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steve99

Where To Buy When The Crash Comes

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What some people know, and most dont, is that there is another calamity comming our way, not only have the VI's and governments set us all up for an economic bugger up, they have also encouraged us to use up the worlds resoures as quick as possible in order to get rich themselves. Much of economic growth over the last 100 years has been on the back of oil, we have probably now passed the peak production of oil world wide, not only that, demand is increasing and according to this article we are in for a bigger suprise much sooner than even the most pessimistic doomers have been predicting.

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/2689 ( the interesting bit is in the second half of the article )

When this all comes to fruition, which it will, then where will be a good place to live? In the city near transport and hopefuly work ( if you have a job that is), cause sure as sh*t you wont be driving your shiny new car to work in 5 years time, or out in the woods growing your own carrots to live on?

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Guest mattsta1964
What some people know, and most dont, is that there is another calamity comming our way, not only have the VI's and governments set us all up for an economic bugger up, they have also encouraged us to use up the worlds resoures as quick as possible in order to get rich themselves. Much of economic growth over the last 100 years has been on the back of oil, we have probably now passed the peak production of oil world wide, not only that, demand is increasing and according to this article we are in for a bigger suprise much sooner than even the most pessimistic doomers have been predicting.

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/2689 ( the interesting bit is in the second half of the article )

When this all comes to fruition, which it will, then where will be a good place to live? In the city near transport and hopefuly work ( if you have a job that is), cause sure as sh*t you wont be driving your shiny new car to work in 5 years time, or out in the woods growing your own carrots to live on?

With global debt growing exponentially and oil production peaked...........we really are in the shite!

Where to go?

Somewhere where you can eat. That's all that will be important in 20 years time

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Somewhere where you can eat. That's all that will be important in 20 years time

You could be right here. I'd suggest a first-world country with abundant natural resources (including arable land) and low population density. Canada and Australia spring to mind.

[i'm emigrating to New Zealand, but this might not be the most rational decision as house prices are ridiculously high, the economy isn't in fantastic shape and it's rather earthquake-prone. Mind you, they do great coffee and eggs benedict!]

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cause sure as sh*t you wont be driving your shiny new car to work in 5 years time,

Cars can easily run on Biofuels. The reason they dont currently is because its so expensive to convert them and get the supply chain for biofuel going into petrol stations. Same reason we still import gas from unpredictable Russia rather than going nuclear. Same reason we dont use de-salinisation plants but they do elsewher - its all because of costs. The tin box on wheels is here for a good while yet.

Edited by HPC Convert

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You could be right here. I'd suggest a first-world country with abundant natural resources (including arable land) and low population density. Canada and Australia spring to mind.

[i'm emigrating to New Zealand, but this might not be the most rational decision as house prices are ridiculously high, the economy isn't in fantastic shape and it's rather earthquake-prone. Mind you, they do great coffee and eggs benedict!]

Your taking the pi$$ arent you?!?! NZ compared to the UK has property prices which are far more sensible. OK, if you have no savings, and are expecting your salary over there to pay the mortgage, you may struggle, but compared to the uk prices are fantastic value for money!!!

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1. My decision has been to move to a not-very-wealthy small town in Lancashire (Haslingden: I also had other reasons to move here) where there is still a real sense of community. I just know that when the sh1t hits the fan I want to be in a place where people are more likely to offer each other a hand than slit each others' throat.

I would definitely want to be out of a city, because although I realise that cities have an advantage in terms of less travel, I think the issues of crime and civil unrest would be far worse in a city.

There is farmland all around me, though the soil quality is not all great (quite a lot of moorland).

2. HPC Convert: I believe that biofuels are simply a nonstarter if you consider the fossil fuel inputs (esp fertilizer created from natural gas) that go into growing them. There are many other threads on this point which I don't have the patience to point you to.

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Your taking the pi$$ arent you?!?! NZ compared to the UK has property prices which are far more sensible. OK, if you have no savings, and are expecting your salary over there to pay the mortgage, you may struggle, but compared to the uk prices are fantastic value for money!!!

I'm not joking! NZ housing is ridiculously overpriced, probably more so than the UK. Here are some stats if you want the evidence:

Median NZ annual income: $24,400 (March 2006 data)

Median NZ house price: $350,000 (June 2007 data)

Official cash interest rates are 8% and 2-year fixed mortage rates are a staggering 9.25%. :o I'll think you'll find that affordability is much worse than in the UK.

Home loans less affordable in May

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4102165a13.html' rel="external nofollow">
NZPA | Wednesday, 20 June 2007
A home loan affordability index shows
the cost of a mortgage rose in May to 79.3 per cent of the average weekly take-home pay
.

But hey, I'm not going to NZ to make money in buy-to-let!

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1. My decision has been to move to a not-very-wealthy small town in Lancashire (Haslingden: I also had other reasons to move here) where there is still a real sense of community. I just know that when the sh1t hits the fan I want to be in a place where people are more likely to offer each other a hand than slit each others' throat.

Similar here, in a rural community within walking/cycling distance of a small market town, on an ancient trade route (the house used to be an inn serving the same) and surrounded by farmland.

Here is an analysis of what we may be in for, based on what happened after the collapse of the Soviet Union, with a comparison of how the USA might fare under a similar breakdown. Essential reading for peak-oilers, or anyone who wants to understand the possibilities.

Unlike us, the Russians were used to shortages and hardships, and still had resilient coping systems.

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2. HPC Convert: I believe that biofuels are simply a nonstarter

They're a non-starter for a far better [worse?] reason.

Everyone needs food.

Food requires land to be grown

Biofuel requires land to be grown

There is a limited ammount of land suitable for agriculture in the world.

Essentially you force the price of food up the moment you divert food stocks to fuel.

Even worse, if you turned all the *farmable* land over to biofuel (and forgot about letting anyone eat for the sake of argument) you would only have enough feedstock to provide fuel for a tiny proportion of the worlds current requirements.

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i think ive come this far i may as well rent 10 more years then naff off to portugal or somewhere else.

im so sick of this country with either no jobs or no housing. and no peace.

id rather rent or buy a small villa in portugal or canada or anywhere else where theres no blood sucking nimbys.

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The simple answer is yes on all fronts long term we are fuk**** in the UK but then that's why I dont live there regularly. What will help you is wealth. So use this time now to create it and then when you need to you will have the wealth to facilitate that move to Canada or elsewhere if need be. If you have no wealth then your like the rest of the sheeple when the shit hits the fan to be honest. I.E limited opportunitys!

Did'nt they all scoff when Noah built his ark? Your ark is your wealth.

Mark.

PS

I went to Canada at xmas for 3 weeks for snowboarding and also to check out the market there. I looked at a ranch

440 acres

Woodland and meadow

River runs through it

5 acre Trout lake

8 bedrooms

4 bathrooms

Outbuildings

$985000

or at 2.37

415 grand :)

I actually had to sit down in the EA's office when I realised how far my wealth goes in Canada! He started showing me farms and estates all of which I can afford and most of which are ongoing businesses too!

Property CA

Land

Farms and Land

AND

The people are actually NICE and the country side is the most magnificent I have ever seen. Yes the winters are and can be harsh but if you have a North face jacket your good to go :)

AND

A store clerk I spoke to was earning 1000 quid a month :)

Here is an example

35 acres and all solared up for when energy is scarce

35 acres property

168 grand ROFL LOL

Edited by Soul Reaver

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NZ housing is ridiculously overpriced, probably more so than the UK. Here are some stats if you want the evidence:

Median NZ annual income: $24,400 (March 2006 data)

Median NZ house price: $350,000 (June 2007 data)

Official cash interest rates are 8% and 2-year fixed mortage rates are a staggering 9.25%. I'll think you'll find that affordability is much worse than in the UK.

Maybe then rates can go higher still in the UK,and prices won't fall...if NZ anything tio go by

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I'm not joking! NZ housing is ridiculously overpriced, probably more so than the UK. Here are some stats if you want the evidence:

Median NZ annual income: $24,400 (March 2006 data)

Median NZ house price: $350,000 (June 2007 data)

Official cash interest rates are 8% and 2-year fixed mortage rates are a staggering 9.25%. :o I'll think you'll find that affordability is much worse than in the UK.

Home loans less affordable in May

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4102165a13.html' rel="external nofollow">
NZPA | Wednesday, 20 June 2007
A home loan affordability index shows
the cost of a mortgage rose in May to 79.3 per cent of the average weekly take-home pay
.

But hey, I'm not going to NZ to make money in buy-to-let!

Maybe you should be going there to make money in buy to let. You can offset your rental loss against other income and there is no CGT. So if you think there are tax incentives for BTL here (in my view there aren't particularly) you should try it over there

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this scenario is too catastrofic even for a bear like me.

But, if this is the case, I will move back to the valley where I was born in Italy. All the electricity comes from dams there, the agriculture is still going, they make excellent wine and I own my own house outright with my piece of land and wood.

I plan to retire there anyways, so if the **** hits the proverbial fan, that's where I'm going to go. There, next to that little church...

dazio.JPG

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cause sure as sh*t you wont be driving your shiny new car to work in 5 years time

I think, if you researched, you would be suprised by how far alternative fuels have come along. Several countries already have a roadmap in place for an oil free existance.

There there, it will be OK. Hugs.

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Guest Winnie
You could be right here. I'd suggest a first-world country with abundant natural resources (including arable land) and low population density. Canada and Australia spring to mind.

[i'm emigrating to New Zealand, but this might not be the most rational decision as house prices are ridiculously high, the economy isn't in fantastic shape and it's rather earthquake-prone. Mind you, they do great coffee and eggs benedict!]

Dr Bob. Cool choice NZ over Australia, (both great for doctors of course) as in a few years the Ossies are going to have to stop their "fush and chups" jokes about kiwis as they are BEGGING them for fresh water........ NZ is the choice for green long term thinkers. Can I come too? I love coffee and eggs benedict, sitting by the sea on the Bay of Islands, watching the UK implode from afar, still in touch via HPC.co.uk!!

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this scenario is too catastrofic even for a bear like me.

But, if this is the case, I will move back to the valley where I was born in Italy. All the electricity comes from dams there, the agriculture is still going, they make excellent wine and I own my own house outright with my piece of land and wood.

I plan to retire there anyways, so if the **** hits the proverbial fan, that's where I'm going to go. There, next to that little church...

dazio.JPG

Sounds a good plan. It's easy to grow and hunt all your own food in the more rural parts of Italy, and the mild winters would allow you to live reasonably comfortably without heating and electricity if you had to.

However, the more densely populated areas are likely to suffer from severe water shortages as global warming increases.

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Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable
Your taking the pi$$ arent you?!?! NZ compared to the UK has property prices which are far more sensible. OK, if you have no savings, and are expecting your salary over there to pay the mortgage, you may struggle, but compared to the uk prices are fantastic value for money!!!

But massively overpriced for that economy.

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Dr Bob. Cool choice NZ over Australia, (both great for doctors of course) as in a few years the Ossies are going to have to stop their "fush and chups" jokes about kiwis as they are BEGGING them for fresh water........ NZ is the choice for green long term thinkers. Can I come too? I love coffee and eggs benedict, sitting by the sea on the Bay of Islands, watching the UK implode from afar, still in touch via HPC.co.uk!!

I'm off at Christmas for a month - looking at making a large land purchase in 2010(ish). Property is very expensive if you are on an NZ wage but not if you have a nice wad of cash and you are taking it over there. I love egg benedict and I love the idea of living in a country that has enough resources to feed its population.

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I'm off to the US - probably Florida - in a few years time. In my line of work (planning, urban design, development etc) I'll be able to get a pretty good job there, and the property etc will still be on the slide meaning that I can take my pick of good rentals while I save up. And my Dad lives there, and it would be cool to spend some time with him as he left when I was a wee nipper.

Plus, I like the weather, even the rough stuff. Makes life interesting, and you can't beat the life style of living on the coast.

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