Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum

Andrew Marr's History Of Modern Britain


Guest Cletus VanDamme

Recommended Posts

Guest Cletus VanDamme

Anyone catch this last night?

Eerie parallels with what's happening now. Harold Wilson seemed very Blair-like, inviting pop stars to number 10, huge rise in living standards, the 'white heat' of technology, swinging London etc. Hard to imagine that a few years later we had constant blackouts, 3-day week and Britain bankcrupt.

I remember plenty of power cuts when I was a kid in the early 70s, but was it really that bad? Last night's programme made Britain seem like Albania!

Will Cameron get in and suffer the same fate as Heath, to be replaced by a minority Labour govt under Brown (just as Callahan, Wilson's exchequer-turned short-lived PM)?

Looks like next week's programme will be essential viewing - covers the late 70s, thatcher, the 80s boom.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Bart of Darkness
I remember plenty of power cuts when I was a kid in the early 70s, but was it really that bad? Last night's programme made Britain seem like Albania!

The grainy 16mm film stock (now faded with age) doesn't help much. Makes everything look drab and colourless.

1976 was apparently the best ever year for quaility of life.

Link.

Note to the materially obsessed, quality of life. Y'know, being happy. Take a look around any UK high street today. Have you ever seen such a miserable, stressed out bunch in your life?

I bet they're happier in Albania too.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Note to the materially obsessed, quality of life. Y'know, being happy. Take a look around any UK high street today. Have you ever seen such a miserable, stressed out bunch in your life?

I'll second this. I had the joy of walking through Nottingham city centre this morning, and everyone I saw had - as our northern friends would say - a face like a slapped tw*t.

Link to post
Share on other sites
The grainy 16mm film stock (now faded with age) doesn't help much. Makes everything look drab and colourless.

I spent years trying to figure out why pre-80s stuff looked so old when shot outside! But I agree, it makes the subjects look much older than it is, when most of the events are still fresh in a lot of people's minds.

Link to post
Share on other sites
I spent years trying to figure out why pre-80s stuff looked so old when shot outside! But I agree, it makes the subjects look much older than it is, when most of the events are still fresh in a lot of people's minds.

I think the fashions of the time give archive footage a rather weird slant.It was all that long hair and a mis-match of colours.Best captured in the film Wicker Man (1973)I always get a feeling of deja vu seeing those kids with feather cuts and purple trousers because that was me too in 1973.

Edited by crashmonitor
Link to post
Share on other sites
I spent years trying to figure out why pre-80s stuff looked so old when shot outside! But I agree, it makes the subjects look much older than it is, when most of the events are still fresh in a lot of people's minds.

Yes, there was a point in the programme where the archive footage seemed to improve dramatically in quality, with the Iron Lady appearing in clear glorious technicolour, which I'm sure hasn't hurt her legacy, even perhaps in subconscious terms.

The series is required viewing for me as it fills in so many gaps in my political knowledge. Thatcher's battle against emboldened Unions now makes more sense to me within the context of how much of a failure Babs Castle presided over in her failed showdown.

And I agree the parallels between Blair's Britain (or Fantasy Island if you prefer) and Wilson's World are amazing, and somewhat frightening.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Bart of Darkness
I spent years trying to figure out why pre-80s stuff looked so old when shot outside! But I agree, it makes the subjects look much older than it is, when most of the events are still fresh in a lot of people's minds.

It makes a hell of a difference doesn't it? For some reason, the early 70s also tends to look very brown/beige in old news reports, possibly due to the fact that some colour dyes in the film stock have faded more than others.

Use of portable video (which doesn't suffer from the fading problem, although tapes can end up scratched) only really started to take over in the second half of the 70s, once the cameras started to become more portable.

I have to keep telling younger friends that things weren't quite as drab as that back then, in fact the early 70s were a bit too colourful if you look at some of the fashions.

I think the fashions of the time give archive footage a rather weird slant.

It was certainly a very strange period of extremes, some of the hairstyles looked very odd indeed, even only a few years later.

Link to post
Share on other sites
It makes a hell of a difference doesn't it? For some reason, the early 70s also tends to look very brown/beige in old news reports, possibly due to the fact that some colour dyes in the film stock have faded more than others.

Use of portable video (which doesn't suffer from the fading problem, although tapes can end up scratched) only really started to take over in the second half of the 70s, once the cameras started to become more portable.

I have to keep telling younger friends that things weren't quite as drab as that back then, in fact the early 70s were a bit too colourful if you look at some of the fashions.

It was certainly a very strange period of extremes, some of the hairstyles looked very odd indeed, even only a few years later.

Whats the 2000's going to look like in 3o years. Have the chinese provided us with fade free recording media or is it as cheap shit as the rest of the stuff they make for us.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Bart of Darkness
Whats the 2000's going to look like in 3o years. Have the chinese provided us with fade free recording media or is it as cheap shit as the rest of the stuff they make for us.

I think a lot of it depends on how and in what format it is stored. Film uses organic materials in its construction and for that reason needs to be stored very carefully to prevent degradation.

Video doesn't use photographic dyes, so fading isn't a problem. And now that we have recordings created and stored in digital video format we should be able to look back at 2007 in all its pristine glory (no doubt I'll be saying "ah, those were the good old days. You could buy a house for a mere £200,000 back then, and the chavs on every street corner, they were much nicer than today's kids).

Link to post
Share on other sites

To be fair Andrew Marr has gone up in my estimation. Up to now he has been a pretty poor interviewer, his cosy chat with Brown a few months ago was a joke.

However, I consider this series absolutely first class. A lot of news from that time has been revealed. The bit I found most interesting was how Harold Wilson stood up to the US in refusing to send our troops to Vietnam. I seem to remember that Australian forces were sent there to fight alongside the Americans. It's a pity Tony Blair did not take a lesson from history and do likewise with Iraq.

Link to post
Share on other sites
To be fair Andrew Marr has gone up in my estimation. Up to now he has been a pretty poor interviewer, his cosy chat with Brown a few months ago was a joke.

However, I consider this series absolutely first class. A lot of news from that time has been revealed. The bit I found most interesting was how Harold Wilson stood up to the US in refusing to send our troops to Vietnam. I seem to remember that Australian forces were sent there to fight alongside the Americans. It's a pity Tony Blair did not take a lesson from history and do likewise with Iraq.

Well I can just remember the 70's as I just started work and there always seemed to be some econominc or political crisis. Still Mott the Hoople and Bowie were in the charts.

I can recall the 3 day week and working in office powered by torch light (pre computer).

Seems unthinkable now. Labours rule came to a shambolic end in the late 70's with the "winter of discontent" and Jim Callaghans famous phrase "crisis what crisis."

I've also enjoyed this series, though sad I seem to have missed the last one.

The post war period was interesting with the "export or die" policies of the day. Had no choice, everything Britain made had to be exported, and the home market demand was repressed due to constant balance of payments crisis. Can't help but feel we should deflate and encourage a lot more saving now, in order to build up overseas investments and start correcting the trade deficit.

Our trade deficit widened to £4.5bn in March, it hardly gets any news coverage any more. I'm sure this really matters.

Link to post
Share on other sites
who will be the noughties arthur scargill?

Say what you like, at least back then, men had balls to stand up for themselves and their livelyhoods.

What have you got now, sheep!

A quote from Andrew Marr from the series sums working people now.

People wandering around the battlefield, looking for someone to surrender to.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Bart of Darkness
Say what you like, at least back then, men had balls to stand up for themselves and their livelyhoods.

What have you got now, sheep!

Looking back at the 70s and early/mid-80s, it does seem to be a much more politicised time than now.

With Labour post-1979 becoming considerably more left-wing and the Tories very much more right wing, there seemed much more of a real difference between the two main parties, unlike the "choice" betwen David Blair and Tony Cameron. The schism was so great that there was a real need for a less extreme alternative to Labour, hence the rise of the SDP.

More people belonged to trade unions (I've never been in one myself) which meant that politics was very much a part of their working lives.

There is an entire generation who have never belonged to a union and have never flexed any industrial muscule.

It's hard to imagine something like the 84/85 miner's strike going on today. Not only would people be too apathetic, they could much more easily be replaced by cheap imported labour.

Link to post
Share on other sites
who will be the noughties arthur scargill?

Yes so prehaps the union power possibly went a bit over the top in the late 70 early 80s' period.

But Mrs Thatchers union reforms went a bit far.

Remember our history,back in the19th century it was the trade union movement that largely took average Joe out of the dirt,big buisiness back then argued that to pay better wage and give workers better standards would ruin them .But Britain went on to lead the industrial revolution.

I believe today trade unionism is basically a movement that is vital to society to mantain a balance to help maintain the rights of Mr average against faceless companies that will always use competition as an excuss for a chase to the bottom in wages and conditions of the workforce while showing shameless hypocrisy in the way they the ellite few reward themselves.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest AuntJess
Sing-along

There's only one Arthur Scargill

There's only one Arthur Scargill

There's only one Arthur Scargill

There's only one Arthur Scar-----gill

And one was more than enough, thankyou! ;)

Link to post
Share on other sites

It amazes me still how the anti union propaganda has won the day. Most average people have no real understanding of the history of the trades union movement or of the good things it has been capable of.

There is no unity in the workplace any more.

Every man for himself, up to his eyeballs in debt, no sense of community, do what the boss says or he will just get somebody else, better not ask for a pay rise, can't leave because of the debt, better just take what they offer, go to work - come home - watch tv - go to work - come home - watch tv - go to work - come home - watch tv......

Slavery can take many forms, it doesn't have to be at the end of a whip. Free Market capitalism demanded a compliant workforce, looks like it has got what it needs.

F

Link to post
Share on other sites

One interesting aspect of Marr's programme is how narrow his coverage is. The whole programme on the 60s/early 70s concentrated on workers/unions and the government. As if that was all there was to the country.

While the unionised workers in the then-nationalised industries were busy taking on the government, the professional/middle classes were enjoying their (comparatively) well-paid jobs and cementing their hold on the housing stock. Then they voted Conservative, the results of which (under Thatcher/Major/Blair - who is a Thatcher-style conservative) has been that they've been under-taxed and have benefitted from high real interest rates (ie rates paid on savings are higher than inflation). Social mobility has now ground to a halt but they're OK as they've secured their position.

Meanwhile the workers effectively cut their own throats.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Anyone catch this last night?

Eerie parallels with what's happening now. Harold Wilson seemed very Blair-like, inviting pop stars to number 10, huge rise in living standards, the 'white heat' of technology, swinging London etc. Hard to imagine that a few years later we had constant blackouts, 3-day week and Britain bankcrupt.

I remember plenty of power cuts when I was a kid in the early 70s, but was it really that bad? Last night's programme made Britain seem like Albania!

Will Cameron get in and suffer the same fate as Heath, to be replaced by a minority Labour govt under Brown (just as Callahan, Wilson's exchequer-turned short-lived PM)?

Looks like next week's programme will be essential viewing - covers the late 70s, thatcher, the 80s boom.

I agree with your comments above but I thought there were more parellels with Eden and the Suez Crisis. Somehow sitting in an office planning an illegal war has a ring of familiarity about it. This is not mentioned in the programme but when Eden was Lord Privy Seal he was against any treaty with Mussolini and fascist Italy due to its actions in Abyssinia and in return was well liked by the British public but history has shown he later renounced his principles and became a pariah due to Suez. I think this is how history will view Blair but instead of colluding with France he colluded with the US against Iraq.

Who says history does not repeat itself?

Link to post
Share on other sites
It amazes me still how the anti union propaganda has won the day. Most average people have no real understanding of the history of the trades union movement or of the good things it has been capable of.

There is no unity in the workplace any more.

Every man for himself, up to his eyeballs in debt, no sense of community, do what the boss says or he will just get somebody else, better not ask for a pay rise, can't leave because of the debt, better just take what they offer, go to work - come home - watch tv - go to work - come home - watch tv - go to work - come home - watch tv......

Slavery can take many forms, it doesn't have to be at the end of a whip. Free Market capitalism demanded a compliant workforce, looks like it has got what it needs.

F

spot on. but communist china has also achieved that. there is a very interesting trend going on whereby countries like china liberalise their economies whilst keeping the strong state control over private lives and the western trend (specifically US and UK ) to maintain their liberal economies and increase state control over private lives,.

its almost as if the 2 systems of chinese communism and western neo-liberal capitalism were merging.

a horrible third way between capitalism and communism is evolving in theses advanced economies.

there are so many similarities between the systems someone ought to write a book on it,

Link to post
Share on other sites
who will be the noughties arthur scargill?

I think future conflicts are far more likely to be along ethnic/religious lines than anachronistic class identity boundaries. You can see this trend already with the way the trots of the SWP have had to throw their lot in with reactionary fundamentalist Islam to form Respect.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.