Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

subsidiser

Europes Shame

Recommended Posts

Headline of the Independent - Europes Shame - referring to Illegal Immigration from Africa.

Is it really?

What about Africas Shame? Why are thousands of people risking their lives to come here?

Leader article Independent Leader

The leader article seems to be saying we should have a more open-door policy. Should we? Why should we?

I'm all for immigration and free movement within the EU. But Africa has to sort its problems out first. Otherwise the differences in opportunity are just too great.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think we'd be helping more if we identified UK policies, companies economic strategies that harm developing countries and end them. Quite often "not doing bad" is ignored in preference of trying to do good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
O

F

F

T

O

P

I

C

Really? Immigration is one of the drivers of population increase, which is keeping demand for housing high. We've discussed population increase before here in this respect. If, as The Independent suggests, we simply have an open door policy for immigration from Africa what will be the effect?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If, as The Independent suggests, we simply have an open door policy for immigration from Africa what will be the effect?

It is an interesting question: would the complete collapse of Western Europe under the weight of a billion African immigrants increase or decrease house prices?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It is an interesting question: would the complete collapse of Western Europe under the weight of a billion African immigrants increase or decrease house prices?

:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It is an interesting question: would the complete collapse of Western Europe under the weight of a billion African immigrants increase or decrease house prices?

Answer -

Increase house prices to astronomical levels.

Relative to wages, which in those circumstances would be at subsistence levels.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It is an interesting question: would the complete collapse of Western Europe under the weight of a billion African immigrants increase or decrease house prices?

Well, if we lost the Gulf Stream, it would mean plenty of frozen building materials for affordable housing in a 'Soylent Green Belt' :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think we'd be helping more if we identified UK policies, companies economic strategies that harm developing countries and end them. Quite often "not doing bad" is ignored in preference of trying to do good.

As HPC is a haven of "Realspeak" as opposed to "Newspeak" shouldn’t we use recovering (as in trying to recover) rather than developing... Or are you of the opinion that it was ever thus, that the masses in Africa were unable to survive without western intervention? In general I hope that those who believe that the status quo in Africa is "nothing to do with us" realise that the tide changes and the world turns. Looking at the constant bleating on HPC about the "transfer of wealth to the boomer generation" it seems as if the twin cudgels of blame, i.e. "the market is right" and "personal culpability overrides external forces (inc. excess credit, immigration etc etc)", are not considered to apply universally or in equal measure.. There is a word that’s oft used to describe this selective application of principal..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africa

(Early civilisations and trade, Pre-colonial exploration, Post-colonial Africa)

How on earth many can square the opinion that recent mass (10 - 50 year max) immigration will have a permanent significant economic, stability threatening effect on life in the UK, with the opinion that the West's past in Africa has no relevance today, is beyond me..

Human Nature... :o Its a b**** isn’t it.. :blink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think we'd be helping more if we identified UK policies, companies economic strategies that harm developing countries and end them. Quite often "not doing bad" is ignored in preference of trying to do good.

Plus, we should have had "regime change" in Zimbabwe, but unfortunately our bombs missed and hit Iraq instead :blink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As HPC is a haven of "Realspeak" as opposed to "Newspeak" shouldn’t we use recovering (as in trying to recover) rather than developing...

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point, but the whole world has been "developing" - a word with wide meaning, but perhaps we can take to mean developing modern standards of living, opportunity and healthcare. Certain parts of the world have been slow to start developing from societies with lifestyles little changed for 1000s of years. Africa - or at least most of it - is one of those places. The Left blame this on the West.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How on earth many can square the opinion that recent mass (10 - 50 year max) immigration will have a permanent significant economic, stability threatening effect on life in the UK

Modern Africa is a disaster zone; bringing the people of modern Africa to Europe en masse will turn Europe into a disaster zone too.

with the opinion that the West's past in Africa has no relevance today, is beyond me..

Britain gave much of Africa the only period of civilisation it's ever had. How anyone can blame us for that is beyond me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Plus, we should have had "regime change" in Zimbabwe, but unfortunately our bombs missed and hit Iraq instead :blink:

We did have 'regime change' there; Mugabe is the regime they got after the evil colonial powers left.

Now, it appears, we're supposed to go back and get rid of him. Today's 'peacekeeper' is just yesterdays 'colonial invader' with a more leftist-friendly name.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shortage of pickers may hit strawberry crop

The Guardian 28 May 07

I normally keep away from these topics (too many loonies around). But I think there may be a slow down in EU immigration.

In a sign that east European migration to Britain may have peaked, the National Farmers' Union has told the immigration minister, Liam Byrne, that the numbers of EU migrants, including Poles, coming to Britain for harvesting jobs has dropped.
Philip Hudson, the NFU's chief horticultural adviser, said that Poles and other east Europeans were now less interested in coming.

"Their standard of living at home has increased more rapidly than anyone could have projected so they are now staying at home," he said. "Other countries, such as the Netherlands, have now opened their borders to them to work."

We were one of only a handful of countries to open unreservedly to the new EU states. That window of opportunity is now coming to a close as the other established EU states can now no longer use 'transitional arrangements' to limit immigration.

There's going to be a lot more competition from our neighbours for that cheap labour force.

Another blip in the growing inflation of food prices to follow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Modern Africa is a disaster zone; bringing the people of modern Africa to Europe en masse will turn Europe into a disaster zone too.

Britain gave much of Africa the only period of civilisation it's ever had. How anyone can blame us for that is beyond me.

So Mr .G are you of the opinion that the masses in Africa were unable to survive without western intervention?

Civilisation is all relative.. All that matters is that they were/are able to look after their own.. Currently it doesn’t look like they can do so.. Are you suggesting that this has always been the case?

People didn’t go to Africa because it was poor but rather because it was rich.. If the inhabitants decided that they wanted to "wait" a further 10000 years before becoming advanced that is their business. In terms of the balance sheet it was the West who gained out of colonialism not Africa. Note that Sweden has a mainly an agrarian culture until about 200 years ago and look at them now.

Given a world without these events it is not unresonable to suggest that the West would not be as rich as it is today and those in Africa would be (at worst) in the position they were in before the West arrived.

The "might is right" argument is the only one which holds water but as I stated before if that is true then stop bleating.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

These types of stories simply make my blood boil.

Why on earth did these 53 people put themselves in this danger in the first place and then expect emergency services or fishing vessels to help them out? Emotional blackmail springs to mind.

"a Maltese plane photographed a crazily overloaded boat in this area carrying 53 Eritreans, several of whom telephoned desperate pleas for help to relatives in London, Italy and Malta."

These are not people escaping tyranny, persecution or in fear for their lives in their home countries, these are people that feel that they are simply exempt from EU border controls and that the rules do not apply to them.

I hate myself for saying this but for people with such little regard for their own lives and their complete selfishness for having others risk their own lives saving them, they reap what they sow I'm afraid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It is an interesting question: would the complete collapse of Western Europe under the weight of a billion African immigrants increase or decrease house prices?

Given that there are less than a billion people living in the whole of Africa, the scenario seems a little unlikely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My take on this story is that its either utter rubbish OR its part of the promotional work being done to make us happy to have more immigrants OR people have decided they don't want to work for peanuts and live in a shed to pick strawberries which will be sold on at 400% profit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While hundreds of thousands are dying every year in Africa from starvation and malaria- and our luverly brand of capitalism turns a blind eye (itz the market seeeeeee Adam Smith an all that grunt grunt oink oink) I just feel that we have the responsibility to assist Africa. Mind you, don't think the government will listen to the likes of me. Come on China - we've been fcukin hopeless so your intervention is better than nothing.

Economic migration out of Africa will not assist development on the continent (though if I was living in some parts of African, I'd be tempted to get out!). The Indy is a pretty warped newspaper so don't worry too much about their 'we're living in a media bubble' insanity.

G

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The NFU are never happy unless their members can employ slave labout. They're nasty, reactionary old farts who don't give a flying **** about workers, or anything beyond their own, and their members bank balances. When the Poles came in , they wanted more Ukranians and Russians. Now they've got their Ukranians and Russians (I know there've been Ukranians and Russians coming in on various agricultural work-permit schemes for over a year), they'll probably want Africans before long - not many poverty striken slavs will stoop so low as to work for the farmers they represent, so soon they'll probably start looking for the most exploitable people on earth - starving Africans (will probably pay them in rotting strawberries ;-))

Gruff (a farmer's son by the way!!!!)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you think about it, if things have always been as bad as they currently are in Africa you wouldnt have needed to capture the slaves.. A fair proportion of them would have, no doubt, come willingly.. Oder :unsure: ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Shortage of pickers may hit strawberry crop

The Guardian 28 May 07

I normally keep away from these topics (too many loonies around). But I think there may be a slow down in EU immigration.

We were one of only a handful of countries to open unreservedly to the new EU states. That window of opportunity is now coming to a close as the other established EU states can now no longer use 'transitional arrangements' to limit immigration.

There's going to be a lot more competition from our neighbours for that cheap labour force.

Another blip in the growing inflation of food prices to follow.

It seems to be true that many of the new EU countries already provide their people with enough good opportunities to stop them having to come here en-masse. But before these countries were even allowed to join the EU they had to make improvements to law making and enforcement, human rights and infrastructure. Furthermore free movement of labour from these countries was not permitted until after they joined the EU.

No one ever dares ask Africa to sort its own act out first. Mention Africa and the whole bleeding heart left starts bleating on about colonialism.

Papers like The Independent should be concentrating their thoughts on getting Africa to improve its record on human rights, law and economic opportunity instead of trying to make its readership feel guilty about a problem that they have no part in.

With the current differences in economic prospects, education and freedom between Africa and Europe their is no possibility of doing anything other than enforcing border controls as strictly as possible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • 356 The Prime Minister stated that there were three Brexit options available to the UK:

    1. 1. Which of the Prime Minister's options would you choose?


      • Leave with the negotiated deal
      • Remain
      • Leave with no deal



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.