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If you had the choice to stay in Europe or move to the US what would you choose.

The HPC in the US has begun and it is getting worse.

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If you had the choice to stay in Europe or move to the US what would you choose.

The HPC in the US has begun and it is getting worse.

Eastern Europe rocks.

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I'd avoid the US like plague

Yep, why move to a violent police state with millions of Christian fundamentalist morons? Europe isn't perfect but it's far preferable to the USA which is in decline anyway as a superpower.

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If you had the choice to stay in Europe or move to the US what would you choose.

The HPC in the US has begun and it is getting worse.

We came back to Europe. We decided not to raise our kids in the US, even though my wife is from there.

The majority of Americans prefer their version of reality to be scripted by Hollywood. That's why their foreign policy stinks. They're all living in a dream world, placated by mass media that feeds them a complete story about themselves and that's the way they like it.

Those Americans who do have some grasp of reality will be handed their country on a silver plate over the coming years, but only because the big gingerbread house is about to melt in the rain. Between now and then, it's going to get ugly.

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Guest grumpy-old-man
We came back to Europe. We decided not to raise our kids in the US, even though my wife is from there.

The majority of Americans prefer their version of reality to be scripted by Hollywood. That's why their foreign policy stinks. They're all living in a dream world, placated by mass media that feeds them a complete story about themselves and that's the way they like it.

Those Americans who do have some grasp of reality will be handed their country on a silver plate over the coming years, but only because the big gingerbread house is about to melt in the rain. Between now and then, it's going to get ugly.

:D

I like that one TTID.

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Don't go to the USA!!!

We live there right now and plan on moving back to England.

Our main concern is the extremely high cost of health care.

Even if you have insurance, if the insurance company won't pay up, YOU are liable for the bill in most cases.

My wife went in hospital for preterm labour. She was there for seven days. We had a battle to get the insurance company to pay. They said

her stay was not medically necessary, even though she was admitted for preterm labour, had polyhydramnios and would have been induced.

Total bill: $52,000.

Fortunately, the insurance company has a contract with the hospital not to bill patients if they won't pay, but not every hospital does this.

You also need pre-authorization for almost all surgery. You pay more if your hospital/doctor is not in the health insurance company's network.

The US is a great place to live, plenty of open space, large houses - BUT, almost everyone is one major illness away from going broke.

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Europe

My problem with the UK is that it has become so much like the USA. I could have gone to live in the USA twenty years ago, I decided not to cos I preferred the UK.

Today I would be indifferent about this, and probably choose the USA and UK interchangeably (health care costs aside)

Europe may have a better future. At least until global warming causes mass migration from southern Europe to the North.

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Europe is toast. The demographics suck, it's deliberately destroying its own culture, the welfare states are unaffordable, the EU government wants to recreate the USSR, and as oil runs out you're going to have masses of starving Africans and Arabs just across the border.

America is in big trouble too, but at least it's more defensible with wide oceans on two sides.

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Europe is toast. The demographics suck, it's deliberately destroying its own culture, the welfare states are unaffordable, the EU government wants to recreate the USSR, and as oil runs out you're going to have masses of starving Africans and Arabs just across the border.

America is in big trouble too, but at least it's more defensible with wide oceans on two sides.

James Kunstler is not always entirely rational, but he does have some good insights into American suburbia and over-dependence on cars. It's also worth seeking out and watching the documentary "The End of Suburbia".

Europe has infrastructure and living arrangements inherited from the days of lower energy intensity. An energy crunch would see population displacements, people dying of cold and starving etc., but once things stabilise Europe will have canals, railways, mass transit, coastal market towns that still have wharves...

America is a creature of the oil age; early infrastructure that offered an alternative to the car was either allowed to rot (Amtrack) or bought up by vested interests and closed down.

America also has a lot more guns in the hands of a lot more loonies.

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James Kunstler is not always entirely rational, but he does have some good insights into American suburbia and over-dependence on cars. It's also worth seeking out and watching the documentary "The End of Suburbia".

'Suburbs' are where people used to live before huge cities became viable; we called them 'villages' and 'towns' in those days.

I still don't understand why anyone thinks that big cities will somehow be more sustainable in a future of expensive energy than smaller communities surrounded by farm-land. If they were, the human race would have been living in big cities for thousands of years.

An energy crunch would see population displacements, people dying of cold and starving etc., but once things stabilise Europe will have canals, railways, mass transit, coastal market towns that still have wharves...

You're assuming things will 'stabilise'; we've had sixty years of relative peace, I don't think the next sixty are going to be much like that. And all those things you're talking about will be useless if hordes of starving Africans and Arabs decide to walk into Europe to loot what they can take and destroy what they can't.

America also has a lot more guns in the hands of a lot more loonies.

Another reason why it's more likely to survive in a dangerous future than a Europe where people have demanded that they be disarmed.

Edited by MarkG

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Love the sweeping generalisations in some of the replies so far....

"If you had the choice to stay in Europe or move to the US what would you choose.

US. Briefly, I left the UK in 2001. Felt I was getting ripped off, sick of the British weather and rapidly disappearing morals.

The HPC in the US has begun and it is getting worse."

Yes, but not in every state! I live in Raleigh, North Carolina with strong job growth, affordable housing and great, seasonal weather. All the HPC news mainly reflects the situation in California, Florida and some of the dying big cities like Detroit, Pittsburgh.

"The majority of Americans prefer their version of reality to be scripted by Hollywood. That's why their foreign policy stinks. They're all living in a dream world, placated by mass media that feeds them a complete story about themselves and that's the way they like it."

Yes, I agree but the UK is only a few years behind in this matter. The UK are brainwashed by trash newspapers (really soft porn), trash TV (soaps and reality shows) and our scumbag politicians.

America may be losing its status as a Superpower, but as someone else states, we are geographically more secure than Europe or the UK.

...and all this nonsense about guns and christian morons. Come on guys! Stop believing what you read. Yes, there's guns. Most shootings are gang related or crimes of passion and yes, there's loonatic bible bashers but most Americans aren't religious. I feel a hell of a lot safer in the US, than in the UK. I can leave my car and house unlocked and no scumbag will steal my things.

If the US have Christian morons, wouldn't you say that the UK has morons of a different religion? I'm sure you know what I am referring to.

Yes, the health care system here is the biggest worry. But I dont read or hear stories on a daily basis of bankrupcies because of health care. At least when I see a doctor, the treatment is top class and my doctor speaks English. If I cant afford it, then I will go to Britain....and catch MRSA (or am I just believing the papers too much?) Musn't do that must I.

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I think a move is fine if you have connections or a particular love of the country. Moving because you think it will solve your problems could turn out to be a rude awakening. The US has probs of its own, taxes are lower but you have to pay out more, you get a hugely massive whopping 10, yep count 'em 10 days holiday in most jobs. As in the UK there are of course nice and not so nice places to live. The idea that the whole county is full of religious nuts, or gun toting madmen is just not true. So do your research!!

I was out there for 3 months or so and to be frank - I just didnt like the place. I particularly disliked the car orientated nature of the society. I went to one shopping "district" where you had to get back in the car and drive to each new shop. I got stared at for walking back from the grocery store like it was just the weirdest thing to do.

But there is some cool stuff too. I went to an indy car track and had a great ady out, they know how to do a big sporting event! I certainly ate well too!

Anyway, the point I always make is that life is tough where ever you are, if you have issues in your life - uprooting isnt going to be a magic answer. But hey if you love adventure - why not go... :)

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'Suburbs' are where people used to live before huge cities became viable; we called them 'villages' and 'towns' in those days.

The suburbs that Kunstler characterises as the "greatest misallocation of resources in the history of the world" are not villages and towns, they're ribbon strip-mall and dormitory developments strung out along highways and entirely dependent on cars. What makes a town is trade, industry or commerce of some kind; what makes a strip mall is a bunch of cheap stuff from China.

I still don't understand why anyone thinks that big cities will somehow be more sustainable in a future of expensive energy than smaller communities surrounded by farm-land. If they were, the human race would have been living in big cities for thousands of years.

Cities will be in trouble too (we will all be in trouble) but there's a lot of sense in being somewhere where you don't need a car, in a home that doesn't take much energy to heat or cool, and in a climate that's not too arid and that's livable without aircon. If you're relying on being in an agricultural area then make sure it's one that can keep going without intensive energy inputs for fertiliser and irrigation.

You're assuming things will 'stabilise'; we've had sixty years of relative peace, I don't think the next sixty are going to be much like that. And all those things you're talking about will be useless if hordes of starving Africans and Arabs decide to walk into Europe to loot what they can take and destroy what they can't.

Another reason why it's more likely to survive in a dangerous future than a Europe where people have demanded that they be disarmed.

If things get really bad then a lot of people will die and at some point the population will stabilise. Personally I'd sooner be in a place with a heritage of land, climate and infrastructure that's proven to work with low populations and low energy inputs -- but I never said it would be easy anywhere <_<

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Cities will be in trouble too (we will all be in trouble) but there's a lot of sense in being somewhere where you don't need a car, in a home that doesn't take much energy to heat or cool, and in a climate that's not too arid and that's livable without aircon.

True, places like Arizona are toast too. But sane people should have already known that.

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If you had the choice to stay in Europe or move to the US what would you choose.

The HPC in the US has begun and it is getting worse.

I'll never move to the US. I like my 25 days annual leave too much. :lol: They work your ass into the ground over there, I have a lot of US friends I talk to, I wouldnt swap my life for theirs, no way.

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Europe is toast. The demographics suck, it's deliberately destroying its own culture, the welfare states are unaffordable, the EU government wants to recreate the USSR, and as oil runs out you're going to have masses of starving Africans and Arabs just across the border.

America is in big trouble too, but at least it's more defensible with wide oceans on two sides.

How terrible of those European governments to spend money on social provision, decent health care and good public transport for their populace.

They should do as the UK and Us do. Spend it on wars, nuclear weapons, domes, olympics, middle-managers, consultants.

How blessed we are.

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How terrible of those European governments to spend money on social provision, decent health care and good public transport for their populace.

Governments don't have any money of their own to spend, because they're parasitic (or, at best, symbiotic) organisms. Every penny put into those schemes has to be taken from a productive use elsewhere.

And after decades of high tax welfare states in Europe, there's an increasing lack of productive people for them to steal from combined with an excess of people who believe they have a right to 'free stuff' at other people's expense. It's much easier to pump out welfare scroungers than productive workers.

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to be more precise on my reply, 3 issues:

1. 10 days holidays per year

2. Health care system

3. General lack of culture of the population

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Yep, why move to a violent police state with millions of Christian fundamentalist morons?

My experience living there (Western Coast) was that Christianity is strong and active at the grassroots or community level. -On

Sunday the local churches are packed and many of my american neighbours (who were great neighbours by the way)

were volunteers in their churches organising summer events for kids, overseas trips for teens etc.

However most workplaces, schools, government offices etc are being scrubbed clean of any Christian influences because of the

threat of legal action against them. (I upset someone at work for wishing them a "merry christmas". I was forgiven this crime

because I was foreign and didn't know better!)

Karl Marx spoke of those who control the commanding heights.

Who is the powerful minority of the population presenting themselves as “the mainstream” through their control of powerful

institutions in the media, in entertainment, in the publishing world, in the universities etc.

I never got the impression that these commanding heights in america are owned/controlled by Christians on a mission - morons or otherwise !

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Europe or USA?. Neither if you are young and intelligent.An Aged population of these former drivers of the world economy will cause them to regress into third world status.........

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