Central London Ea Admits Business "difficult"

[Rachman]

Like £150k jobs grow on trees......wise up. In the real world you need rare skills and qualifications to get paid that. In bubble-world you need the right accent and an elitist attitude.

I used to work in the City so you don't need to tell me what it is like. Smart people, sure. But I've met smarter in other walks of life doing much more challenging things for less money.

The City is just a well connected elite class taking advantage while they can. Sadly many of them (you included it seems) actually believe the hype.

And therefore you think most of these people have accents and elitist attitude. I also agree there are a lot of smart people who don't chase money - and given the socially beneficial stuff a lot of them do, thank God for that.

However, the City is not just well connected people taking advantage whilst they can.

I am a not thick (I think) transactional lawyer. I do have my straight As from when it was worth something, my Oxbridge degree in a real subject and 10 years experience doing international corporate finance and private equity. Do I have a posh accent, you'd only think so if you were from Barnsley or Skelmersdale, my dad's from a council estate and my mum's from an immigrant miner's family. Does that make me a lapdog at the table of the idle rich, or just a tool of their tyranny.

£150K jobs do not grow on trees, they never did, but the money is there and the market's global, not just London - I could off to the Middle East, Hong Kong or Tokyo and [probably] up my net income significantly, they are crying out for people - or are all of them going to die on their @rses too ?

Did you do transactional or dealing work or were you IT or support/back office - that makes a world of difference to your perceptions of what people do and what they are worth ?

As for believing hype, I prefer to think I am not believing the hype AND not deluding myself as to where it will go (unlike a number of people here who are to an extent living in cloud cuckoo land).

Edited June 5, 2007 by Rachman

[tinecu]

EA based in West End finally admitted that despite all the supposed City bonuses, London as eternal fountain of money etc, there is not an endless queue of buyers willing to pay any price for even the tiniest of spaces, although he did insist there is a shortage of decent, London property, which is probably true. London can and will fall IMHO...

S.

Hmm.. Home.co.uk lists a staggering 18,468 estate agents

offices all grown fatter over the last 10 years. When the crash comes how many will be left? IMHO the reduction will mirror the extent of house price falls in real terms....about 25% ...blimey that's a lot of jobs if you think there are maybe 4 people in each office...perhaps about 20,000 EA related jobs to go!! I fear that not many tears will be shed though...

[jonpo]

I think the point is that credit has never been cheaper. where can it go from here? when deals start to go sour that pipeline will evaporate like butane on a hot stove.

It takes a turn for the worse and suddenly those 1Million plus assets are going to be difficult to shift... Im sure you wouldn't get the chop in a down turn but maybe the guy next to you on 150K could..... suddenly the market cant support 500K of debt. the debt has to go some where. he tries to find a new job but there just isn't the businesss out there. eventually he capitulates and puts his house on the market etc etc.

its all relative though and just another market If you can get paid 250KGBP pa then fair play to you the market has been kind. Seriously though in international terms If i'm looking at paying $500,000 for some dude Id better be getting my moneys worth

[Andy Jones]

Like £150k jobs grow on trees......wise up. In the real world you need rare skills and qualifications to get paid that. In bubble-world you need the right accent and an elitist attitude.

I used to work in the City so you don't need to tell me what it is like. Smart people, sure. But I've met smarter in other walks of life doing much more challenging things for less money.

The City is just a well connected elite class taking advantage while they can. Sadly many of them (you included it seems) actually believe the hype.

Give this chippy socialist b0110cks a rest mate.

The only people I know in the City on 6 figures have all got Firsts from decent universities. Their earnings are large but its a global marketplace and they can earn similar in many different places across the globe. Hell, you can be on 6 figures just by being the Chief Exec of the local Council these days. £100k is peanuts if there isn't a big pensions + health + Audi S4.

If there is a HPC and recession (the two go hand in hand) I'd rather be the City market specialist than the £22k a year average grey man with some offshoreable job or indeed their miserable life.

ANDY

Edited June 6, 2007 by Andy Jones

[Deny]

Give this chippy socialist b0110cks a rest mate.

The only people I know in the City on 6 figures have all got Firsts from decent universities. Their earnings are large but its a global marketplace and they can earn similar in many different places across the globe. Hell, you can be on 6 figures just by being the Chief Exec of the local Council these days. £100k is peanuts if there isn't a big pensions + health + Audi S4.

If there is a HPC and recession (the two go hand in hand) I'd rather be the City market specialist than the £22k a year average grey man with some offshoreable job or indeed their miserable life.

ANDY

Come down my local spouting cr@p like that and I guarantee someone will knock your teeth out.

£100k is an OBSCENE amount of money, and no amount of graft justifies such a ridiculous wage.

I'd be delighted with a £22k wage for my job, it'd be a 5 grand payrise for a start! Although Brown would just rob it all.

[Wait & See]

Give this chippy socialist b0110cks a rest mate.

The only people I know in the City on 6 figures have all got Firsts from decent universities. Their earnings are large but its a global marketplace and they can earn similar in many different places across the globe. Hell, you can be on 6 figures just by being the Chief Exec of the local Council these days. £100k is peanuts if there isn't a big pensions + health + Audi S4.

If there is a HPC and recession (the two go hand in hand) I'd rather be the City market specialist than the £22k a year average grey man with some offshoreable job or indeed their miserable life.

ANDY

And I thought all the YUPPIES were dead, but still we get a new generation of them crowing the same old sh*t from the 80's -

"Greed is good - the great unwashed can f*ck off and die."

The world does not revolve around you Andy (even if you do think you are better than 99% of the population), in time you may learn this.

[Rachman]

Come down my local spouting cr@p like that and I guarantee someone will knock your teeth out.

£100k is an OBSCENE amount of money, and no amount of graft justifies such a ridiculous wage.

I'd be delighted with a £22k wage for my job, it'd be a 5 grand payrise for a start! Although Brown would just rob it all.

So, if you are responsible for making sure, say the pension fund of 400,000 people (and their families) is invested properly or if you are the person who makes the decision that could put your firm under (with say 20,000 employees and their families onto the dole), you think they should be paid £25K a year (or whatever).

£100K is £5,600 a month net, give or take. I am not sure you have any experience of the stress and hassle people have to go through to get it (note, I am not saying people who don't earn that don't have lots of stress too), the hours that tend to have to go in, the 3 years plus of vocational study when they are not earning, the years of working 70 hours plus a week for basic wages. Do you think it's just all Gordon Gekko and a night in Boujis (godawful tacky place that it is) country ? The money is as much payment for the sacrifices you make, the 2am phone calls, the all nighters in the office, the cancelling holidays to go to work as you are packing your case for a family holiday, the weekends you could not make plans for as it is about paying for your abilities to do the job better than most - many people simply won't show that level of commitment (it's just a job) and if their job does not require special (relatively rare) skillsets or experience to do it, I am afraid they won't get the money. It's selling your soul now to secure your and your family's future (there are rare people who get it spot on, the money and the family life, but they are fairly few and far between).

You may be delighted with £22K for your job, but I suggest you don't work or have to be committed to half the hours a week say an investment banker does and you don't have to be 'available for work' all the time (save for being on the odd standby or being a fireman etc. (which are relatively unusual circs)).

When I worked for £4 an hour, the people I worked with had the same mentality - I work for my wages and nothing more and I will do it till I am 65 - none of them thought anyone else deserved more - I sat there thinking, God get me out of here, let me push myself, I am only here to fund next year at university...

As for £100K not being a lot, it's good money, BUT it's not excessive, particularly given the number of joke public sector jobs that are getting up and around this figure (especially with pensions chucked in) with far less accountability. If the people make the money, pay them the money. If they don't, they are out on their jacksy, with no unionised protection or layers of bureaucracy to protect them.

[Guest Cletus VanDamme]

£100k is peanuts if there isn't a big pensions + health + Audi S4.

Unfortunately this is the prevailing 'loadsamoney' attitude within much of the media and political elites. 'Everyone's earning at least 100K these days, and those that aren't must be the Eastern Europeans or the cleaners who are living my BTLs, so all is fine and dandy', and is precisely why the country is heading for a big fall at some point.

Fortunately, most people I know don't bang on about their salaries. Most people I know are getting by OK. My favourite people to spend time with are those in the most modest jobs and incomes. I know a few people who probably earn, as couples, 100-200K, but I find them strangely soulless and they have that slightly crazed, 'I'm on the make' look in their eyes.

[Deny]

So, if you are responsible for making sure, say the pension fund of 400,000 people (and their families) is invested properly or if you are the person who makes the decision that could put your firm under (with say 20,000 employees and their families onto the dole), you think they should be paid £25K a year (or whatever).

£100K is £5,600 a month net, give or take. I am not sure you have any experience of the stress and hassle people have to go through to get it (note, I am not saying people who don't earn that don't have lots of stress too), the hours that tend to have to go in, the 3 years plus of vocational study when they are not earning, the years of working 70 hours plus a week for basic wages. Do you think it's just all Gordon Gekko and a night in Boujis (godawful tacky place that it is) country ? The money is as much payment for the sacrifices you make, the 2am phone calls, the all nighters in the office, the cancelling holidays to go to work as you are packing your case for a family holiday, the weekends you could not make plans for as it is about paying for your abilities to do the job better than most - many people simply won't show that level of commitment (it's just a job) and if their job does not require special (relatively rare) skillsets or experience to do it, I am afraid they won't get the money. It's selling your soul now to secure your and your family's future (there are rare people who get it spot on, the money and the family life, but they are fairly few and far between).

You may be delighted with £22K for your job, but I suggest you don't work or have to be committed to half the hours a week say an investment banker does and you don't have to be 'available for work' all the time (save for being on the odd standby or being a fireman etc. (which are relatively unusual circs)).

When I worked for £4 an hour, the people I worked with had the same mentality - I work for my wages and nothing more and I will do it till I am 65 - none of them thought anyone else deserved more - I sat there thinking, God get me out of here, let me push myself, I am only here to fund next year at university...

As for £100K not being a lot, it's good money, BUT it's not excessive, particularly given the number of joke public sector jobs that are getting up and around this figure (especially with pensions chucked in) with far less accountability. If the people make the money, pay them the money. If they don't, they are out on their jacksy, with no unionised protection or layers of bureaucracy to protect them.

Without the vast armies of wage slaves to prop them up, these £100k a year plus monkeys would be NOTHING. Ultimately othing gets done without graft. I have a 2.1 in Maths (gizza job!), but I live in Devon, work to live, and have always hated the idea of commercialism (basically the pursuit of money). Consequently I have had to work a lot of hours for little pay to put food on the table and a roof over my head, having to put up with management pricks in fancy suits talking buzzword b0ll0cks, imposing their ideas and gobsh1te on me so that they can pay me less to produce more, then they take the credit for it. Not one has ever had the slightest inkling of what real graft is, because they've never done it.

BTW a random process of stock picking will often produce better returns than a fund manager - they ain't special at all - the last thing I'd do if I wanted to make money investing (which I wouldn't - where's the honesty in that?) is give it to a sharp-talking flash g1t in a suit who'll just cream off the top and feed me excuses and bullsh1t.

And its all these management tools that have stolen any chance of me ever owning a house where I live, because of their greed and stupidity.

[Andy Jones]

Am I bovvered?

Keep making excuses. You're poor and angry.

ANDY

[Deny]

Am I bovvered?

Keep making excuses. You're poor and angry.

ANDY

Is that the best you've got?

[Gone baby gone]

Am I bovvered?

Keep making excuses. You're poor and angry.

ANDY

At least he's not poor and stupid, like you

[Deny]

Just ignore the wind-up merchant, he'll go away when he's bored.

And no-one will shed a tear when he dies friendless.

[Gone baby gone]

Fortunately, most people I know don't bang on about their salaries. Most people I know are getting by OK. My favourite people to spend time with are those in the most modest jobs and incomes. I know a few people who probably earn, as couples, 100-200K, but I find them strangely soulless and they have that slightly crazed, 'I'm on the make' look in their eyes.

I agree, and the more money they make, the more they appear to want to brag talk about it, or their latest car, or their latest holiday, etc. Sad, souless individuals who seem to have lost sight of what being alive is about (or maybe they never got it).

[Andy Jones]

1st class honours and off with my mates in 3 hrs surfing in Cornwall.

So guess again.

Keep dreaming about that detached house.

ANDY

[Guest Popalot]

Am I bovvered?

Keep making excuses. You're poor and angry.

ANDY

Andy, perhaps when the "boring grey little 22k worker" helps mend your visage after the next time you get beaten up by any reasonable person you will learn a small amount of humility. I doubt it though. A man with so little imagination that he actually uses his real nerdy name as an avatar.... not much hope. Keep relying on your money to prop you up, there's a good lad, and tell Rachman to do the same.

[TTID]

Why do people have to live in the past. The world as we know it is not the same as it was 10, 20 or 30 years ago. 3x earnings is not a one glove fits all thing either. Property will never go back to 3x joint average earnings.

I agree current multiples are getting silly (HPI will tail off and only drop should their be a recession) but don't think we will ever go back to 150k semi's (3x average salaries?)

Don't be ridiculous! All it would take would be an Act of Parliament and no property would ever be mortgaged for borrowings over the level set by Parliament.

We don't live in a laissez faire, Randian free market. We British are a nation of tinkers. We can't resist trying to fettle the beast.

If there is enough political will for 3x average salaries, that's what we'll get. While there continues to be a political will to tolerate ridiculous lending, ridiculous lending is what we will get.

Furthermore, the lending system, like all elements of the market, runs in cycles. People will pay what the banks permit them to pay. When the banks turn of the taps, the multiples will fall.

We may find ourselves in a situation where the average person can't compete with a foreign billionaire hoovering up all of the housing stock.

We may find ourselves in a situation where a political party makes hay out of demonising such individuals and compulsorily purchases all of that housing stock at a discount.

Anything could happen.

[Badger]

1st class honours and off with my mates in 3 hrs surfing in Cornwall.

The zip goes at the back

[Deny]

1st class honours and off with my mates in 3 hrs surfing in Cornwall.

So guess again.

Keep dreaming about that detached house.

ANDY

I hope you have the brains to keep your braying mouth to yourself , the Cornish are even less keen on fancy pr1cks like you than us Devonians.

Edited June 6, 2007 by Deny

[Rachman]

Without the vast armies of wage slaves to prop them up, these £100k a year plus monkeys would be NOTHING. Ultimately othing gets done without graft. I have a 2.1 in Maths (gizza job!), but I live in Devon, work to live, and have always hated the idea of commercialism (basically the pursuit of money). Consequently I have had to work a lot of hours for little pay to put food on the table and a roof over my head, having to put up with management pricks in fancy suits talking buzzword b0ll0cks, imposing their ideas and gobsh1te on me so that they can pay me less to produce more, then they take the credit for it. Not one has ever had the slightest inkling of what real graft is, because they've never done it.

BTW a random process of stock picking will often produce better returns than a fund manager - they ain't special at all - the last thing I'd do if I wanted to make money investing (which I wouldn't - where's the honesty in that?) is give it to a sharp-talking flash g1t in a suit who'll just cream off the top and feed me excuses and bullsh1t.

I agree about no graft and you don't get much (save for the odd lucky sod). Thing is, you know the money in Devon is pants, but it's your choice to live there, you also know that if you moved to London, you could make a LOT more money in a few years then come back with that in your pocket and be able to live more comfortably back in Devon for the rest of your life, you'd just have to compromise now to get it. But you know that. Myself, I chose to take the shekels - I should just say that real graft is not always about getting dirty or just long hours, I watch the pressure some of those traders are under - it's no wonder they are heart attacks waiting to happen and why they need to get so out of it the second they get out of the office.

[Andy Jones]

Just keep your mouth to yourself about your millions, the Cornish are even less keen on fancy pr1cks like you than us Devonians.

PS Hope you don't get burgled while you're away.

Class. Threats of violence and theft.

As I'm both handy with my shovel-like fists and fully insured I shall rest easy.

If this crash is anything like the last one then you'll find those w@n8ers you hate so much in the City will lose their jobs. Spend a year chilling in Thailand. Then come back and set up a business or pursue some other fulfilling life pursuit for the rest of their days in financial security. Your gloating at the coming crunch is unwarranted.

Your caricature of how the high earners are all posh gits with no lives and no brains whilst the average earners are all salt of the earth wise men with real friends is so shallow and envy based that it is laughable.

ANDY

[Wait & See]

Class. Threats of violence and theft.

As I'm both handy with my shovel-like fists and fully insured I shall rest easy.

If this crash is anything like the last one then you'll find those w@n8ers you hate so much in the City will lose their jobs. Spend a year chilling in Thailand. Then come back and set up a business or pursue some other fulfilling life pursuit for the rest of their days in financial security. Your gloating at the coming crunch is unwarranted.

Your caricature of how the high earners are all posh gits with no lives and no brains whilst the average earners are all salt of the earth wise men with real friends is so shallow and envy based that it is laughable.

ANDY

Surfs Up Andy. Now get tae fu*k.

[Scooter]

Without the vast armies of wage slaves to prop them up, these £100k a year plus monkeys would be NOTHING. Ultimately othing gets done without graft. I have a 2.1 in Maths (gizza job!), but I live in Devon, work to live, and have always hated the idea of commercialism (basically the pursuit of money). Consequently I have had to work a lot of hours for little pay to put food on the table and a roof over my head, having to put up with management pricks in fancy suits talking buzzword b0ll0cks, imposing their ideas and gobsh1te on me so that they can pay me less to produce more, then they take the credit for it. Not one has ever had the slightest inkling of what real graft is, because they've never done it.

BTW a random process of stock picking will often produce better returns than a fund manager - they ain't special at all - the last thing I'd do if I wanted to make money investing (which I wouldn't - where's the honesty in that?) is give it to a sharp-talking flash g1t in a suit who'll just cream off the top and feed me excuses and bullsh1t.

And its all these management tools that have stolen any chance of me ever owning a house where I live, because of their greed and stupidity.

Deny,

You have been wound up by some fairly crass comments about wealth and salary but your response is loaded with bizarre and unreal stereotypes as those from other people. Do you actually know anyone who works in finance? If you have a maths degree, you could get a City job maybe but if you don't want one fine but why attack those who do? It doesn't sound like you are contributing much to economy at present-it is the City that is paying for the new hospitals, schools etc. that I guess you might use occasionally.

If you get paid very little for a lot of work and you have a proper degree, maybe you should get a better job (plenty

of things not related to finance and all the things you hate) and stop moaning at people who are doing ok for themselves.

S.

[Deny]

"Class. Threats of violence and theft"

I'm capable of much more, but wouldn't waste them on you

[Andy Jones]

Deny wrote I'm capable of much more, but wouldn't waste them on you

I bet you are. I bet you're so clever that you use an internet message board to make threats against people which if you carried them out would result in the shortest police investigation of all time followed by an open and shut case of premeditation.

If you fancy your chances I'll be stumbling out of Ricky Steins about midnight. Bring your imaginary mates.

ANDY

Edited June 6, 2007 by Andy Jones