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People On Here Seem To Have The Memory Of Goldfish

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i have been reading a few posts now and am at a loss. all of you bleating on about the tax advantages of the btl sector.

now for those who have any memery i am a confirmed bear and have been on and off this site for some time.

but what is all this talk of the tax advantages and ftb being allowed the same advantages etc. for those with goldfish merories it was called MIRAS and it was got rid of.

secondly if as an owner occupier you sell ,you do not pay capital gains tax, however if you are a btler then you do.

if it annoys you so much that they can off set the rent against the interest payments, then buy your property as a btl and live in it yourself, but be prepared to pay cg tax at the end.

i understand that the guardian are unaware of any such simple tax rules, but i would have thought that more people on here might be above this old fashioned leftie envy claptrap.

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You're one to talk about other people's memeorys ....memerys ...merories aren't you?

spelling is an art form now, i thought everyone knew.

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i have been reading a few posts now and am at a loss. all of you bleating on about the tax advantages of the btl sector.

now for those who have any memery i am a confirmed bear and have been on and off this site for some time.

but what is all this talk of the tax advantages and ftb being allowed the same advantages etc. for those with goldfish merories it was called MIRAS and it was got rid of.

secondly if as an owner occupier you sell ,you do not pay capital gains tax, however if you are a btler then you do.

if it annoys you so much that they can off set the rent against the interest payments, then buy your property as a btl and live in it yourself, but be prepared to pay cg tax at the end.

i understand that the guardian are unaware of any such simple tax rules, but i would have thought that more people on here might be above this old fashioned leftie envy claptrap.

indeed, they got rid of the tax break for home owners but not investors

not only that but the extra break for private investors is that the rules are different for people buying houses compared with them buying other more traditional investments

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i understand that the guardian are unaware of any such simple tax rules, but i would have thought that more people on here might be above this old fashioned leftie envy claptrap.

If I want the factory next door to me to stop polluting it's not because I am envious of their profits

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indeed, they got rid of the tax break for home owners but not investors

can you explain exactly what tax break they are getting.

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i have been reading a few posts now and am at a loss. all of you bleating on about the tax advantages of the btl sector.

now for those who have any memery i am a confirmed bear and have been on and off this site for some time.

but what is all this talk of the tax advantages and ftb being allowed the same advantages etc. for those with goldfish merories it was called MIRAS and it was got rid of.

secondly if as an owner occupier you sell ,you do not pay capital gains tax, however if you are a btler then you do.

if it annoys you so much that they can off set the rent against the interest payments, then buy your property as a btl and live in it yourself, but be prepared to pay cg tax at the end.

i understand that the guardian are unaware of any such simple tax rules, but i would have thought that more people on here might be above this old fashioned leftie envy claptrap.

What's the score on stamp duty if the BTL has registered as a business?

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Businesses are treated differently from individuals for tax purposes. We generally don't notice this: a business can afford to borrow more for machine tools than you or I could, but we probably don't want to buy machine tools so it doesn't matter if cheaper money drives the price up.

When business enters the housing market, the two types of people are in direct competition. It's hardly surprising that the side with access to creative finance and advantageous tax rules can outbid everyone else, and it's hardly surprising that ordinary people would be peeved by that.

As for the CGT aspect, a BTLer has two possibilities to avoid or minimise this:

- live in each property for long enough to establish main residency (six months as far as I know). Sell it, move, rinse and repeat.

- hold the properties within a company: CGT taper relief will reduce the taxable gain to 25% of the actual gain. Astonishingly, this reduction happens after 2 years; for individuals the reduction stops at 60% after ten years! [overview]

Since we're all supposed to be mini-businesses nowadays, investing in our own training and developing portfolio careers etc. then surely it's time to harmonise the tax system so individuals get the same treatment as companies.

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can you explain exactly what tax break they are getting.

they are allowed to offset income against interest payments - fine if they are a business but the majority are not - try doing that with money borrowed to buy shares (if you can manage to borrow for that purpose) and see what the IR (Inland Revenue) says about it

Edited by the end is nigh

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i have been reading a few posts now and am at a loss. all of you bleating on about the tax advantages of the btl sector.

now for those who have any memery i am a confirmed bear and have been on and off this site for some time.

but what is all this talk of the tax advantages and ftb being allowed the same advantages etc. for those with goldfish merories it was called MIRAS and it was got rid of.

secondly if as an owner occupier you sell ,you do not pay capital gains tax, however if you are a btler then you do.

if it annoys you so much that they can off set the rent against the interest payments, then buy your property as a btl and live in it yourself, but be prepared to pay cg tax at the end.

i understand that the guardian are unaware of any such simple tax rules, but i would have thought that more people on here might be above this old fashioned leftie envy claptrap.

No you got it wrong. BTLers are perfectly allowed to own a home and sell it free of CGT so there's your fairness for a start. As for the rest, well a home becomes primary if you live in it (doing so under a higher rate BTL mortgage is a little odd). In addition BTL's get letting relief of 40k per beneficial owner plus any taper relief applicable if its been inherited etc...

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i have been reading a few posts now and am at a loss. all of you bleating on about the tax advantages of the btl sector.

now for those who have any memery i am a confirmed bear and have been on and off this site for some time.

but what is all this talk of the tax advantages and ftb being allowed the same advantages etc. for those with goldfish merories it was called MIRAS and it was got rid of.

secondly if as an owner occupier you sell ,you do not pay capital gains tax, however if you are a btler then you do.

if it annoys you so much that they can off set the rent against the interest payments, then buy your property as a btl and live in it yourself, but be prepared to pay cg tax at the end.

i understand that the guardian are unaware of any such simple tax rules, but i would have thought that more people on here might be above this old fashioned leftie envy claptrap.

On reflection, I think this post misses the point. There are two issues for me.

(1) Is it beneficial for owner occupiers to have an advantage over BTLs. The answer has to be yes because an owner occupier is buying a place to live and the BTL is buying an investment.

(2) Does the BTL have an advantage over the owner occupier. The answer is clearly yes because they have the financial leverage to pay over the odds for property. The fact that they may lose their shirts in the long term does not help the owner occupier in the short term. The thing that hurts everyone the most is when property is unused. I have said this before but I think that owners of second homes should automatically be taxed on the assumption that their second property is rented out. That would kill the worst aspects of property speculation overnight.

Edited by dog

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You're one to talk about other people's memeorys ....memerys ...merories aren't you?

'let me get my hands on your memmory glands'........

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CGT taper relief will reduce the taxable gain to 25% of the actual gain. Astonishingly, this reduction happens after 2 years; for individuals the reduction stops at 60% after ten years!

Yes but once you dispose of a property owned by a company, you might only have paid 25% CGT but the money is still in the company. For you to get at that money you either have to pay it to yourself as a salary - PAYE - or as a dividend.

Just because the company owns it doesn't mean you can just sell it, pay 25% CGT and stick the money in your pocket.

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Yes but once you dispose of a property owned by a company, you might only have paid 25% CGT but the money is still in the company. For you to get at that money you either have to pay it to yourself as a salary - PAYE - or as a dividend.

Just because the company owns it doesn't mean you can just sell it, pay 25% CGT and stick the money in your pocket.

If you're doing BTL as a pension then you'll want to leave your nest egg in the company and draw what you need each year according to your needs and tax status--drawing it out in one go would certainly be unwise.

I don't know what happens in such a case if a BTL company millionaire retires abroad, but I suspect he will no longer be filling in UK tax forms...

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What about corporation tax?

Your limited company has to pay tax on profits.

Gordon recently lower corporation tax on big mega business passing the short fall onto small business via higher a corporation tax banding.

If you pay out the money as PAYE you have to pay income tax and national insurance. If you take it as a dividend you have to pay tax on that as well.

If BTL were run along proper business lines then most people wouldn't bother doing it- far too much paperwork and statutory requirements involved- all the tax paperwork, accounting requirements, returns to companies house and statutory insurances etc.

The government will get your "profit" one way or another.

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I agree up to a point with the iniitial poster. However housing and shelter is a basic essential for life and therefore it is perfectly acceptable to have a different tax regime in place compared to other businesses. Going after BTLs would be a very popular source of tax income (let's face it most buy to letters are likely to be Tories) so I wouldn't rule out Gordon Brown looking at this to pay for his new council houses!

I think what annoys me most is the BTL VIs who argue that no first time buyer has been prevented from buying a property because of buy to let. Its such a pile of doodoo!

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i have been reading a few posts now and am at a loss. all of you bleating on about the tax advantages of the btl sector.

now for those who have any memery i am a confirmed bear and have been on and off this site for some time.

but what is all this talk of the tax advantages and ftb being allowed the same advantages etc. for those with goldfish merories it was called MIRAS and it was got rid of.

secondly if as an owner occupier you sell ,you do not pay capital gains tax, however if you are a btler then you do.

if it annoys you so much that they can off set the rent against the interest payments, then buy your property as a btl and live in it yourself, but be prepared to pay cg tax at the end.

i understand that the guardian are unaware of any such simple tax rules, but i would have thought that more people on here might be above this old fashioned leftie envy claptrap.

Well made point which im sure a lot of us know but are too a**ed to bother with explaining.

There is simply too many people who want all parts of their lives controlled by government to microcosm levels, this is far left thinking. But remember if you go too far to the left you meet the too far to the right brigade, which nulab have done already. Soon they will be telling us how we should be happy :lol::lol: hang on they have set up a dept. to do just that :(

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There is nothing to stop someone setting up a LTD company, buying a house through it and then renting it yourself from your own company, you just have to pay a fair rent to your company.

Very, very unlikely it will work out better for you though.

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There is nothing to stop someone setting up a LTD company, buying a house through it and then renting it yourself from your own company, you just have to pay a fair rent to your company.

Very, very unlikely it will work out better for you though.

Why not set it up as a charity?

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BTL's can keep the profit, no trouble with that so long as they get to keep the losses as i'm sure they will.

Returns on renting property are now so low i think they are more like charities already but it would give me a warm feeling everytime something needed doing around the house and all i need to do is call the landlord.

it's no fun fixing a blocked drain :)

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