Are We Being Deceived By Overseas Property Developers?

[Property Rental Profits]

I’ve recently been discussing with a few well know Overseas Property Developers about some off-plan and ready to move in apartments in Bulgaria and I can’t believe what I am hearing!

Am I the only one who feels this way?

The phrases “unbelievable”, “never to be repeated” and “never been a better time to invest” sales patter are extremely convincing to the less investment savvy. However, I am beginning to find some of them using an approach that is downright deceptive in the way the investment opportunity is being presented.

For sure, there is a lot of development going on and the prices are still attractive but those investors seeking to buy on a buy-to-let basis are surely being taken for a ride.

In one of the developments, over 70% of the units already sold, have been purchased on a buy-to-let basis - people who need to rent out their property to meet the ongoing financial commitments of a mortgage. I was told on not one, not two but three occasions by the sales manager, the rental proposition and demand is extremely high and that I should easily be looking to secure between 25-30 weeks of rental income each year. This is a blatant lie!!!

Achieving 25-30 weeks of rental income each year is possible for some but not in a development that is saturated with this level of competition. With the saturation of rental properties in such a small area (and this was just one of about 12 new developments in the local area) I predict that for many buy-to-let investors the outcome will be financial ruin.

Has anyone else experienced the same?

[OFS Spain]

Has anyone else experienced the same?

^^^

Just about anyone who has bought a "buy to let" off plan property in Spain in the last 5 years.

Beware the saturated market!

Edited June 27, 2007 by OFS Spain

[catara]

I’ve recently been discussing with a few well know Overseas Property Developers about some off-plan and ready to move in apartments in Bulgaria and I can’t believe what I am hearing!

Am I the only one who feels this way?

The phrases “unbelievable”, “never to be repeated” and “never been a better time to invest” sales patter are extremely convincing to the less investment savvy. However, I am beginning to find some of them using an approach that is downright deceptive in the way the investment opportunity is being presented.

For sure, there is a lot of development going on and the prices are still attractive but those investors seeking to buy on a buy-to-let basis are surely being taken for a ride.

In one of the developments, over 70% of the units already sold, have been purchased on a buy-to-let basis - people who need to rent out their property to meet the ongoing financial commitments of a mortgage. I was told on not one, not two but three occasions by the sales manager, the rental proposition and demand is extremely high and that I should easily be looking to secure between 25-30 weeks of rental income each year. This is a blatant lie!!!

Achieving 25-30 weeks of rental income each year is possible for some but not in a development that is saturated with this level of competition. With the saturation of rental properties in such a small area (and this was just one of about 12 new developments in the local area) I predict that for many buy-to-let investors the outcome will be financial ruin.

Has anyone else experienced the same?

WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

People have used their miraculously obtained equity to make adventerous and quite bad investment all over Europe and the world. Now most of them will lose lots and lots of money. Money they never really had but were lured by sharky estate agents to "invest".

Everybody who bought in the last 2 years in almost all countries in the world will lose tons of money.

Investment in real estate should be made by professionals not by every Joe-six-packer!

[dogbox]

Its all down to choosing developments that have the potential to extend the season. Its doubtful any Bulgarian developments have this potential.

When investing in resorts as opposed to cities (where 12 m rent is assured) I seek the following;

+ On site 18 hole golf courses

+ A large array of leisure facilities - sufficient to draw people regardless of weather expectations

+ On site beach

+ Long natural summer season

+ Short flights

I only found this in Morocco where many 5 star mega resorts are now underway in what is becomming a very well planned and careful tourism expansion.

[dogbox]

WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

People have used their miraculously obtained equity to make adventerous and quite bad investment all over Europe and the world. Now most of them will lose lots and lots of money. Money they never really had but were lured by sharky estate agents to "invest".

Everybody who bought in the last 2 years in almost all countries in the world will lose tons of money.

Investment in real estate should be made by professionals not by every Joe-six-packer!

Most people Ive spoken with are happy with thier overseas adventures.

Professionals do not have a monopoly on making money. Where I work on the Essex border people are dripping with money yet the vast majority are very simple folk who wouldnt even know who Shakespear is. What they dont have in brains they make up for in common sense and business savvy.

Professionals - consider fund managers. The vast majority delivered far poorer returns than did the average B2Ler in the last 15 years.

[The Soup Dragon]

Managed to post above twice ..... this is 2nd post, just deleting content via editing.

Edited June 27, 2007 by The Soup Dragon

[The Soup Dragon]

Professionals - consider fund managers. The vast majority delivered far poorer returns than did the average B2Ler in the last 15 years.

I don't have figures to back this up, but can well believe it for traditional funds*. I read an article perhaps 15 years ago where a handfull of traditional fund managers were given an imaginery pot of money to spend on stocks and shares listed on the London Stick Exchange. The rules were simple. They could not spend more than the imaginery amount they had been given and couldn't sell once selections of stocks, and level of investment in each, had been decided. They also had to justify their choices, as they would for one of their funds. The winner would be the individual whose portfolio would be worth most at the end of a set period (think it was a year.) The fund managers thought they were in competition with each other. They weren't. Unbeknown the them, the organisers then gave half a dozen chimps a newspaper listing the companies that could be invested in and a pencil. They allowed the chimps to stab the paper ten times each with pencil and one tenth of each chimp's pot of money was assigned to each of the companies that were closest to the pencil marks on the paper. And yes, the chimps picks did, on average, better than the fund managers! My thoery for the outcome was that the fund managers had to justify their decision and so invested more heavily in safer FTSE 100 companies. The chimps 'invested' more randomly, including a greater mix of safe and riskier stock.

*Not so for closed funds. Until recently these had been the domain of the rich. Returns were normally very good. Now with increased awareness of these funds, and lower entry fees, the funds are being subscribed to by a widening cross section of the population.

[The Soup Dragon]

Sorry, not having much joy posting here .... I can count, honest.

[Guest_ringledman_*]

I’ve recently been discussing with a few well know Overseas Property Developers about some off-plan and ready to move in apartments in Bulgaria and I can’t believe what I am hearing!

Am I the only one who feels this way?

The phrases “unbelievable”, “never to be repeated” and “never been a better time to invest” sales patter are extremely convincing to the less investment savvy. However, I am beginning to find some of them using an approach that is downright deceptive in the way the investment opportunity is being presented.

For sure, there is a lot of development going on and the prices are still attractive but those investors seeking to buy on a buy-to-let basis are surely being taken for a ride.

In one of the developments, over 70% of the units already sold, have been purchased on a buy-to-let basis - people who need to rent out their property to meet the ongoing financial commitments of a mortgage. I was told on not one, not two but three occasions by the sales manager, the rental proposition and demand is extremely high and that I should easily be looking to secure between 25-30 weeks of rental income each year. This is a blatant lie!!!

Achieving 25-30 weeks of rental income each year is possible for some but not in a development that is saturated with this level of competition. With the saturation of rental properties in such a small area (and this was just one of about 12 new developments in the local area) I predict that for many buy-to-let investors the outcome will be financial ruin.

Has anyone else experienced the same?

Anything quoted by an agent in Bulgaria is probably a lie.

There is no resale market there, no local market and a very poor rental market.

Its probably one of the worst places you could possibly buy. Hyped to the hilt.

[catara]

Most people Ive spoken with are happy with thier overseas adventures.

Professionals do not have a monopoly on making money. Where I work on the Essex border people are dripping with money yet the vast majority are very simple folk who wouldnt even know who Shakespear is. What they dont have in brains they make up for in common sense and business savvy.

Professionals - consider fund managers. The vast majority delivered far poorer returns than did the average B2Ler in the last 15 years.

Tell me who your frieds are to tell you who you are.

Your friends will lose money big time. You do not invest anything so you won't lose anything. Your only problem is that nobody will be interested in your lies anymore.

[catara]

The chimps 'invested' more randomly, including a greater mix of safe and riskier stock.

There is no difference between chimps and many people who "invested" lately. Both do not know where the place they "invested" is, both do not real money (the latter have funny money).

[Guest_ringledman_*]

There is no difference between chimps and many people who "invested" lately. Both do not know where the place they "invested" is, both do not real money (the latter have funny money).

So what are you doing to secure your future when clearly investing is not for the average joe? Relying on the government to look after you?!!!!

There are normal people who invest and will do well out of it.

Returning to the original post, Bulgaria is not one of those places where people will make any money from their so called 'ivestment'.

[catara]

So what are you doing to secure your future when clearly investing is not for the average joe? Relying on the government to look after you?!!!!

NOt investing in property now is a no-brainer. In 5 years from now it might be another story.

[dogbox]

NOt investing in property now is a no-brainer. In 5 years from now it might be another story.

5 years from now you will have missed a great deal of upward momentum.

Many markets are only just in thier infancy or just comming out of thier down cycle.

I would'nt think it prudent to tar the whole world with same brush. By all means avoid the UK and Spain.

I think many of us invest also in traditional equities via funds and unit trusts but to rely on these un geared investments is unlikely to produce anything worthwhile except in the very long term and even then this un leveredged approach is unlikely to have added significant value.

Property should be PART of ones overall portfolio.

Not being at the property party is a cast iron guarantee to missing out in an enviroment of rapidl expanding world growth and population.

[catara]

5 years from now you will have missed a great deal of upward momentum.

Many markets are only just in thier infancy or just comming out of thier down cycle.

I would'nt think it prudent to tar the whole world with same brush. By all means avoid the UK and Spain.

I think many of us invest also in traditional equities via funds and unit trusts but to rely on these un geared investments is unlikely to produce anything worthwhile except in the very long term and even then this un leveredged approach is unlikely to have added significant value.

Property should be PART of ones overall portfolio.

Not being at the property party is a cast iron guarantee to missing out in an enviroment of rapidl expanding world growth and population.

Lies, hypes and bull-s**t. Can you do any better?

[Spongebob]

Lies, hypes and bull-s**t. Can you do any better?

Has someone been hurt recently??

[catara]

Has someone been hurt recently??

Yeah, Dobgbox was hit by the Real Estate Crash! And he is bleeding badly like any other person with Vested Interest in a dying breed.

[Spongebob]

Yeah, Dobgbox was hit by the Real Estate Crash! And he is bleeding badly like any other person with Vested Interest in a dying breed.

Bernard Manning lives and breathes!

I disagree completely; I wont go into why. Id rather sit here counting my money

[catara]

Bernard Manning lives and breathes!

I disagree completely; I wont go into why. Id rather sit here counting my money

Somebody who believes Brasov is at commuting distance from Bucharest must make lots of money indeed.

[Spongebob]

Somebody who believes Brasov is at commuting distance from Bucharest must make lots of money indeed.

Ill take that as a supposed low blow. I have boxed protection down there so it doesnt hurt. Having a good business contact who was born and bred in Brasov and now lives in Bucharest helps...

Edited July 3, 2007 by Spongebob

[Anthony7]

Dogbox

Come clean. 2 questions for you

What estate agents do you work for? and

Have you actually ever bought any investment property?

thanks in advance

ps i own a property portfolio of over 475 buy to lets with over £4 million worth of free equity and £750,000 clean income per month. I gues the beauty of talkin myself up on an internet forum is the fact that you will never know if this is true or not

[Nitrode]

I am extremely disappointed at the tone of this forum recently. Please can those childish posters go and vent their emotions elsewhere - not on an overseas forum where people come for help and advice.

Please lets get back to being grown-ups people.........

[Nitrode]

Please could one of the mods get rid of this idiot?

Well said Spongebob....please could we get this imbecile off this site!!

Edited July 11, 2007 by Nitrode

[Spongebob]

Please could one of the mods get rid of this idiot?

Well said Spongebob....please could we get this imbecile off this site!!

Its ok Nitrode; I doubt we will see him again. Drunks dont have a lot of money so he has probably sold his computer for another can of Skol Super!

[dogbox]

Dogbox

Come clean. 2 questions for you

What estate agents do you work for? and

Have you actually ever bought any investment property?

thanks in advance

ps i own a property portfolio of over 475 buy to lets with over £4 million worth of free equity and £750,000 clean income per month. I gues the beauty of talkin myself up on an internet forum is the fact that you will never know if this is true or not

I work for no one.

I've bought the odd thing here and there.

If you have 475 properties then your equity is appaulingly low at about £8000 per property. One whiff of recession will exstinguish such low margins. Any muppet can go on buying high numbers of properties - all it takes is a dim brain and a giant over - ego. I saw this in the last crash. Supposed millionairs becomming npaupers over night to due being lead by thier egos.