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iluminati

Are Immigrants Responsible ?

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I would like to start this thread with a question Are immigrants responsible for a housing shortage ?

We live on a small island. House prices are off the chart and continue to climb, although most agree a pretty steep fall is due soon. Is the real problem that immigrants such as myself and the asylum seekers responsible for taking homes off you. Or Is the fact that more people are buying homes than ever before, low interest rates and a government led lack of house building forced prices well out of reach.

As a legal immigrant, who has a mortgage and face the same troubles as others on here, is it fair to point a finger and say its all our fault, after all many UK residents choose to live in Spain, and the Spanish are also accusing the English for their housing problems.

Is it not the case that in Spain too many houses have been built and in the UK too little houses are being built, it has nothing to do really with the influx or outflux of the population as a whole.

The UK has always had immigration such as Irish, Afro Caribbean, Indian, Pakistani, Chinese (Hong Kong) and now Eastern Europeans with the odd American here and there too.

The UK has always had emmigration to America, Canada, Austrailia, New Zealand and Spain, France etc.

Better planning is needed not a blame the last one in.

I am interested in your thoughts on this subject.

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BTL has been instrumental in Nulab's immigration policy. Without it they'd never been able to hide the numbers that were coming in.

With BTL crowing out FTB's then yes any housing shortage and pricing is directly linked to immigration.

Edit

Pumping up the money supply and dropping lending criteria helps because it encourages further speculation, and further growth in BTL (to house even more immigrants (legal or otherwise) and migrant workers too).

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BTL has been instrumental in Nulab's immigration policy. Without it they'd never been able to hide the numbers that were coming in.

With BTL crowing out FTB's then yes any housing shortage and pricing is directly linked to immigration.

Isnt by what you are saying that BTLers are responsible for a housing shortage regardless of the occupants. If affordability continue to decline, wont these BTL house be filled with those who cannot afford to get on the property ladder. It is either that or live with parents wouldnt you agree.

To your edited piece. If you leave your door open, people will enter.

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yes, I am responisble :P but honestly - stupid laws are responsible. corrupt UK political caste + sheeple who vote them

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Guest AuntJess
yes, I am responisble :P but honestly - stupid laws are responsible. corrupt UK political caste + sheeple who vote them

I agree. It is a bit like blaming cakes for making a person fat, when the problem is the willpower of the eater. :rolleyes:

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yes, I am responisble :P but honestly - stupid laws are responsible. corrupt UK political caste + sheeple who vote them

But if they (the Government) want to build more social housing, why dont they change some of the antique planning laws and do so. They didnt seem to have such reservations in the 60's and 70s.

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I agree. It is a bit like blaming cakes for making a person fat, when the problem is the willpower of the eater. :rolleyes:

Very well put. you took the words (or cake) right out of my mouth. :lol:

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Isnt by what you are saying that BTLers are responsible for a housing shortage regardless of the occupants.

A bit of a chicken an egg argument this one, BTL need encouragement that there will be more bodies to fill their properties. Without large immigration this country woud actually have a declining population, cost of living and insane pricing are encouraging / forcing 10,000's to look abroad.

If affordability continue to decline, wont these BTL house be filled with those who cannot afford to get on the property ladder. It is either that or live with parents wouldnt you agree.

See above, I think the situation would have already corrected, a lot of young FTB's qould sit it out at home. A lot of FTB's that have boght have been panicked into doing so, largely in the face of high population growth which they perceive will lock them out of ownership.

To your edited piece. If you leave your door open, people will enter.

Yes, that is the policy that has been put in place. This was never put before the public or opnely voted upon and the govt have consistently lied about the nmbers from the start

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But if they (the Government) want to build more social housing, why dont they change some of the antique planning laws and do so. They didnt seem to have such reservations in the 60's and 70s.

that's why I am saying that HPI was engineered to line pockets of the ruling caste. liquidation of social housing, cheap credit + unrestricted immigration is the recipe. these ppl aren't stupid like most, they knew it up front!

immigration as such is good for the receiving country, but the country must provide the infrastructure (housing, hospitals, schools, roads etc) hardworking, motivated immigrants will pay it back in no time

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that's why I am saying that HPI was engineered to line pockets of the ruling caste. liquidation of social housing, cheap credit + unrestricted immigration is the recipe. these ppl aren't stupid like most, they knew it up front!

immigration as such is good for the receiving country, but the country must provide the infrastructure (housing, hospitals, schools, roads etc) hardworking, motivated immigrants will pay it back in no time

Over 10% of the prison population are foreign nationals and we are told we don't have the finances to lock up our own scumbags now.

It is isn't working.

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Over 10% of the prison population are foreign nationals and we are told we don't have the finances to lock up our own scumbags now.

It is isn't working.

you can adapt a few old ships as prison hulks. or rent a jail in Russia, all services included. cheap as chips!

I believe that abt 10% of UK population are foreigners anyway, so the proportion is retained. In fact - I think in london abt 50% are foreigners

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you can adapt a few old ships as prison hulks. or rent a jail in Russia, all services included. cheap as chips!

It's not happening.

Next.

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But if they (the Government) want to build more social housing, why dont they change some of the antique planning laws and do so. They didnt seem to have such reservations in the 60's and 70s.

Because the rich, greedy scum who have a monopoly on property and run the country don't want their view spoilt.

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Guest casaloco

In a word.... no. More people are LEAVING than arriving.

Plus most of the eastern europeans aren't renting a house each, they are sleep 3 to a bed in sheds in order to maximise their earnings.

Put simply, they can't afford to rent a house on their wages!

Immigration is a smokecrean to cover up the fact that we have plenty of houses, they are all stood empty in the hands of BTL scumbags who are destroying the economy.

Mr BTL: Get out of our way so we can be productive.

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It's not happening.

Next.

perhaps shortage is not so acute yet, with alll these hi-tech gadgets like tags etc. in fact I heard it from a work colleague that HM gvt plans or already rented a jail in Russia for asylum seekers. the advantage is that these ppl won't abscond and mix with locals. in pred White country they would stick out like hell! and Russian skinheads can be really nasty!

related link:

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/politics/st...,977842,00.html

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I would like to start this thread with a question Are immigrants responsible for a housing shortage ?

No

Is the real problem that immigrants such as myself and the asylum seekers responsible for taking homes off you. Or Is the fact that more people are buying homes than ever before, low interest rates and a government led lack of house building forced prices well out of reach.

How are you taking homes off others? The UK plc is run by corrupted officials who fiddle inflation figures to keep the rates low in order to fuel the consumer spending. They couldn't cut the rates quick enough when HPI was running @ 25% pa to save the day not the future. The, bankrupt, UK is responsible for a third of all debt in Western Europe and that is a good enough reason as to why Brown's miracle economy should take the blame not immigrants.

Mr "unelected" soon PM has destroyed many people's pension and most have chosen to speculate on property instead, as BTL. The problem is most can't even see the fact that miracle Brown destroyed their pension and their decision of BTL will destroy whatever they have got left of it.

The UK has always had immigration such as Irish, Afro Caribbean, Indian, Pakistani, Chinese (Hong Kong) and now Eastern Europeans with the odd American here and there too.

Not all immigrant are home owners, if you dig it you'll find one of my threads where Poles fight over public toilets as it only cost 20p a night! Most new comers feel lucky if they manage to get a job that pays the minimum wage so I can't somehow see them as the reason of today's mess and most will go back home when the sh&t hits the fan.

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perhaps shortage is not so acute yet, with alll these hi-tech gadgets like tags etc. in fact I heard it from a work colleague that HM gvt plans or already rented a jail in Russia for asylum seekers. the advantage is that these ppl won't abscond and mix with locals. in pred White country they would stick out like hell! and Russian skinheads can be really nasty!

related link:

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/politics/st...,977842,00.html

Seems like that plan (if it ever was) has sunk without trace since 2003.

Next.

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At this stage of the game who cares? SHIP THEM OUT!!! :o

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yes, I am responisble :P but honestly - stupid laws are responsible. corrupt UK political caste + sheeple who vote them

Bright hard working people will always migrate to areas with high levels of economic activity to improve their quality of life. This has happened throughout the centuries and unless countries take the actions of other countries such as Australia it will long continue.

My local rural area could not provide me with the quality of work I require so I relocated. I have since taken on a mortgage reducing the housing stock for the locals, so I am as much a part of the problem.

I have friends living in France, Australia, Hong Kong and the United States so I do not see a problem with economic migration. I abhor those who come to Britain to claim benefits as I have never claimed a benefit in my life and I am sure many economic migrants feel the same.

The housing problem is now so bad that people are selling off their gardens to make huge amounts of money. I can not be too disparaging about this practice as my Father did the same in 1999.

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We have a rising population, largely due to immigration, the more people there are the more pressure there is on housing. Whoever said more people are leaving than arriving is very wide of the mark, even the official figures show many more thousands arrive than leave.

Of course immigration is not the sole reason for the housing shortage nor is it the fault of immigrants who just want to better themselves. But to argue it doesn't have an effect is fallacy, we can't even build enough houses for the people currently here, so to have the population rising by 1m or so every five years isn't exactly helping on the housing shortage front like it or not.

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Guest AuntJess
In a word.... no. More people are LEAVING than arriving.

Plus most of the eastern europeans aren't renting a house each, they are sleep 3 to a bed in sheds in order to maximise their earnings.

Put simply, they can't afford to rent a house on their wages!

Immigration is a smokecrean to cover up the fact that we have plenty of houses, they are all stood empty in the hands of BTL scumbags who are destroying the economy.

Mr BTL: Get out of our way so we can be productive.

It says something different here.Have things changed in the last 6 or so months?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6109230.stm

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The UK is over-populated. However until the floodgates were opened the population was gently falling and would eventually have reached a sustainable level, ie a level where we could feed ourselves, have enough water, road space and recreational spaces.

Unfortunately New Labour realised there was a danger of houseprices falling and with that their day in the sun being over for good. As a last toss of the dice they let in 5 million immigrants (legal + illegal + asylum.) This staved off the dread day of reckoning at the cost of reducing the quality of life for everyone already in the UK, except the rich.

Immigration has many benefits for the government. It increases GDP which makes the economy look better. Of course it doesn't increase per capita GDP which is the one you actually feel, but that's not a number they care about. Immigrants also drag down wages which keeps inflation artifically low and puts off the day when a serious rise in IR will be required. Immigrants can be expected to vote Labour when the get they right to vote, which should entrench Labour's grip on power.

The cost of immigration for the rest of us is: rising houseprices and rents, falling wages, increased congestion on the roads, longer waiting times at the doctor's and hospital, rising crime and disease, and a lower standard of service in shops.

Taxes will also rise because very few immigrants actually pay their own way. They are likely to be consuming more in public services than they pay in taxes (bearing in mind we're paying the dole for the person who would otherwsie have their job.) They also make extensive use of free services: education, medical, libraries and of subsidised services: trains, tubes and buses.

Remember we have 5 million people in this country who are out of work, of working age, and claiming benefits. Headline unemployment is less than 1 million but that figure is bogus and excludes many categories of dole-monger. Paying those people to be idle while immigrants come in to take our housing and cut our wages is a mug's game.

However, it is good for the government. ;)

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In a word.... no. More people are LEAVING than arriving.

Not actually true. A lot of right-wing propaganda does seem to conveniently ignore the fact that thousands of people are leaving the UK, but in fact there is a net influx of around 185,000 people per year (in 2005). For reference, in the same year there were 722,500 births and 502,599 deaths recorded in the UK.

Here are the migration numbers from the ONS, which is about as free from spin as it's possible to get without actually going out and counting people yourself.

The majority of immigrants come here with no capital and thus tend to live in rented accommodation. Their impact on the housing market is pretty insignificant, I'd say, except in as much as they all too often mop up the "low end" of the rental market.

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The majority of immigrants come here with no capital and thus tend to live in rented accommodation. Their impact on the housing market is pretty insignificant, I'd say, except in as much as they all too often mop up the "low end" of the rental market.

If they occupy housing then it doesn't matter whether they rent or buy it - the economic effect is the same: rising costs for the rest of us. It's called the law of supply and demand.

As far as inflow vs outflow goes it's worth bearing in mind that immigrants typically arrive in the UK destitute and expect to make their money here, while British emmigrants depart flush with money (pensions often) and spend it in the economies of rural France or Spain. They are acting as conduits of money from the UK to foreign lands and being retired don't take jobs from the locals. That's a very different thing from the immigration we have. They also don't take crime and disease with them. I think you'll find British people don't form 10% of the jail population in France or Spain.

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