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bryanh

Did This Government Engineer Hpi ?

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I wanted to buy a 2 bed house (£65k) in 2000, but because of being on a lowish wage at the time, couldn't. By 2003 and after being promoted etc I was earning more than enough to buy the same house (£74kish) if HPI had run at 3 or 4% yoy.

But the same house now is £140+k and I'm still on a basically the same wage after inflation.

If there was a HPC of 50% tomorrow then that still means I'm at least 4-5 years behind on mortgage payments compared to if I had been able to buy in 2003.

The point I'm getting to is that it means 4-5 years more full-time work, no semi retirement working p/t at B&Q and no chance of early retirement.

If the government did engineer HPI and it could be proved, and in doing so means that people have to work later in life (remember this is your time, and you only get it once) there could be a case for compensation.

What do you reckon?

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the government isn't running things - privately controlled central banks are - they control the money supply (the 'printing presses') that's pushed house/asset prices up globally

they can basically do anything they want and they are doing

the governments role is give the impression of freedom/democracy and keep everybody from revolting...

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Guest mattsta1964
the government isn't running things - privately controlled central banks are - they control the money supply (the 'printing presses') that's pushed house/asset prices up globally

they can basically do anything they want and they are doing

the governments role is give the impression of freedom/democracy and keep everybody from revolting...

Notice how the Conservative Partyy are just copying NuLabour?

No more grammar schools is the latest example.

It seems to me like the NeoConservative movement has crossed the Atlantic because both our foreigh policy and domestic policy exactly mirrors what the NeoCons are doing in the USA......so it seems global government is well and truly on the way.

And now, our main oppostion is just copying what NuLabour has donne for the last 10 years.

So what is the difference between the Tories and Nulab these days?........Absolutely fekk all!

We are sleep walking into a totalitarian state but nobody realises it and in the UK, people still think you are a conspiracy theorist and believe the Royal family are alien lizards. I give up! It's a hopless situation

The only hope for the world now is Ron Paul and I seriously doubt whether the people are savvy enough to realize where we are heading and what the future holds for us.

So it's upto the Americans now..... the people we think are morons....to try turn things around....but I think the battle is lost without a shot being fired. Welcome to the NWO and slavery for the masses.

It is a very depressing situation :(

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Guest mattsta1964
the government isn't running things - privately controlled central banks are - they control the money supply (the 'printing presses') that's pushed house/asset prices up globally

they can basically do anything they want and they are doing

the governments role is give the impression of freedom/democracy and keep everybody from revolting...

Tories' to carry on Bliar reform'

See what I mean!

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Notice how the Conservative Partyy are just copying NuLabour?

No more grammar schools is the latest example.

It seems to me like the NeoConservative movement has crossed the Atlantic because both our foreigh policy and domestic policy exactly mirrors what the NeoCons are doing in the USA......so it seems global government is well and truly on the way.

And now, our main oppostion is just copying what NuLabour has donne for the last 10 years.

So what is the difference between the Tories and Nulab these days?........Absolutely fekk all!

We are sleep walking into a totalitarian state but nobody realises it and in the UK, people still think you are a conspiracy theorist and believe the Royal family are alien lizards. I give up! It's a hopless situation

The only hope for the world now is Ron Paul and I seriously doubt whether the people are savvy enough to realize where we are heading and what the future holds for us.

So it's upto the Americans now..... the people we think are morons....to try turn things around....but I think the battle is lost without a shot being fired. Welcome to the NWO and slavery for the masses.

It is a very depressing situation :(

I have to agree here. The whole situation is a mess the masses are in a coma. You try telling people about the threat of a NWO and they just dismiss you as a crank.

The fact that there is so much evidence that civil liberties are being taken away from us at alarming rate people just do not want to know.

I am starting to think it could be too late to turn this around just because of the shear ignorance of the sheeple.

The problem is the masses are ignorant subservient and in debt just has the global elite want them to be.

George Orwell wrote about this in 1948 in his book titled 1984

see the full film here and see where this society is heading for

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=...q=nineteen+1984

Edited by fiddlethefigures

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I wanted to buy a 2 bed house (£65k) in 2000, but because of being on a lowish wage at the time, couldn't. By 2003 and after being promoted etc I was earning more than enough to buy the same house (£74kish) if HPI had run at 3 or 4% yoy.

But the same house now is £140+k and I'm still on a basically the same wage after inflation.

If there was a HPC of 50% tomorrow then that still means I'm at least 4-5 years behind on mortgage payments compared to if I had been able to buy in 2003.

The point I'm getting to is that it means 4-5 years more full-time work, no semi retirement working p/t at B&Q and no chance of early retirement.

If the government did engineer HPI and it could be proved, and in doing so means that people have to work later in life (remember this is your time, and you only get it once) there could be a case for compensation.

What do you reckon?

Prices were very cheap in 2000. If prices crashed 50% :blink: you will be laughing all the way to the bank in the same way that anybody who bought in 2000 was at the time and now.

Expecting houses to be cheap is a day dream. They may become affordable but if they dropped to 2000 prices without a recession causing mass unemployment everybody could buy them.

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I wanted to buy a 2 bed house (£65k) in 2000, but because of being on a lowish wage at the time, couldn't. By 2003 and after being promoted etc I was earning more than enough to buy the same house (£74kish) if HPI had run at 3 or 4% yoy.

But the same house now is £140+k and I'm still on a basically the same wage after inflation.

If there was a HPC of 50% tomorrow then that still means I'm at least 4-5 years behind on mortgage payments compared to if I had been able to buy in 2003.

The point I'm getting to is that it means 4-5 years more full-time work, no semi retirement working p/t at B&Q and no chance of early retirement.

If the government did engineer HPI and it could be proved, and in doing so means that people have to work later in life (remember this is your time, and you only get it once) there could be a case for compensation.

What do you reckon?

My take on this is that given the number of people that look to buy property in the UK is fairly static then because of trickle down inheritance that inevitably happens over the years it seems fairly logical to experience house prices increasing ahead of salaries.

The UK has historically had a high percentage of owners versus renters (higher than many other EU countries).

The fact that some people get inheritance and pay too much for the house they want, in the street they want, over time encourages all the sales in that street to ask for that inflated amount.

The increase in money supply over the past 10 years has made the situation worse than it was in the 20 or so years before that. The BTL brigade jumped on the bandwagon (not to get rent to cover mortgage but for HPI). People like yourself that didn't get on the bandwagon are now effectively priced out and indeed might never get there unless the whole thing crashes or you inherit some money and get a leg-up into the market.

So, the government did NOT engineer HPI they just sat back and twiddled their fingers so you have no chance for compensation. If anything HPI was "engineered" by peoples greed. The financial sector just helped themselves to a bit of this easy pie.

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Prices were very cheap in 2000. If prices crashed 50% :blink: you will be laughing all the way to the bank in the same way that anybody who bought in 2000 was at the time and now.

Expecting houses to be cheap is a day dream. They may become affordable but if they dropped to 2000 prices without a recession causing mass unemployment everybody could buy them.

?

:blink::blink:

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Everything is engineered; House prices, birth rates, whos healthy and whose not, fashons, the price of gold, stock markets, food supply, everything, even what type of people we like and dislike is fed to us through the media.

All the posts on this thread are correct, we are heading for an Orwellian world where people are looked apon as live-stock.

The only way we can do something about it is to withdraw our labour. The only thing lacking is organisation and comunication. The public are to frightened or lathargic to do anything anyway so we now have a govenment of woolfs, which is what we desurve aparently.

On the up side. There is a masive financial calamity on the horison and a house price crash will only be the start of it. I hope that people will look at there position after the comming storm and realise that our leaders are; incompitant, selfish, greedy deceivers who care not about us, but only for themselfs.

I remember a song from many years ago and one line kept saying over and over "the revolution will not be televised", Think about that.. ;)

While im at it, could we please stop referring to ill informed people as "sheeple". its dehumanising and echoes The great war 2 when Jews were compared to rats. Its never a good sign when humans start being compared to animals because it usualy fortells a slaughter. its easia to kill sheep or rats than it is to kill people. Thank you.

Edited by charliemouse

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They have lined the pockets of lots of companies at the expense of mr and mrs taxpayer - god knows the true extent of what they've done.

I did see Mrs Blair on the airplane steps today looking remarkably like Pippa from One foot in the grave. :)

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I wanted to buy a 2 bed house (£65k) in 2000, but because of being on a lowish wage at the time, couldn't. By 2003 and after being promoted etc I was earning more than enough to buy the same house (£74kish) if HPI had run at 3 or 4% yoy.

But the same house now is £140+k and I'm still on a basically the same wage after inflation.

If there was a HPC of 50% tomorrow then that still means I'm at least 4-5 years behind on mortgage payments compared to if I had been able to buy in 2003.

The point I'm getting to is that it means 4-5 years more full-time work, no semi retirement working p/t at B&Q and no chance of early retirement.

If the government did engineer HPI and it could be proved, and in doing so means that people have to work later in life (remember this is your time, and you only get it once) there could be a case for compensation.

What do you reckon?

There was an article a few months ago, I can't remember the article as I read so many both for leisure and work but it was posted on this forum, with Edward George stating that rates were kept artifically low after 2001 to enable investment via borrowing despite real inflation running at a much higher level. This was offset by lower wage inflation and cheap imports from pacific rim cars and clothing from China.

Edward George stated it was down to Mervyn King to now sort out (I know humerous statement) as he has exacerbated the situation further.

China have currently been in trouble with world economies for keeping the Yuan artificially low but obviously their impact will greater in world circles than the UK.

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I have to agree here. The whole situation is a mess the masses are in a coma. You try telling people about the threat of a NWO and they just dismiss you as a crank.

The fact that there is so much evidence that civil liberties are being taken away from us at alarming rate people just do not want to know.

I am starting to think it could be too late to turn this around just because of the shear ignorance of the sheeple.

The problem is the masses are ignorant subservient and in debt just has the global elite want them to be.

George Orwell wrote about this in 1948 in his book titled 1984

see the full film here and see where this society is heading for

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=...q=nineteen+1984

Not sure if you should edit that bit?

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We are sleep walking into a totalitarian state but nobody realises it

Welcome to the NWO and slavery for the masses.

The whole situation is a mess the masses are in a coma. You try telling people about the threat of a NWO and they just dismiss you as a crank.

The fact that there is so much evidence that civil liberties are being taken away from us at alarming rate people just do not want to know.

I am starting to think it could be too late to turn this around just because of the shear ignorance of the sheeple.

The problem is the masses are ignorant subservient and in debt just has the global elite want them to be.

All the posts on this thread are correct, we are heading for an Orwellian world where people are looked apon as live-stock.

The only way we can do something about it is to withdraw our labour. The only thing lacking is organisation and comunication. The public are to frightened or lathargic to do anything anyway so we now have a govenment of woolfs, which is what we desurve aparently.

On the up side. There is a masive financial calamity on the horison

I was once present at a speech given by the independent MP and former broadcaster, Martin Bell. He said "The moment you take something for granted, you will lose it."

It is vital that we never lose sight of our hard-earned right to freedom. But it is equally vital that we don't lose sight of the fact that we are well off by global and historical standards.

In modern Britain, it is virtually impossible to starve to death, such is the availablility of food and benefits. We are now travelling the world in five or more weeks' holiday a year - 100 years ago you had a week in Blackpool if you were lucky. We are living to 80 and 90 years old, when the natural life span of a human would be nearer 50-60 without the medicine and care we have available. Never before, in fact, has the common man had so much choice and control over his life.

Some of the "civil liberties" that people complain are being "taken away" don't seem all that bad to me - CCTV, speed cameras and the smoking ban actually make it LESS likely I will be killed by muggers, drivers or cancer.

Too many posts seem to feel we would be better off free of government. Just look at Iraq currently - the government does not control the country, and it is a complete mess. Read not only 1984 but also Animal Farm - deposing one regime can lead to a worse one.

The final quote above is "On the up side. There is a massive financial calamity on the horizon." I think that is misplaced hope. Do you really think that in a world where unemployment is rife and debt-laden citizens and their businesses are bankrupted daily, that the average person would be LESS at the mercy of the government?

Never stop fighting for freedom - but be careful what you wish for.

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I wanted to buy a 2 bed house (£65k) in 2000, but because of being on a lowish wage at the time, couldn't. By 2003 and after being promoted etc I was earning more than enough to buy the same house (£74kish) if HPI had run at 3 or 4% yoy.

But the same house now is £140+k and I'm still on a basically the same wage after inflation.

If there was a HPC of 50% tomorrow then that still means I'm at least 4-5 years behind on mortgage payments compared to if I had been able to buy in 2003.

The point I'm getting to is that it means 4-5 years more full-time work, no semi retirement working p/t at B&Q and no chance of early retirement.

If the government did engineer HPI and it could be proved, and in doing so means that people have to work later in life (remember this is your time, and you only get it once) there could be a case for compensation.

What do you reckon?

Two things strike me immediately about your post.

A. The blame culture - is someone else to blame for my current situation?

B. The compensation culture - can I get compensation?

Forget talk of 1984. Welcome to UK circa 2007.

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Guest grumpy-old-man

some very good posts on this thread.

This topic is one that I feel is very significant & the fact that we get called "conspiracy theorists" because we dare to have a differing point of view is very telling of today's mesmerised culture. <_<

They keep the majority fighting with each other by creating division & by doing this people arn't looking at, or talking about, what they should be. people think ID cards are great, when in fact they will be the very thing that aids in the loss of their liberty. :blink:

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The final quote above is "On the up side. There is a massive financial calamity on the horizon." I think that is misplaced hope. Do you really think that in a world where unemployment is rife and debt-laden citizens and their businesses are bankrupted daily, that the average person would be LESS at the mercy of the government?

Never stop fighting for freedom - but be careful what you wish for.

Your right of course. I would never wish such a calamity on anyone and typing "on the up side" before it, diddnt make sense and if i could, i would withdraw those 4 words only, however i do think that even with our compfy lives here in the uk (with ipods, PCs, cars, etc, and as you say, no real risk of starvation) we exist to serve the banks and finance the wastage of govenment folly and averice (millenium dome etc).

Its all very well for someone like yourself to say we have it so good, but what are the latest figures on child poverty? I wander how many children have been aborted because their potential parents were not able to give them a home?

We have hundreds of years of political and social experience in this country but still people feel their lives are pointless and that they are wasting their lives, hence the new "midlife crisis condition". Our young people look at 250,000 pound houses and then at there earning potential and despare.

Its not so great in the uk. It is if your wealthy, but if your not... Dont get sick, dont get old and never be alone because (as prince Andrew once pointed out) people rejoice in others misfortune.

Edited by charliemouse

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Some of the "civil liberties" that people complain are being "taken away" don't seem all that bad to me - CCTV, speed cameras and the smoking ban actually make it LESS likely I will be killed by muggers, drivers or cancer.

No they don't.

In modern Britain, it is virtually impossible to starve to death, such is the availablility of food and benefits. We are now travelling the world in five or more weeks' holiday a year - 100 years ago you had a week in Blackpool if you were lucky. We are living to 80 and 90 years old, when the natural life span of a human would be nearer 50-60 without the medicine and care we have available. Never before, in fact, has the common man had so much choice and control over his life.

You can't excuse the erosion of civil liberties by citing a list of benefits that has been delivered by science and are equally enjoyed in countries that are not being transformed into police states.

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ISome of the "civil liberties" that people complain are being "taken away" don't seem all that bad to me - CCTV, speed cameras and the smoking ban actually make it LESS likely I will be killed by muggers, drivers or cancer.

Too many posts seem to feel we would be better off free of government. Just look at Iraq currently - the government does not control the country, and it is a complete mess. Read not only 1984 but also Animal Farm - deposing one regime can lead to a worse one.

Please show me some proof that speed cameras and CCTV make any difference. Where is the huge fall in crime now we have CCTV everywhere? Please show me the fall road accidents (statistics the government refuses to publish show rises). To many people these look like money spinners for government and thier friends in business.

What sort of democracy is it where only 24% of people want the government?

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You can tell it wasnt Government initiated because it worked :lol:;) Think about it, all the projects all of the time go to french for cat. They couldn't even fluke it imo :unsure:

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Guest grumpy-old-man
Please show me some proof that speed cameras and CCTV make any difference. Where is the huge fall in crime now we have CCTV everywhere? Please show me the fall road accidents (statistics the government refuses to publish show rises). To many people these look like money spinners for government and thier friends in business.

What sort of democracy is it where only 24% of people want the government?

in a nutshell, will it make money.

even police officers acknowlege the fact that putting up upteen speed cameras hasn't made any difference. Please tell me when you have ever seen a camera outside a school, because I haven't

The only ones I see are on roads with no housing on either side or with industrial estates nearby, where you can do 50-60 mph very safely. :ph34r:

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Never before, in fact, has the common man had so much choice and control over his life.

for now there is limited 'freedom' within a defined set of boundries

these will be slowly taken from you as the systems/infrastructure to control is built around you with your consent

rokerfeller was right - people are 'stupid'...

Edited by dnd

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You can't excuse the erosion of civil liberties by citing a list of benefits that has been delivered by science and are equally enjoyed in countries that are not being transformed into police states.

Succinctly put.

Oh, and NO2ID :)

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the government isn't running things - privately controlled central banks are - they control the money supply (the 'printing presses') that's pushed house/asset prices up globally

they can basically do anything they want and they are doing

the governments role is give the impression of freedom/democracy and keep everybody from revolting...

The Bank of England has a monopoly on the issue of banknotes in England and Wales - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_of_England

After reading page 12 Bank of England Act 1946. According to this it states that all capital stock of the BOE was transferred to a person appointed by the treasury to be held in trust. So does this mean the government owns the BOE? http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/about/legislation/act1998.pdf

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I wanted to buy a 2 bed house (£65k) in 2000, but because of being on a lowish wage at the time, couldn't. By 2003 and after being promoted etc I was earning more than enough to buy the same house (£74kish) if HPI had run at 3 or 4% yoy.

But the same house now is £140+k and I'm still on a basically the same wage after inflation.

If there was a HPC of 50% tomorrow then that still means I'm at least 4-5 years behind on mortgage payments compared to if I had been able to buy in 2003.

The point I'm getting to is that it means 4-5 years more full-time work, no semi retirement working p/t at B&Q and no chance of early retirement.

If the government did engineer HPI and it could be proved, and in doing so means that people have to work later in life (remember this is your time, and you only get it once) there could be a case for compensation.

What do you reckon?

One: compensation won’t happen, the whole economy has been built around the debt created on the back of what appears to have been uncontrolled house price inflation*. It is by far the largest economic event that has ever happened, far in excess of £600,000,000,000 has been injected into the economy from this. Oddly not reflected in the inflation figures, still the powers that be must know better.

Two: It would take a direct admission from either a senior member of the current government or someone of authority from within either the MPC or the BOE for any action to be taken.**

Three: If the powers that be did admit that it was deliberate would such criminal action be investigated? I don’t think so and I will explain why:

Mortgage fraud has made up a significant proportion of the housing market to the point where in 2003 1/5 of all outstanding mortgage debt had never had any form of income verification and at that time 1/3rd of all new mortgages were income non verified.

When the serious fraud squad were asked to investigate (by me) they said it was not in the countries best interest.

To put it into perspective: If you went through history in the UK and added together all of the amounts involved in every other instance of serious fraud then it would not add up to a small fraction of the amount of mortgage fraud that even the most conservative estimates consider to have happened during this boom.

Oh yes.

* Uncontrolled? Actually see below.

** They have already admitted to it, see the link in my signature, Lord Edward George’s comments.

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