Royal Mail Strike On 29 June

[The Ayatollah Buggeri]

It looks like there's going to be no backing down on this one.

Since the part-privatisation of the Royal Mail, almost all the profit-generating elements of the business have been squeezed by technology and commercial competition. Private couriers have taken over a lot of parcel business, and also handle junk mail apart from the 'last mile' delivery. A lot of routine communication which would have been handled by post only a short while ago is now done electronically (I don't even pay any bills by posting cheques anymore). This has left the Royal Mail with the loss-making part: deliveries to private addresses and collections from post boxes. This simply can't be automated or the cost cut through technologies - you need human beings walking through towns and cities, sticking mail through letterboxes. So Crozier is trying to reduce the cost base by paying them less and axing Saturday deliveries.

The unions are calling his bluff and striking anyway. My theory is that they think they've got the Royal Mail (and by extension, the government) between a rock and a hard place. If the strikes go through, then the only options for saving the business are politically unpalatable: end the universal postage charge (i.e. charge a lot more to deliver to, say, Barra than to Birmingham), stick up the price of stamps, close more post offices, or reduce deliveries and collections even further (to, say, one a week).

So do the unions therefore think they have the government over a barrel, just like Scargill did in 1984? That all they have to do is carry on the strikes (a few around Christmas would do the job), and eventually the government will be forced to do a Railtrack and renationalise Royal Mail, because there simply is not a viable business case for any private sector competition offering 'last mile' deliveries on the scale that Royal Mail currently does?

And if so, are we likely to see other unions following suit, thereby causing wage inflation and possibly sustaining HPI in the long term?

[DEATH]

Would anyone be bothered if they only delivered, say, 3 times a week?

Monday, Wednesday, Friday? Maybe recorded/special delivery items every day.

Businesses could go pick it up themselves if they wanted it more often.

[Smell the Fear]

Crozier and the board have been enjoying multi-million pound packages for the past few years, and there are hundreds of managers receiving £100k+ bonuses.

Can you really blame the workers when they are offered a real terms pay cut?

[Its time to buy]

balls, my parcel hasnt arrived yet

[Wad]

Winter of our discontent. Secondary banking crisis. Three day week (for post office delivery anyway). Sounds like old Labour are coming back in style.

[The Colour]

Private couriers have taken over a lot of parcel business....

Thank holy Jebus for that

[dnd]

just had floods in our area

lot of public transport out, electricity is intermittant/off, some traffic lights not working

...and tomorrow is the postal strike

felt like looking into the future...

[Warwick-Watcher]

So do the unions therefore think they have the government over a barrel, just like Scargill did in 1984? That all they have to do is carry on the strikes (a few around Christmas would do the job), and eventually the government will be forced to do a Railtrack and renationalise Royal Mail, because there simply is not a viable business case for any private sector competition offering 'last mile' deliveries on the scale that Royal Mail currently does?

Renaiotnalise Royal Mail? I don't remember seeing the sale of that. Where can I buy stock - FTSE?

[The Ayatollah Buggeri]

Can you really blame the workers when they are offered a real terms pay cut?

I wasn't trying to pass a judgment one way or the other. There are arguments for and against that one. For blaming them = they're currently paid a lot more, in real terms, than their colleagues in the private sector. Against = they get to do the nastiest, most physically demanding part of the job, i.e. hauling heavy sacks of mail up and down residential streets and in all weathers.

I was wondering if this marks the start of a wave of industrial disputes that will result in a significant effect on the economy, either through lost productivity, wage inflation or both.

[Smell the Fear]

I wasn't trying to pass a judgment one way or the other. There are arguments for and against that one. For blaming them = they're currently paid a lot more, in real terms, than their colleagues in the private sector. Against = they get to do the nastiest, most physically demanding part of the job, i.e. hauling heavy sacks of mail up and down residential streets and in all weathers.

I was wondering if this marks the start of a wave of industrial disputes that will result in a significant effect on the economy, either through lost productivity, wage inflation or both.

A postie earns a basic salary of about £15k, they take home more but that's through overtime.

The thing is, if housing was more affordable (which is an easy problem to solve) none of these issues would arise.

[Realistbear]

TB is going to enjoy watching his arch-enemy squirm so soon into his honeymoon period as PM.

[Andy Jones]

Posties earn near £20k. It can be done by a muppet with one weeks training possessing two legs.

Theft is rife.

Change is coming. Privatise the lot and we'll all benefit.

ANDY

[Smell the Fear]

Posties earn near £20k. It can be done by a muppet with one weeks training possessing two legs.

Theft is rife.

Change is coming. Privatise the lot and we'll all benefit.

ANDY

Thanks ANDY, that's the problem sorted then.

[Andy Jones]

I wasn't aware I was charged with sorting out the Royal Mail..

Happily the current management are taking the approach that I would do. Cut it to the core specialisation of last mile delivery and collection Plus lucrative marketing division and slash the terms and conditions and Union status of the employees who are no longer skilled or respected by their customers.

ANDY

[CrashedOutAndBurned]

Posties earn near £20k. It can be done by a muppet with one weeks training possessing two legs.

Theft is rife.

Change is coming. Privatise the lot and we'll all benefit.

ANDY

Income

Royal Mail offers a basic wage of £256 a week to delivery staff, which amounts to an annual salary of around £13,300. Those working in London earn £15,900 a year. Staff also earn an additional £100 on average each week in overtime and pay supplements for night and weekend work.

bit out of date

It's pretty dismal but thanks to McDonaldisation of the labour market and mass immigration you could get in done for minimum wage in a flash.

I remember during the fire dispute a few years back when they wanted 30k these low-paid guys at work trying to find out how they could get to be a a fire trainee for £18k (they were on 12k, so it seemed a king's ransom).

Ultimately, the problem is THE COST OF HOUSING/REAL INFLATION. Back in 1999 a girl I knew bought a flat in the London fringe for 45k (120k+ in today's money) on a single shop assistant's wage of 11k. If there'd been no boom 15k would be a living wage and a couple on 15k each could easily have a basic life, even have a kid.

To hear some people on this board you'd think 30k was the minimum wage, 50k was average and 60k nothing special.

It's hard to overstate just how completely screwed society is thanks to the debt boom.

Edited June 28, 2007 by CrashedOutAndBurned

[Grime- skint wouldbe ftb]

27% pay rise for doing a job a monkey could do. They've gotta be kidding!

[Tatty Teddy]

27% pay rise for doing a job a monkey could do. They've gotta be kidding!

I want a job like that....I've not had a pay rise for 18 months.....

[jackalope]

It's getting quite difficult to see what the point of Royal Mail is. Most documents will be transmitted electronically and the big courier companies can do all the parcel deliveries. What's left?

[Tatty Teddy]

It's getting quite difficult to see what the point of Royal Mail is. Most documents will be transmitted electronically and the big courier companies can do all the parcel deliveries. What's left?

Junk Mail!!!

[BoomBoom]

Ahh, the typical working class idiocy. So because *your* wages are static you'll decry people fighting for a better wage. Why not attack your respective employers instead?

[Wad]

I used to live in a village where the postman lived as well. He delivered mail to four neighbouring villages plus farms in between. In his spare time he was also a cobbler and local handyman. He knew everyone and did the job for fifty years.

I watched El Postino recently - the hero got paid a pittance to ride up a mountain to deliver mail to Pablo Neruda. He got the girl and died in a riot before he got to read a poem he had written. I cried at the end.

My kids and me love Postman Pat so much we wore the tapes out. You do all know the song..yes you know you do!

Watch the pictures and listen to the words of W. H. Auden in this famous Night Mail short video by the GPO film unit. It makes the hair stand up on my neck:

Seems that someone in the management of the Post office lost sight of that spirit of service and the special meaning that a delivery of post still has in many people's hearts. I would say that it used to be the most loved public service we have.

[Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable]

A postie earns a basic salary of about £15k, they take home more but that's through overtime.

The thing is, if housing was more affordable (which is an easy problem to solve) none of these issues would arise.

Exactly. And it's not as if it's difficult to print a bit more money..... it's not as if it's backed by anything.

This great idea that privatised businesses are better than nationalised ones is just a game.

Kickbacks.

I like the Royal Mail and want to see it kept.

Edited June 28, 2007 by DissipatedYouthIsValuable

[huw]

If the strikes go through, then the only options for saving the business are politically unpalatable: end the universal postage charge (i.e. charge a lot more to deliver to, say, Barra than to Birmingham), stick up the price of stamps, close more post offices, or reduce deliveries and collections even further (to, say, one a week).

There you have it: the government is pursuing three incompatible goals:

1. Privatise profitable parts of the business

2. Keep costs within the public-sector rump low

3. Keep the current universal postal service.

The government need to decide which two of the above they want, and communicate their decision to Royal Mail management.

[Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable]

There you have it: the government is pursuing three incompatible goals:

1. Privatise profitable parts of the business

2. Keep costs within the public-sector rump low

3. Keep the current universal postal service.

The government need to decide which two of the above they want, and communicate their decision to Royal Mail management.

Are there ANY public sector organisations that the government is capable of running sensibly at all?

I get the feeling that they all just take whichever backhander is offered from corporate business and ****** the populace over.

[steve99]

It looks like there's going to be no backing down on this one.

Since the part-privatisation of the Royal Mail, almost all the profit-generating elements of the business have been squeezed by technology and commercial competition. Private couriers have taken over a lot of parcel business, and also handle junk mail apart from the 'last mile' delivery. A lot of routine communication which would have been handled by post only a short while ago is now done electronically (I don't even pay any bills by posting cheques anymore). This has left the Royal Mail with the loss-making part: deliveries to private addresses and collections from post boxes. This simply can't be automated or the cost cut through technologies - you need human beings walking through towns and cities, sticking mail through letterboxes. So Crozier is trying to reduce the cost base by paying them less and axing Saturday deliveries.

The unions are calling his bluff and striking anyway. My theory is that they think they've got the Royal Mail (and by extension, the government) between a rock and a hard place. If the strikes go through, then the only options for saving the business are politically unpalatable: end the universal postage charge (i.e. charge a lot more to deliver to, say, Barra than to Birmingham), stick up the price of stamps, close more post offices, or reduce deliveries and collections even further (to, say, one a week).

So do the unions therefore think they have the government over a barrel, just like Scargill did in 1984? That all they have to do is carry on the strikes (a few around Christmas would do the job), and eventually the government will be forced to do a Railtrack and renationalise Royal Mail, because there simply is not a viable business case for any private sector competition offering 'last mile' deliveries on the scale that Royal Mail currently does?

And if so, are we likely to see other unions following suit, thereby causing wage inflation and possibly sustaining HPI in the long term?

Lets hope the unions go down this track, and lets hope more people get unionised, the managment greed over the last few years has become excessive and beyond all reason and these people have no right to moralise about workers demands while fillling their own offshore tax free bank accounts, whilst at the same time workers have been told to fuk off when trying to achieve cost of living increases. Workers in many industries have also been told to fuk off as their jobs are being sent to India or China. As for causing wage inflation, all inflation starts with the production of new money, not wage demands, they are just a symptom, money supply in the UK has been increasing at the rate of about 12% per anum for several years now, price rises in goods and wages are now just trying to catch up. As for sustaining HPI via the continuation of the inflation (money supply growth) I suspect that will be the aim of government as that is what they have done every time in the past under similar conditions as we are now heading into. (ie devalue the currencey to keep nominal asset prices stable)

Edited June 28, 2007 by steve99