I say that the British Crime Survey and the Home Office show drops in crime since they arrived. Either they have gone straight or the Polish police officer is playing politics.

Either way. The Polish cleaner at my mums employer is a thousand times better than the 50yr old woman he replaced. So thats a good thing.

ANDY

[Andy Jones]

Many of my wife's friends are low paid workers, and they are bitter at the Polish/Eastern European, and say it is harder to get cleaning jobs/old people's homes here, because previously employers struggled to get people willing to do it for the low wages, but no longer do. This is Outer London

So why exactly should we care?

This is a market economy. Has been for years. If my grandparents were in an expensive care home in outer London then I would be very pleased if Polish/Eastern European workers enabled the owners to lower the monthly bill. Or indeed if the increased profit allowed my shares in the care home to rise or the dividend by increased.

If you are a stupid manual worker who can easily be replaced by someone from Poland or Turkey then the writing has been on the wall for some time. Turn off the plasma screen TV and get your sorry ass down to the local college and enrol on a night class and learn something useful. The options and opportunities are legion.

Just stop bleating because nobody really cares or has much sympathy.

ANDY

[tenroom]

So why exactly should we care?

This is a market economy. Has been for years. If my grandparents were in an expensive care home in outer London then I would be very pleased if Polish/Eastern European workers enabled the owners to lower the monthly bill. Or indeed if the increased profit allowed my shares in the care home to rise or the dividend by increased.

If you are a stupid manual worker who can easily be replaced by someone from Poland or Turkey then the writing has been on the wall for some time. Turn off the plasma screen TV and get your sorry ass down to the local college and enrol on a night class and learn something useful. The options and opportunities are legion.

Just stop bleating because nobody really cares or has much sympathy.

ANDY

Fukkin' A

[poorman]

I agree you should only employ people which want to work, but when you flood the employment market with people which will work for less than that country's minimum then you are bound to get problems in that wages will become depressed in certain employment fields, its common sense isn't it?

That's the way the managers want It, its all about how much profit they're made

[bomberbrown]

I agree with some of what Andy says in that a lot of foreigners are incentivised to work hard and that we have a fair few of our own home-grown layabouts on the dole. To this end, I simply propose the following:

Either we have an open door policy or we scrap the welfare state because in my mind, we cannot have both!

[Andy Jones]

I agree you should only employ people which want to work, but when you flood the employment market with people which will work for less than that country's minimum then you are bound to get problems in that wages will become depressed in certain employment fields, its common sense isn't it?

That's the way the managers want It, its all about how much profit they're made

And just how is 600,000 people flooding an employment market with 2.2 million UNEMPLOYED?

Or is it actually the fact there is no such thing as unemployment any more and that we the taxpayers are having money taken from our own childrens mouths to pay for lazy scum who cause two thirds of the police work in this nation?

I think we should be told.

ANDY

Edited July 2, 2007 by Andy Jones

[brainclamp]

Most immigration is muslim, low skilled and based on family links so there are now lot of dependants who now have 'rights' to access the social pool of housing.

200,000 social homes is a high proportion of the existing stock, for ever lower paid UK workers. Thier parents fought and died for this country - and paid for all the homes built in this community pool of starter homes to have a change of some sort of standard of living, working in the ranks of unstable employment conditions.

Its amusing what attutude some bearish posters have about supposed lazy workers - its mass immigration that is the root cause of the benefits culture, huge growth of government put forward by both parties, the 'lazy' displaced, and of course, the huge housing inflation which will tear every aspect of young people's lives apart one way or another, from forming a family, a pension, to perhaps a future collapse of the welfare state.

Why can't the arrivals rent on the minmum wage if they are so great?

The truth is you are paying the landlords income for them from your huge taxes - even if you get them on the minimum wage, that's the reason why people are fighting for mass immigration, which has no benefit whatsoever for the native population - the reverse.

Edited July 2, 2007 by brainclamp

[OnlyMe]

brainclamp

Looks like you were right all along the last couple of years. Good call.

[wickywackywoo]

Really? You have evidence that jobs previously paying ten pounds an hour have been bumped back to minimum wage? Care to provide some evidence, or shall we add this to the HPC myths?

There was a guy who posted on here a while back. He worked in a factory where most people were being paid £10/12 per hour. They were being told to take large reductions or their jobs would go to Poles who were happy to work for about £8 per hour, if my memory serves me correctly.

You don't need evidence it's happening, it's one of the basic laws of economics, supply and demand. When supply rises, prices drop. Only an idiot would think otherwise.

[Fancypants]

brainclamp

Looks like you were right all along the last couple of years. Good call.

hardly! He seems to think that mass immigration is the underlying cause of everything - e.g.

its mass immigration that is the root cause of the benefits culture, huge growth of government put forward by both parties, the 'lazy' displaced, and of course, the huge housing inflation which will tear every aspect of young people's lives apart one way or another, from forming a family, a pension, to perhaps a future collapse of the welfare state.

he's a one-trick pony that gets all over any immigration related thread like a cheap suit. OK, so he aligns himself with bears in some of his language, but I really think you are overlooking a more sinister agenda here.

I'm sure you'd agree that immigration is a symptom of the rot at the heart of this country - but a cause? I think not. That causal relationship is at the heart of his thinking, and it is a dangerous red herring.

[wickywackywoo]

I'm generally in favour of homes going on basis of need rather than country of origin, but it does seem a bit flawed

Yeah, just slightly.

Like why should British Taxpayers pay for the homes of hundreds of thousands of people who've never paid tax in this country?

What would happen if immigration rose ten-fold (which some of the people on this board would probably think was great)? Do you think the British taxpayer should pay for 2,000,000 homes for foreigners?

Shame the people who think the answer to the above is yes, cannot forcibly have all their money taken to pay for it. See how keen they are then

[dog]

Many on here are pro leaving the UK to cash in on the £s in other conutries and 'nick' jobs and houses etc and this seems to be acceptable.

I think the main motive of people wanting to leave the UK is to get away from bad government.

[OnlyMe]

I'm sure you'd agree that immigration is a symptom of the rot at the heart of this country - but a cause? I think not. That causal relationship is at the heart of his thinking, and it is a dangerous red herring.

If it looks like a fish, smells like a fish, it probably is a fish.

If I remember correctly BC was saying that a lot of the excess demand for BTL could be pegged to levels of imigration squeezing the supply/demand curve, that BTL'ers were explicitly running off this and that it was a core driver for demand that would support the BTL market for far longer than most others believed It matters not whether immigration leads to direct occupation of council housing or private sector BTL or some intermediate HA type accommodation the numbers being relesed now show the huge level of occupancy that has occured and it simply shifts native demand for council occupation further into the private sector.

Thus I call BC's observations and predictions to be pretty much bang on.

[Guest d23]

Most immigration is muslim, low skilled and based on family links so there are now lot of dependants who now have 'rights' to access the social pool of housing.

are you sure about that?

I'd have thought the vast majority of current immigrants into the UK at the moment would be catholics