Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum
Jonnybegood

Planning Permission To Blame For The Floods

Recommended Posts

Heard this on the 6 o'clock news tonight, They seem to think that many of the floods have been caused due to buildings having being built on flood plains, causing the river to narrow over the years.

I agree that more housing needs to be built but a relaxation of planning laws is not the way to go unless we want to see a repeat of this flooding year after year.

There is only so far we can go on building into the natural surroundings until natural disasters like we have seen the past week become common place.

Edited by Jonnybegood

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Heard this on the 6 o'clock news tonight, They seem to think that many of the floods have been caused due to buildings having being built on flood plains, causing the river to narrow over the years.

I agree that more housing needs to be built but a relaxation of planning laws is not the way to go unless we want to see a repeat of this flooding year after year.

There is only so far we can go on building into the natural surroundings until natural disasters like we have seen the past week become common place.

We've been building on flood plains for hundreds of years. London is substantially built on a flood plain. Indeed even in the centre of London there are points where the Thames is "allowed" to flood. For instance walk past the Tate Modern and you will see open railings, rather than the more solid "embankment" walls elsewhere.

I was reading about the building of Thamemead, in South East London/Kent. Originally this was conceived as a "city on stilts" built as it was on reclaimed marsh land close to the tidal Thames, instead they built elaborate canals and channels including five lakes to store the water and drain the land, in addition to pumping stations and raised three miles of riverbank.

Edited by rover2000

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Bart of Darkness

Planning Permission To Blame For The Floods

And here's me blaming all that record breaking torrential rain. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Oh no it is Globular Warmening. Mysteriously where all the poor people live.

Only poor people (or idiots) would buy a house on a flood plain. The other problem is that by building on flood plains the land is no longer available to soak up the floods, so it now spreads out into areas that previously wouldn't flood.

Just another unintended consequence of NIMBY-ism in house-building in this country.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It makes sense. Rain that flows down drains will get into rivers a lot quicker than rain that gradually sinks through the soil.

Therefore, ironically, flash flooding is much more likely when water is diverted from built up areas by the man-made drainage systems.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, the real reason for the flooding is deforestation of the penines, whose once rich woodlands would have absorbed much of the rainfall. Industrialisation has also led to a progressive narrowing of the river(s) that run from the hills, creating a back-up effect. In this situation, there's only one place for the water to go. It could have been prevented, but only by prevention of industrialisation. You could say that we're victims of our own (once) glorious industrial past.

Edited by BarrelShifter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I watched the half hour flood special on the bbc yesterday.

They said that the Yorkshire floods were caused by centuries of burning & remove peat from the moors, which historically acted as a natural sponge. The course & shape of rivers has also been adversely changed.

They cited Brighton as a solution as it had a labyrinth of extra victorian built drains that channeled excess water into a vast underground cavern.

Rather irrelevant imo, unless you have such a natural formation underground as the cost of digging out such a structure would presumably be prohibitive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Heard this on the 6 o'clock news tonight, They seem to think that many of the floods have been caused due to buildings having being built on flood plains, causing the river to narrow over the years.

I agree that more housing needs to be built but a relaxation of planning laws is not the way to go unless we want to see a repeat of this flooding year after year.

There is only so far we can go on building into the natural surroundings until natural disasters like we have seen the past week become common place.

Boll0x to that. How about we design buildings with flooding in mind if they are placed in a flood ares (like every single other european country). For example, to limit damage, build three storey buildings with the living areas on the top two with the lower floor occupying garage and storage? No carpets or expensive electronics to fix. Yes, your car may need a valet afterwards and a possible engine change, but I bet its a damn sight cheaper than the alternative.

Or, how about building estates built with a surrounding 10 foot berm? all that soil they normally level has to go somewhere, and I bet it gets landfilled. So why not put it to use?

Flooding is only a problem if you dont think laterally, and allow the envirofacists to rule your life. Oh, or you have a vested interest in ensuring prices carry on rising due to massive supply problems <_<

Edited by mbga9pgf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Boll0x to that. How about we design buildings with flooding in mind if they are placed in a flood ares (like every single other european country). For example, to limit damage, build three storey buildings with the living areas on the top two with the lower floor occupying garage and storage? No carpets or expensive electronics to fix. Yes, your car may need a valet afterwards and a possible engine change, but I bet its a damn sight cheaper than the alternative.

Or, how about building estates built with a surrounding 10 foot berm? all that soil they normally level has to go somewhere, and I bet it gets landfilled. So why not put it to use?

Flooding is only a problem if you dont think laterally, and allow the envirofacists to rule your life. Oh, or you have a vested interest in ensuring prices carry on rising due to massive supply problems <_<

Bolllocks to all that malarky...just build quick, dirty, cheap houses on floodplains without any amelioration measueres whatsoever cos it cuts into your profit margins and when the EA object then bung a few envelopes the councillors way and it'll go through on the nod....much cheaper like that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It makes sense. Rain that flows down drains will get into rivers a lot quicker than rain that gradually sinks through the soil.

Therefore, ironically, flash flooding is much more likely when water is diverted from built up areas by the man-made drainage systems.

I agree, these places in yorkshire that have flooded twice in a week - simply do not flood. York & selby flood and always have done, but leeds, sheffield, rotherham, wakefield and doncaster don't.

btw, the rain wasn't that heavy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Heard this on the 6 o'clock news tonight, They seem to think that many of the floods have been caused due to buildings having being built on flood plains, causing the river to narrow over the years.

I agree that more housing needs to be built but a relaxation of planning laws is not the way to go unless we want to see a repeat of this flooding year after year.

There is only so far we can go on building into the natural surroundings until natural disasters like we have seen the past week become common place.

One of the problems is that the EPAs flood data is outdated so it is hard to judge cumulative impacts of incremental development. Another problem is that developers and local councillors (who take the decisions on many planning apps) dont seem to give a f%&k. Build now, worry later!! :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Would love to see and analysis of the builders' landbanks to see how much is on floodplains.

As for the government, they dont give a rats **** about the environment, quality of life, overcrowding, congestion as their polcies are a prime cause of all of those. Density guidelines if anything are exacerbating the problem - all concrete and tarmac and not much else in new developments.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Heard this on the 6 o'clock news tonight, They seem to think that many of the floods have been caused due to buildings having being built on flood plains, causing the river to narrow over the years.

I agree that more housing needs to be built but a relaxation of planning laws is not the way to go unless we want to see a repeat of this flooding year after year.

That's a strange conclusion to draw. Isn't it the strictness of our current planning laws which is causing so much development on inner-city brownfield flood plains?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That's a strange conclusion to draw. Isn't it the strictness of our current planning laws which is causing so much development on inner-city brownfield flood plains?

Most larger developments should now be equipped with SUDS to collect and drain the surface water through retention ponds. These are relatively new and probably wont have much beneficial impact until they are more common place. These floods are probably the price for so much careless development in the past.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Most larger developments should now be equipped with SUDS to collect and drain the surface water through retention ponds. These are relatively new and probably wont have much beneficial impact until they are more common place. These floods are probably the price for so much careless development in the past.

Even better if such retention ponds could be used as reed beds filtering grey water & in some cases black water for re-use in garden or toilet flushing use.

Save money via less water meter charges & presumably such water would be exempt from hose pipe bans etc.

info

http://www.ciwem.org/resources/water/reuse.asp

books on the subject

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Water-Sky-Michael-...1583&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_ss_b/203-...o.y=0&Go=Go

Edited by Saving For a Space Ship

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The answer is simple - waterproof houses. Shut the door and let the flood go down in its own time.

Or houses/flats on stilts, simple. There is a new build development in Woolwich which is built on stilts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Or houses/flats on stilts, simple. There is a new build development in Woolwich which is built on stilts.

And a second door on the 1st floor, for when arriving by boat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I agree, these places in yorkshire that have flooded twice in a week - simply do not flood. York & selby flood and always have done, but leeds, sheffield, rotherham, wakefield and doncaster don't.

btw, the rain wasn't that heavy.

Yes. I agree. My Dad was born in Doncaster and I was born in Wakefield and most of my relatives still live there. In 60 year non of them have had any experience of flooding.

It is a combination of factors in my view. Houses being built in flood plains, more gardens being tarmaced over to park cars on, more massive out of town shopping centres with acres of car parks, ancient field drains being blocked by housing developments, streasm being blocked by rubbish and overgrown trees, so many things have changed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yes. I agree. My Dad was born in Doncaster and I was born in Wakefield and most of my relatives still live there. In 60 year non of them have had any experience of flooding.

It is a combination of factors in my view. Houses being built in flood plains, more gardens being tarmaced over to park cars on, more massive out of town shopping centres with acres of car parks, ancient field drains being blocked by housing developments, streasm being blocked by rubbish and overgrown trees, so many things have changed.

The planning system and environmental regulations should stop many of these things happening in new developments. However, it is the small incremental changes (over which there is no control) such as tarmacing over gardens for driveways that is probably having a colossal cumulative impact. And also that the planning system ain't that great at delivering what its meant to.

The Netherlands seems to have got its flooding problems of the past under control and part of that country is below sea level. Makes this woeful country look pretty useless in comparison.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • 356 The Prime Minister stated that there were three Brexit options available to the UK:

    1. 1. Which of the Prime Minister's options would you choose?


      • Leave with the negotiated deal
      • Remain
      • Leave with no deal



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.