Lots Of Very Selfish People Around

[Cityfool]

If you don't buy, how can you be a buyer of any kind, first time or otherwise?

This is missing section is becoming something of an obsession, isn't it, Marina?  But then who am I to talk?  The objection to the term FTB to people who haven't bought anything is becoming my soap box!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What is it with you and the FTB thing. It is just a term used for people who are looking to enter the market and so are in the process of buying for the first time. If it will make you feel happy then just use the term prospective first time buyer or prospective market entrant. Since everyone knows what it means I fail to see there is any harm in the term.

[wriggly]

Brainwashed

Many homeowners seem to be of the impression that the situation over the last several years of high and rising prices is normal and justifiable. They have been constantly told this by the 'experts'.

Lower prices will benefit FTBs as well as all people looking to take the next step up the ladder. I look forward to the day when people realise that high prices are good only for the tiny minority who tend to make a disproportionately loud noise.

[Bluelady]

But they won't benefit all people looking to make the next step on the ladder; lower house prices won't benefit downsizers at all. Quite the reverse, in fact.

[wriggly]

But they won't benefit all people looking to make the next step on the ladder; lower house prices won't benefit downsizers at all.  Quite the reverse, in fact.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, but. If we roughly group the population in terms of what they are looking to do in the next 7 years (taking average time between house moves of seven years):

Owner occupiers staying put: 0%

Owner occupiers looking to move up or to another area (lower prices = lower fees: 60%

Owner occupiers retiring and downsizing: 5%

Non-owners looking to buy: 15%

Non-owners given up trying to buy: 10%

Buy to letters selling up: 2%

Buy to letters buying more: 2%

Buy to letters sticking with what they've got: 1%

Totting this up, we get:

Happy with prices going up: 5+2+1=8%

Not bothered either way: 0+10=10%

Happy with prices going down: 60+15+2=77%

[Bluelady]

How long did it take you to make up those figures? Just because the average lapse between house moves is 7 years it doesn't follow that no owner occupier will remain in the same place for longer than this.

You also fail to take into account the age of the baby boom generation which means a lot of people downsizing over the next few years, nor do you factor in houses on the market because of death.

[non-FTBer]

Bluelady,

What happens when all the Baby Boomers want to downsize....

A surplus of family properties on the market.... with a much lower number of families wanting to take their place.

From what I've seen of the demographics of this country, we seem to have a very large bulge in the later age ranges, with fewer young people knocking around... due largely to the baby boomers.

Unfortunately for them, not all of them will be able to sell at current levels, as there is simply not enough money to prop the market up at current levels if they all want to downsize.

I am a 'potential' FTB, who refuses to buy at current prices.

I earn very good money for the area I live in, and could easily buy (with a 20% deposit, and not using all my available savings ).

But I choose not to buy, as it would offer me no financial stability at current prices.

If I wait until prices for the house I want are roughly 3x my income + large deposit, then I know that if I lose my job then I will still be able to meet my financial commitments, and will have no worries.

Why should I risk the financial future of myself and my family to assist a load of people at the top of the market who want to downsize and retire.

I would normally have no interest in the housing market and its movements. I earn enough that I plan to buy a suitable house that I could live in (might not, but could) for the rest of my days. No trading up, no property ladder. Couldn't care about the paper value of said house once I've bought it.

Although Wriggly's figures seem to have been plucked out of the air, they're probably fairly roughly representative of the truth, and I would agree with him that significant price falls benefit the very large majority of UK homeowners.

I will concede that he did not factor in the fact that many people will not like price falls as they have been MEWing like crazy to buy that Car/Speedboat/Extention etc....

[wriggly]

How long did it take you to make up those figures?  Just because the average lapse between house moves is 7 years it doesn't follow that no owner occupier will remain in the same place for longer than this. 

You also fail to take into account the age of the baby boom generation which means a lot of people downsizing over the next few years, nor do you factor in houses on the market because of death.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Bluelady - I notice we joined on the same day.

I have tried to be fair and honest with the numbers. I may have underestmiated the baby boomer/death factor. I still feel the vast majority will be better off with lower prices.

Remember downsizers still need to buy a small house or flat, and these are not exactly cheap at the moment. Also, with lower prices will come lower fees for the downsizers too.

Finally, I notice my numbers added to 95%. Maybe I should add:

Homeowners who are also estate agents or commissioned mortgage advisors: 5%

They should be added to the ... wait for it ... wanting prices lower camp. Yes at the moment there is market stagnation. They will be out of a job if prices do not fall so that FTBs can buy.

[foundation]

The objection to the term FTB to people who haven't bought anything is becoming my soap box!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So until a house sells, the person selling it is a potential vendor?

A single lesbian is a potential lesbian?

Someone planning to blow up an aeroplane is a potential terrorist?

Between now and your next post you're potentially illogical?

[jpjh]

So until a house sells, the person selling it is a potential vendor?

A single lesbian is a potential lesbian?

Someone planning to blow up an aeroplane is a potential terrorist?

Between now and your next post you're potentially illogical?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I suppose the FTB's that are sitting on there hands are

Potential Unpotential Buyers!!!!!!

[Bluelady]

So until a house sells, the person selling it is a potential vendor? Yes

A single lesbian is a potential lesbian? No

Someone planning to blow up an aeroplane is a potential terrorist? Yes

Between now and your next post you're potentially illogical? Absolutely, in the company of the rest of the human race.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[zzg113]

I have limited sympathy for someone who is 36 years old and is bleating on about not being able to afford their first home. What have you been doing over the last 18 years that you still don't have a deposit?

Ignorant Steve really is unhelpful.

I think that people should be able to buy second homes, and third homes, and as many as they like.

Non-FTBer, it is BECAUSE poeple have been able to buy as many properties as they like that you are in the mess that you are (ie house prices too high)!!!! You are SUPPORTING the situation which is negatively affecting you!!!!!!!!! Crazy!

Its a free market

The housing market is about as un-free as it is possible to get.

have now decide in not to rush in purchasing anything, Instead I will keep renting and save for that deposit, if the prices don't come down lets say within next 5 years. Then I shall be packing my bags and Emigrate with that lump-sum of cash which I saved

Good for you Sonny and I wholeheartedly support your decision. I know what a difficult decision this has been for you. Here's a couple of links to get you started:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/

http://www.immigration.govt.nz/migrant/

http://www.immi.gov.au/migrate/index.htm

I am 36 years old, do I still have time to start a new life elsewhere ?

Yes, plenty. If you were of retirement age it would be more difficult, but you're a ways off that yet!

There's more to life than holidays, drinking, sex and having a good time.

Is there????????

why not fix the problem you have in the UK ??

SUARA, one person cannot change an entire society on his own, and I think Sonny is doing the right thing, voting with his feet.

If you are skilled, go to the areas in the UK where the pay is better

SUARA, the areas in the UK where the pay is better are where house prices are highest!!!!!!! What kind of advice is that????

I once met a mini cab driver who mentioned to me that he went to live in spain, but came back after a year simply because he didn't like their drinking water

That's ridiculous.

I earn enough that I plan to buy a suitable house that I could live in (might not, but could) for the rest of my days. No trading up, no property ladder

Good for you Non-FTBer. People in this country seem to be obssessed with climbing the (non-existent) property ladder. Why? What's the point?

[Sonny]

Ignorant Steve really is unhelpful.

Non-FTBer, it is BECAUSE poeple have been able to buy as many properties as they like that you are in the mess that you are (ie house prices too high)!!!! You are SUPPORTING the situation which is negatively affecting you!!!!!!!!! Crazy!

The housing market is about as un-free as it is possible to get.

Good for you Sonny and I wholeheartedly support your decision. I know what a difficult decision this has been for you. Here's a couple of links to get you started:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/

http://www.immigration.govt.nz/migrant/

http://www.immi.gov.au/migrate/index.htm

Yes, plenty. If you were of retirement age it would be more difficult, but you're a ways off that yet!

Is there????????      

SUARA, one person cannot change an entire society on his own, and I think Sonny is doing the right thing, voting with his feet.

SUARA, the areas in the UK where the pay is better are where house prices are highest!!!!!!! What kind of advice is that????

That's ridiculous.

Good for you Non-FTBer. People in this country seem to be obssessed with climbing the (non-existent) property ladder. Why? What's the point?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi ZZ.

Thanks for your feed-back and the web-links.

Regards

Sonny

[patiodoors]

Good for you Non-FTBer. People in this country seem to be obssessed with climbing the (non-existent) property ladder. Why? What's the point?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No point, other than self improvement, a nice shed for the kids, a garden, somewhere to park your car, couple of shrubs at the front door, new window's, a Moben kitchen, 3 bedrooms, en-suite, loft space for your train set, double glazing, Vaillent boiler, wooden floors, crazy paving, block drive, garage full of tools and stuff, utility room, built in fridge, dish washer, granite worktops, nice carpets, your own front door, tree house, matching carpets and curtains, NO RENT, and last but not least, a nice set of Patio doors.

[zzg113]

I'm sure you'll be glad to know that your time on this earth was not in vain: you managed to acquire matching carpets and curtains.

I'm sure hundreds of years from now people will utter your name in hushed tones, alongside such greats as Mandela, Ghandi, De Gaulle, Churchill, and the other great men of history.

Truly, your life will not have been in vain.

What a legacy you will leave mankind after your passing: matching carpets and curtains.

[patiodoors]

I'm sure you'll be glad to know that your time on this earth was not in vain: you managed to acquire matching carpets and curtains.

I'm sure hundreds of years from now people will utter your name in hushed tones, alongside such greats as Mandela, Ghandi, De Gaulle, Churchill, and the other great men of history.

Truly, your life will not have been in vain.

           

What a legacy you will leave mankind after your passing: matching carpets and curtains.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Aye, I can always tell the grandkids about the time when people lived in rented places, they'll not believe me though, they'll think i'm a mad old sod, oh, thats right I am, I bought a house.

[Sold up and Renting Abroad]

SUARA, one person cannot change an entire society on his own, and I think Sonny is doing the right thing, voting with his feet.

SUARA, the areas in the UK where the pay is better are where house prices are highest!!!!!!! What kind of advice is that????

That's ridiculous.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not suggesting he tries to change an entire society, where did I say that ?? Why risk moving abroad for such small reasons - better to fix the problem at home me thinks, if you can (and I'd have thought he could).

And re. the mini-cab driver, it was a true story I kid you not. He also mentioned that Spain was the country where he learnt for the first time ever never to smack his children, as it was the one time he did it there in public and was immediately surrounded by a mob of very angry Spanish Mothers who told him what they thought of him !!!

Nicest cab driver I'd ever met, btw.

[Guest keano]

Well MR Ignorant Steve.

Most of my adult life I was in the Bristish Military and abroad most of the time.  You ignorant pr*ck !!

There are reason why people cannot purchase in their early adult lives (low wages, university, working aboad, military service etc etc)..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sonny....don't waste your time replying to Mr ignor-anus. What he really needs is a lot of love and a great big cuddle....he's just a big soppy old fool at heart and just a bit misguided. Just don't legitimise his rants by responding to them. Then, he'll just go away and take his medication.

[Sonny]

There's more to life than holidays, drinking, sex and having a good time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah right Steve !! I can understand Holidays and drinking can cost money, but did you realised sex is available for FREE ? you dont have to pay for it !!! Just use your charm !! or are you that Ugly that you have no choice but to pay for it !!!

[Crazy88s]

Yeah right Steve !! I can understand Holidays and drinking can cost money, but did you realised sex is available for FREE ? you dont have to pay for it !!!  Just use your charm !! or are you that Ugly that you have no choice but to pay for it !!!

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You do have to pay for sex one way or another. A friend of mine firmly believes that it is cheaper to pay for sex than to maintain a wife. (Thinking how much mine costs me sometimes and working out what that means in £/shag then I think he may have a point)

[walker127]

Good for you Non-FTBer. People in this country seem to be obssessed with climbing the (non-existent) property ladder. Why? What's the point?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am 42, used to own a nice 5 bedroom house until the misses got bored, found someone else and buggered off with the lot in 1999. Totally dissillusioned with the UK I have worked abroad since but will be returning to the UK to work for 7 or 8 months of the year. I have given up with the idea of owning a UK property, I have no time for the "you have to buy a house or you are not normal" brigade. All my friends and family are house owners (bought before the boom) and are all smug and content........but doing what? They work 9 to 5 in a dead end job, hobbies include 'gardening' and 'DIY', they own a nice car (Mondeao or such), have two weeks in Benidorm each year and they are 'normal'. An exicting night out is a meal and a couple of pints at the local.

Not for me, there are alternatives. I don't think I will ever buy a house in the UK even if property prices drop by 50 or 60%, I just don't want to re-join the rat race. I am currently climbing the 'boating' ladder with a small yacht out in Malaysia and looking to move up to something bigger in 5 years time. When I was in my 20's I just went with advice from the herd.......get married, buy a house, have 2.2 kids, retire then die. There is so much more to this world than that but it took me until I was 37 having been taken to the cleaners by my ex-wife to realise it.

This is my dream which will become a reality if I keep working, and saving at my current rate.

http://leemarine.com/boatdetail.php?type=Sail&boatcode=684

[Crazy88s]

Walker127,

Dont blame you, I spent 2 months in Malaysia (Johor Bahru) The ex-pats were having a fantastic time. Hyatt Regency was $40 a night.

Good luck.

[George]

Good luck if you want to leave England sunny, your still young; personally seems like a sinking ship to me this place. I like the other guys post the dont want to be normal lol.

[walker127]

I have limited sympathy for someone who is 36 years old and is bleating on about not being able to afford their first home. What have you been doing over the last 18 years that you still don't have a deposit?

There's more to life than holidays, drinking, sex and having a good time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Of course there is.......you can borrow 5x your salary and buy an 80 year old two bedroom terraced house with a back yard. Then you can put wall paper up, fit nice curtains and carpets.

Holidays?? who needs them? Have to work to pay off the mortgage and anyway, why would you want to live anywhere other than your two up two down?

Having a good time??.....better off having a bad time and being miserable, epecially when the value of your house falls below the mortgage you took out on it. Anyway, wallpapering is having a good time.......isn't it?

Sex?? who would want to do that when there is wallpaper to put up and window frames to paint?

Drinking?? Beer? what are people thinking of??? who would want to drink beer and celebrate anything.......why cant people just drink tea and get on with the wallpapering?

There is more to life than borrowing a huge amount of money, buying an overpriced property and then spending the next 25 years working to pay if off........and wallpapering is boring.

[Sonny]

I am 42, used to own a nice 5 bedroom house until the misses got bored,  found someone else and buggered off with the lot in 1999.  Totally dissillusioned with the UK I have worked abroad since but will be returning to the UK to work for 7 or 8 months of the year.  I have given up with the idea of owning a UK property, I have no time for the "you have to buy a house or you are not normal" brigade.  All my friends and family are house owners (bought before the boom) and are all smug and content........but doing what?  They work 9 to 5 in a dead end job,  hobbies include 'gardening' and 'DIY', they own a nice car (Mondeao or such), have two weeks in Benidorm each year and they are 'normal'.  An exicting night out is a meal and a couple of pints at the local.

Not for me, there are alternatives.  I don't think I will ever buy a house in the UK even if  property prices drop by 50 or 60%, I just don't want to re-join the rat race.  I am currently climbing the 'boating' ladder with a small yacht out in Malaysia and looking to move up to something  bigger in 5 years time.  When I was in my 20's I just went with advice from the herd.......get married, buy a house, have 2.2 kids, retire then die.  There is so much more to this world than that but it took me until I was 37 having been taken to the cleaners by my ex-wife to realise it. 

This is my dream which will become a reality if I keep working, and saving at my current rate.

http://leemarine.com/boatdetail.php?type=Sail&boatcode=684

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hello..

I totally agree with you 100 percent, your dream will come true and I wish you all best. After reading the above, this has made me more determine to follow my dream and purchasing a cr*ppy flat in the UK is not one them. In meanwhile just need to carry on with my I.T professional certification and build up a nice hefty lump-sum of cash (which was going to be used as a deposit - but not anymore), then leave this crappy country for a better quality of life. I hope this dream will come true before I reach my 40th birthday..